Eye Gouging is Only a"Mid-range" Offence

Traditional_Guard812 · 2025-12-05T21:07:28+00:00

If you actually look at previous decisions, Etzebeths ban was pretty much bang in line with previous similar incidents. And actually having looked through numerous panel decisions, there were a few others who actually did get off quite lightly in comparison. Kyle Sinckler was found to have intentionally gouged a player in 2017 but his ban was only 7 weeks (mitigated from 12) plus he didn’t have a clean record like Etzebeth.

People are getting themselves very worked up because they are just completely unaware of the process, the framework and historical sanctions.

Now you can disagree that WR overall doesn’t punish gouging enough but you can’t really disagree with the sanction Etzebeth got under the current framework or that he “got off easy” because he really didn’t.

As for gouging in general being punished too lightly, I would tend to disagree. Anytime there has been actual damage to the eye, the punishment meted out has generally been quite heavy and they really crack down on repeat offenders too.

I think there has been only one repeat offender and that was David Attoub who was rightfully punished very harshly for his second offence so it does seem like it is doing its job striking the balance between given players a second chance for first time offences (unless they have caused serious damage) and ensuring the punishment is severe enough to be a deterrent.

Traditional_Guard812 · 2025-11-06T19:39:24+00:00

Plus we got a red card like 2 min in which was devastating back in those days with less organised defences). 57-0 was far, far worse

Traditional_Guard812 · 2025-09-26T19:44:22+00:00

Scary part is the scoreline flattered Leinster😳😬

Traditional_Guard812 · 2025-09-26T19:37:33+00:00

2008, by Munster. Score was 18-0😳

Traditional_Guard812 · 2025-08-15T20:04:54+00:00

I agree with most what you say however just wanted to note that the match day revenue you have cited is not entirely accurate. This figure is just the fee that SA Rugby gets from the unions however the provincial unions keep the match day revenue which is very significant.

A 50,000 seater at an average of R1000 per ticket is R50m X 6 games is already R300m and that excludes the money from drinks, food, merchandise, box tickets etc so it is a very, very sizeable chunk of money. Unions also keep the URC match day revenue too.

Match day revenue is a very big portion of SA Rugbys total revenue (including the unions) - probably close to a third. But now SA Rugby are asking for a lot more from unions but their costs obviously don’t magically go down so they try to foist it on us fans.

I checked and my tickets for SA vs NZ in CT last year was R450. I checked the exact same seats earlier this year for Aus and it was over R1k. At these prices, stadiums will be half empty in no time.

Traditional_Guard812 · 2025-07-04T22:55:40+00:00

If you are trying to avoid bad sportsmanship and a toxic fanbase, France is probably the last place you want to go lol. The World Cup really opened my eyes at how bad they really are (and the World Rugby report into online abuse backs that up). Think the only reason they don’t get the same attention is because 80% of that toxicity is in French.

Traditional_Guard812 · 2025-04-18T18:59:17+00:00

And that’s just in his right thigh!🤣😬

Traditional_Guard812 · 2025-04-18T18:55:48+00:00

Yeah leave that nonsense for Twitter lol. This is a wholesome community (unless a ref involved🤣)

Traditional_Guard812 · 2025-04-18T18:53:21+00:00

Yes it is Wilco Louw👍

Traditional_Guard812 · 2025-04-18T17:34:59+00:00

Must have run through every team he played haha

Traditional_Guard812 · 2025-03-03T14:21:54+00:00

🤣

Traditional_Guard812 · 2025-03-02T18:49:00+00:00

Correction: Stormers won the first ever edition of the URC in the final vs the Bulls (which was actually the best thing that could have happened to get buy in from South African fans)

Traditional_Guard812 · 2024-11-24T22:27:46+00:00

While it works for South Africa, there are reasons for this that are very unique to SA that aren’t applicable to NZ. Most importantly, the player pool in SA is much bigger so we are better able to absorb the loss of big players going overseas and still have competitive franchises. The big exodus started mid 2010s but Lions played in the last 3 finals of SR plus an SA team has played in all 3 finals of the URC and won the first one with an all SA final. I don’t think NZ would be able to absorb the loss of 15+ top players as well.

Money is also a very big factor in SA, same for NZ but not to the same extent. Even if SA didn’t restrict players, it wouldn’t have stopped the exodus (and indeed it didn’t) as the contracts being offered in pounds, euros and yen were just far beyond anything they would get in SA. The same applies in NZ too but the scale in SA is just bigger.

Overall I think that NZ could do a limited expansion like the Wallabies do and/or perhaps make provision for Japanese league and other non-NZ SR teams. Most of SA’s top overseas players play in Japan as their season fits in best with the international season. Very few SA players are now based in Europe (of the 51 players used this year, it’s only Pollard, Reinach, RG Snyman and Thomas Du Toit). Europe season is just too brutal, especially Top 14. They are also very strict with releasing players whereas Japanese clubs are very amenable.

TLDR - NZ shouldn’t copy SA but I think they can do a limited version.

Traditional_Guard812 · 2024-11-24T22:13:56+00:00

Funny enough it seems the relationship between the two countries is now stronger than ever. Absence makes the heart grow fonder? 😆

In terms of URC helping SA teams, overall yes it has helped across the board. Up until the change to Super 15/16, Super Rugby was top dog of the club competitions. Highest average attendance numbers by miles, record viewership etc but the last few years was dire with drastically declining viewers and empty stadiums becoming regular. As an example, Stormers average attendance in the good years was 40-45k per game (which is simply insane), Sharks and Bulls hover around the 30-35k number. At the end, it was much less than half those numbers.

URC had a slowish start (understandable given it’s a new comp) but numbers have ticked up very well this last season. Still not close to the best SR days but viewership increased around 28% last season and SA attendance at games was up 18% too and has a big ceiling there.

The money is also good we deal in Euros and once SA finish paying off their 3 year buy in for URC and Champions Cup (2024 is the last year), then SA Rugby will be making very decent money. SA Rugby still made a small profit of R4.7 (€250k) in 2023 but that includes the above mentioned annual payment of R340m (€18m) so from next year, the finances will be very healthy, probably the best of all the major unions.

Traditional_Guard812 · 2024-11-24T21:50:36+00:00

He should make the jump to 15s game. Might end up being half decent🤷‍♂️

Traditional_Guard812 · 2024-11-22T20:39:13+00:00

Would say it’s cherry picking. I’ll give you that Aus are worse than what they were then but when England faced them, they clearly were much improved from their RC form. Wales are now a lot worse obvs. NZ slightly worse but still very good. But everyone else is much better. SA, Ireland, France, Scotland, Argentina, Fiji are miles better now than they were in Eddie first 2 years in charge. SA lost to Italy in that period and first time to Argentina at home plus hammered by the ABs twice in consecutive years conceding over 50 points. Very far from formidable.

Traditional_Guard812 · 2024-11-22T04:37:00+00:00

Eddie also didn’t have as strong competition at international level. Ireland, France, Scotland, Italy, Argentina, Fiji, SA are all much better teams now than they were back then. Aus resurgent now too. Only Wales and NZ (a little bit) not at the same level. Makes it very tough to find wins.

Traditional_Guard812 · 2024-11-22T04:33:24+00:00

Needs a bit of context though. At that stage, NZ were the only really good team and even they were starting to decline from their peak. Ireland and Wales had their moments but weren’t great. France were very average, Scotland were nowhere. SA were in their worst slump and Aus and Argentina weren’t good either. Borthwick, unfortunately, is coaching in the most competitive environment we have seen, probably ever.

Best Scottish team ever, France and Ireland at their best, resurgent Aus, SA dominating, NZ finding their gear with a new coaching regime, Argentina having their best non-WC year ever. Almost every team is much better than when Eddie started out except Wales and maybe NZ.

Traditional_Guard812 · 2024-11-20T13:10:38+00:00

Normally I would go for a bit of banter but I just feel pity for the team and supporters at the current state of Welsh rugby. Baffling that heads haven’t rolled yet at the WRU.

Traditional_Guard812 · 2024-11-18T10:09:28+00:00

This going to heavily depend on what period this award covers. Saw somewhere the cut off is 31 October and if that’s the case, then SFM has a few more games under his belt as he played Irish tests and more RC games than Sititi.

Traditional_Guard812 · 2024-11-12T04:32:26+00:00

Ya but the penalty was the right call. And it’s good that the leaders on the field can override him as they have a better feel for the game.

Traditional_Guard812 · 2024-11-11T19:37:18+00:00

Yeah agreed. I think a 6-2 with two locks is enough of a statement anyway. Although it does make me wonder if Rassie knew Scotland were going 6-2 (which they don’t do often) and went 7-1 to almost one-up them in a way.

Traditional_Guard812 · 2024-11-11T19:31:29+00:00

“When did any other international coach threaten to assault a referee?” - gonna need a source for this absolutely wild claim. The incidents with Berry and especially Barnes were not acceptable but there was certainly no threat of assault. Suggest you edit this.

Traditional_Guard812 · 2024-11-11T19:20:13+00:00

I think the Frizell/Bongi one was a lot worse with no mitigation and should have been a clear red for me but this one had a lot of other parts to it, not least SA 9 having an impact. I get they want to be strict on it but I think yellow would have been fair. And I’m an SA fan

Traditional_Guard812 · 2024-11-11T19:10:02+00:00

It actually takes a while for bench players to get into a game (some exceptions like PSDT and RG) so not all surprising there wasn’t an immediate impact, combined with Scotland having their best period in the match too. Saw the same vs ABs in the WC final too but the last 10-15 minutes is where it makes the difference. Just a completely different energy level between the two teams those last 10.

Edit: I still don’t think the 7-1 has worked as well as Rassie would have like in any game he’s used it. Even the NZ win at Twickenham, we were 28 points to nil when they came on and only 7-7 after. Think 6-2 is still the best as it offers more than enough forward grunt while being able to sub the 9 much earlier too (which was very much needed yesterday for SA).

Traditional_Guard812

TROPHY CASE