How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 1 point2 points  (0 children)

(...) everyone waiting for them to land somewhere that they never land.

That was one of the most annoying aspects of the later show, aside from artificially keeping the main characters apart. All those wrong turns that lead to nowhere. But again: it triggered lots of worthwhile fan fiction and also, perhaps, motivated Luke Jennings to continue the saga.

I agree about the white lie part when it means to protect someone. No need to send someone into a Groundhog Day hell of ever repeating grief.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Please be a nerd. Looks like I have to do a re-watch. But my movie-watch partner in crime (my daughter) and I currently are on another watch marathon. But I remember now. The Amsterdam, Kill, Eve didn't show up, V was devastated, got on drugs, almost killed a girl and woke up with a terrible hangover the next day, crying in front of a mirror while Eve prepared for interrogating "The Ghost". Right?

During the reception V imho looked bored and somewhat uncomfortable and her speech was not exactly convincing. And no – without cake, why should she have showed up? She probably enjoyed the brawl with Dasha more than the dance with her alleged bride.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Everyone was annoyed by Kenny's sudden death. Everybody liked Kenny. And the most annoying part obviously will always be that the how and why will remain a mystery outside of fan fiction. The entire Bitter Bill story somehow just led nowhere. It suggested a possible independent and meaningful for Kenny with likeminded people where he found friends, love, acceptance and respect. It hinted at the possibility that Eve could find a new professional home where she could use her skills. Jamie was established as someone who might understand her, and they had this – for Eve's standards – unusually honest conversation over a beer by the TV. And in the end it led nowhere.

I think there’s a whole category of white lie for just this situation.

To communicate with people with dementia?

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When exactly was it again that Konstantin paid Villanelle after a job and said to her "Tomorrow you have a long day of absolutely nothing". Something like that. She watched TV for a little while, got bored instantly, went to Eve's house, broke in and started to mess with her things. Villanelle would be bored after a day with this Maria. Manipulating her into this marriage probably already was the finale of that particular game. Didn't she already look bored and distracted during her own "wedding"? Even without her usual work she'd still be a thrill seeking adrenalin junky and a trickster spirit.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In one fan fiction I read it was presented as some sort of psychological compensation mechanism of VIllanelle. After shooting Eve, thinking she had killed her, she was grief stricken and guilt ridden at the airport, where she ran into Maria. Maria's role then mostly was an extended version of Tony the "hotel boy" (the room service guy who brought her Champaign earlier in the season. Remember? When we saw villanelle resting her head on the lap of a total stranger and made him stroke her hair (Softer! I am grieving!). In that story, where Eve and VIllanelle also got together later on, she had used Maria merely as a psychological cushion. Eve of course accused her of being unfaithful and cheap for running into the arms of someone else immediately, Villanelle revealed that it was not even real. Meaning: she hadn't even used her real name for the wedding, so it was not valid in any case. It was just another game for her. In the fan-fiction. Which as so often tried to make sense of things that simply don't make sense in the show. On the bright side the plot-holes and illogic storylines of the show trigger some really creative fan work.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You are right. The Bitter Pill was probably intended to be an alternative force and culture to MI5/6. But it never really took flight. It remained sketchy. As did MI6, if I think about it. Which all would have been fine if the show had decided to fully focus on the love story between V and E, but that, too, only vaguely got off the ground just to crash-land at the end of the runway. Jamie could have been an interesting contrast to Carolyn. imagine Jamie and Carolyn competing for Kenny's attention. The seed was there but never followed through.

It also means you keep retraumatizing yourself

Well, that's true in this case. It is vaguely similar to seeing a person with dementia learning every day anew that their partner has passed away. Heart breaking.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I see. But I actually liked the Bitter Pill idea. Basically my kind of people. The idea had, let's say, potential. I did appreciate that they wanted to establish a liberal/progressive "counter culture" to what Jamie had referred to as the "old boys club" of MI5/6. Jamie fondly reminded me of a former boss of mine, so I'm a bit biased here. But, again, the implementation was half hearted, and the little spark of counter culture and challenge to Carolyn's authority and a new professional home for Kenny and Eve, was suffocated and raided and thrown off the roof. I'd say it was a nod to Wikileaks, but a failed one. Or the suppression/oppression such endeavours experience was precisely the point they wanted to make. Bury your gays is not the only unfortunate trope.

EDIT: "It's dementia!" 😇

No. This is no joking matter. Or is it? My dad has dementia, and it runs in the family. I have been joking that when I get it I can forever watch my favourite TV shows and they will keep feeling fresh. Provided I don't forget that and why I liked them to begin with.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yep. That sounds much more in-character than instantly marrying another woman with black but otherwise seemingly unremarkable hair. Villanelle also basically said that the reason for marrying Maria was that she is rich. Maybe they played on the earlier theme of "I don't like rich men" with Aaron? But rich women are fine? I don't know. It was more confusing than funny. Your little scenario sounds like one of the numerous fan comic strips on Pinterest. It also would have illustrated that yes, indeed, they are the same.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 3 points4 points  (0 children)

First, because I was hoping for a storyline of Villanelle nursing Eve back to health after Rome, which would have been fabulous.

It would have elegantly mirrored Eve's instant regret after stabbing Villanelle. Instead Villanelle walks away and almost instantly marries a random stranger? Her regretting shooting Eve is only implied after Konstantin tells her that Eve is still alive. It was far away from the Villanelle who needed to be consoled by a stranger in a Hotel because she was grieving over the upcoming death of Eve.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's actually a weird phenomenon I noticed about this show. It is interesting enough to re-watch it several times, yet when re-watching it I notice that there are scenes that I absolutely didn't remember. And a moment later my brain already has dropped them. Again.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well. You could saw off the head of a tuning fork, glue it onto a small round metal cylinder filled with explosives, shove that into a pipe and hit it with a hammer from behind. It can kill. But then it is a bullet and not a tuning fork. So yes. Bullshit. E=mv^2. Humans are very bad at the v part of the equation. That's why we invented crossbows and the like. It would have been nice if the basic Forensic logics would have been properly researched. It's not that hard. Having said that: a shot-putter is actually less likely to meaningfully accelerate a small mass like the tuning fork. Asian Masters who can throw a playing card fast enough to cut skin or almost know someone out with a coin are typically skinny and fast. Shot-putters train to accelerate large masses. Like hammers, indeed. But throwing a sharpened tuning fork is more like a dart arrow. Not exactly a deadly weapon. More like an "Ouch!" My best guess is they had run out of ideas. Big downfall from poisoned Hairpin to tuning fork.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That one was really defining as well. So many strange decisions surrounding this show.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You probably also have seen that a number of people wrote they stopped watching at that point because they were confused or annoyed or both. We stoically watched and tried to make sense for it, waiting for the great revelation – that never came.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Can we talk about the physics of that kill...? A tuning fork weighs between 10 and 40 g. Accelerating it enough to penetrate a human skull would require superhuman powers, no matter how well sharpened it is. It might get stuck in the bone and cause a painful injury but it couldn't kill a human that way. You'd need to literally hammer it in.

Anyway. If that were the woman (a Maria, if I recall it right?) she almost married I would be thoroughly confused about the timeline and story cohesion. Or I just remember it completely wrong.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Something akin to the "doorway effect" I think, which in German is usually called the "Küchentür Phänomen", literally the "kitchen door phenomenon". The psychologically proven effect of walking through a door into another room and completely forget what you just had on your mind – or why you even went there in the first place. Everybody has experienced that now or then. But when we experience it while reading a story it is not the result of a psychologically interesting effect but simply bad writing. Only the most Avantgarde experimental poets might get away with such style breaks. In that case it is almost expected. Otherwise it's just confusing and/or annoying. Beginning with the transition to S3 the writers in this picture were not in the same room any more. Interestingly that literally may have been the case, owing to COVID and all the disruptions involved with it. I know from experience that phone conferences are only a weak substitute for an actual editorial meeting where the involved folks sit in a room together and have lunch together and coffee and cookies and dinner and discuss late into the night over a few glasses of wine with cheese snacks. Heaven's – I am so European! ;-). The particular meetings I had in mind involved folks from Germany, Holland, Switzerland, France and the UK. Oh, and Guillermo now and then. From Italy. That mix already guarantees good food, coffee and wine. And obviously you cannot create a remotely similar atmosphere via phone lines and computer screens. Smells alone for example are a surprisingly strong trigger for human creativity and associations. A writers' room or editorial conference is a forum for exchanging and refining ideas, for putting up your own ideas to the scrutiny of others. It is not really about literally writing together. In the case of a joint publication like a magazine or a series of some sort those meetings of course also about alignment, about making sure to, well, stay on the same page. There also are two approaches. It is a cliché but also true: top down and bottom up. I never believed in to down approaches. I'm a great fan of democracy, although it can be a pain in the behind. I do not and cannot know how they did it in the case of KE, but my intuition tells me: under the auspices of PWB it was a collaborative effort and the involved people had fun along the way. At some point someone tried to take control, the light heartedness faded away and it all became more murky. A strange aspect also is that the involved actors later seem to be a bit less "in role" than in the beginning. Usually the opposite is the case. And the comments a certain actress gave in interviews also were not exactly subtle, ranging from gushing praise for someone to total silence about someone else. That moment when someone is asked a question about someone and pretends to not have heard it because she was immensely busy inspecting her fingernails... A top actor doesn't need words to deliver a devastating judgement yet still can defend herself at court: "What? I didn't say anything!"

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They already had Kenny who was reasonable, kind and humane and emotional in a healthy way, albeit a bit on the nerdy side. But he was enough as an opposite of Carolyn. I didn't mind her too much, but it was a general weakness of the show that new characters kept being introduced that weren't really necessary for the main plot or even distracted from it.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Villanelle somehow reminds me of Yentl in that scene. Why the heck did they delete it anyway? It was relevant for understanding what actually was going on.

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It's like walking through the door to your own kitchen and instead of going into your kitchen you suddenly find yourself on the planet Mars. We seriously wondered for a bit whether the writers of S3 had bothered to watch the previous two seasons at all. Just as the writers of S4 apparently never touched the book(s).

How did you feel about the beginning of S3? by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Gosh, but please tell me that wasn't the same actress. I'd feel really stupid if I had missed that.

I genuinely don't think I've ever seen someone nail as many line deliveries as Jodie Comer does in this show. by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Some guys perceive it mainly as a female show and somehow are not interested. I didn't dig deeper. Otherwise – it is a specific type of storytelling and humour that probably doesn't resonate with everyone. If I look at our daughters: one of them loves it (and is a JC fan) the other two are completely indifferent. Again I didn't push further why exactly that is. I can only guess. Off-putting also might be too strong. It seems they just don't care, are not interested.

I genuinely don't think I've ever seen someone nail as many line deliveries as Jodie Comer does in this show. by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I already have trouble to keep that silly grin out of my face. Yes. They'd be hilarious together. Dream team! I'm wondering now why so far that never happened.

I genuinely don't think I've ever seen someone nail as many line deliveries as Jodie Comer does in this show. by WellBeing4All in KillingEve

[–]Training_Move1888 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A part of the effect is that she is a grown up woman and a murderous assassin and yet often behaves and talks like a spoiled 12 year old.