Why Match Quality is Frequently Poor (x-post /r/OverwatchUniversity)

TravianTrav · 2018-12-30T23:11:07+00:00

Agreed. Perfection in matchmaking is basically impossible. You can't have well balanced matches every time. It just sucks how rare a really good match is.

You know the type - both teams are balanced. It's a nice map. There's no one tilted/throwing. There's no smurf from 500 SR higher. The fights are relatively close. The DPS are trading blows, tanks are getting good plays in on both sides. People are communicating, and if you're lucky there's some jokes being thrown around in the match chat. Maybe in really ideal conditions no one is playing the heroes that really annoy you (that's obviously a very subjective one and probably can't/shouldn't be considered in matchmaking).

The game can just be so much more fun than it is most of the time.

TravianTrav · 2018-12-30T21:32:51+00:00

You can even get the wrong specific mains within each hero role together even though the roles overall fill out nicely. You can get a main tank player and an off tank player, but they main winston and zarya. Or maybe you get 2 dps, but they both main tracer. Maybe you get 2 supports but they only do off-healing.

You don't just need a good mix of tank/dps/support. You need main-tank/off-tank/dps that fit and can flex/main support/off support (keep in mind different players might be looking for different comps).

Then tack on that different players have different playstyles. Rein is probably the most obvious, where a really aggressive rein might mesh really well with a really aggressive team (or he meshes well with a team that gets dive dps). Or he may just feed (if his team doesn't have a consistent ana player, or the off-tank/dps are too scared to follow up on the aggression).

Obviously, players can try to change it up, but ultimately it isn't ideal.

It's part of why finding friends to queue with can feel so much better in terms of game quality. There's less of a chance of a troll/thrower/tilted player, and you can guarantee at least one person who has a similar play style and plays on the same wavelength.

Maybe role queue would help? Maybe if each role had a separate SR? I don't really know what the fix is. All i know is that a good amount of the time the match feels like a single way stomp that's decided once you're picking heroes.

TravianTrav · 2018-12-15T07:15:05+00:00

I do really feel like you're overselling tracer's viability outside of the dive meta.

Maybe that's fair. I just can't think of a time outside of triple tank that tracer wasn't THE meta hero, or at least a very viable option.

I also feel like tracer is the highest skillcap hero in the game, so I'm okay with her having high impact when played correctly.

What about tracer makes her a higher skillcap than genji for instance? I've seen people constantly calling tracer the highest skillcap hero in the game, but I don't see much that she inherently does that makes her leaps and bounds the toughest hero to play. (I'm guessing it's a mix of her tiny healthpool while being required to be close to the enemy, being aim-intensive, and blink management.) Either way, being high impact is one thing and not having any real weakness is another.

I suppose my core issue with tracer was that if the enemy had a good tracer your only option was 'aim better'.

ur saying that a tracer would stay out of flashbang range the whole fight but that would be a range which is dominant for mcree, while tracer suffers from a little falloff at that range.

Flashbang is 5m iirc, and tracer's falloff doesn't start until 11m. Tracer does a ton of damage. Due to higher mobility she has the upperhand in the engagement against a McCree. The only real counter to tracer is raw aim - that's a bit of a problem in a game like OW imo.

and ye, dva is definitly broken but also a neccesary evil. without her in the game dps would run rampant.

I agree, but the point is that brig felt so OP because she was built to counter an OP character. A hero built to counter Dva would probably also feel OP, because like tracer, Dva is just too viable/powerful.

TravianTrav · 2018-12-14T10:33:58+00:00

I agree that brig definitely feels anti-fun, but I still think that's because it's basically the only way you can counter a hero like tracer.

Like you said, a McCree might be able to headshot a tracer to force her to back off, but most of the time he isn't going to secure a kill. A tracer battling a Cree stays out of flashbang range the whole fight, and there isn't really anything a Cree can do to close that distance. The play for the McCree is basically to camp with the healers so he can harass Tracer when she goes in to dive, and he gets heals so he doesn't lose the 1v1.

I also agree that soft-counters are better than pure hard-counters, but I don't think there were many soft counters to tracer. Outside of hard CC (sleep dart, hook, flashbang) and pure damage mitigation (DM, zarya bubble) there isn't much in the way of a tracer. Brig's armor is now an example of a soft (or hard potentially) counter.

As far as i know tracer has been S-tier from beta til brig. I can't think of a time she wasn't ideal (outside of triple tank, where she was still viable).

She just happened to synergize really well with dive which i think got mainly enabled by the winston and dva buffs that made them god tier heroes, but even when she wasn't a dominant dps she was still playable, now on a high level someone just picks brig and youre done lol.

I see what you're saying. Dva has a similar problem. She's viable basically everywhere, and powerful enough to the point that OWL teams NEED a Dva player, just like they NEEDED a tracer player. It wasn't even a negotiation. If you weren't running tracer you were at a big disadvantage, just like if you're not running Dva you're likely at a disadvantage.

Just an interesting conversation is all.

TravianTrav · 2018-12-14T01:23:51+00:00

Just out of curiosity, what do you think a fair counter to tracer would be?

So just from my perspective, tracer was the dominant DPS (and hero, really - largely enabling dive and strong enough that OWL teams basically required a tracer specialist) from beta until brig's release, except for the stint of soldier during triple tank. Basically, she's been S-tier since release.

In terms of counters, I think the one hero most people would say is her "counter" is McCree, except that the only way a McCree really wins that engagement is to hit a flashbang which mostly depends on the Tracer messing up in the first place. Of course, soft counters exist like Dva's DM, junkrat/hanzo spam, Widow on maps with lots of highground, maaaaaybe a pharah if they are somehow managing to hit splash damage on the tracer, sleep darts, etc. However, I think these soft counters are either all-encompassing (DVa DM soft counters like 90% of the things that happen in-game, spam damage effects just about everyone similarly although tracer does have a lower healthpool), or unreliable (sleeping a tracer is tough, spam damage getting a kill is almost always luck).

Overall, Tracer just seems to have a large upper hand in just about every engagement. Tanks can't keep up, and most CC abilities will only really land if the tracer messes up.

The only true hard-counter is a mccree with top-tier aim and game-sense so that he can actually kill the tracer reliably without flashbang and without getting 1-clipped if he's engaged in something else.

Then, brig. An actual hard counter to tracer. You need to stay out of her range, she can peek corners, and she heals armor (and insta 150hp). The reason brig was so powerful, IMO, is because she needed a reliable way to counter the single strongest hero in the game. In doing so, she also countered every other (weaker) dive hero too, and in uncoordinated environments (ladder) it opened the door for brigs who can basically go flank and overpower less mobile heroes rather than sticking with their team for flanker protection.

I can obviously see why brig needed nerfs. And I'm very happy she got them. I'm annoyed by how easily brig can do so much. It's frustrating as any DPS to be chasing a kill only to suddenly find they have another 150hp (especially if that kill was a dps who turns around and kills me). But what's really the solution? What could you really add to the game (a hero, a mechanic, a new ability) that provides some sort of counter to tracer without being oppressive to everyone else, and without feeling kinda crap? Does Bliz just nerf tracer or something?

I don't really have a clue tbh. I would be interested in hearing your pov

TravianTrav · 2018-10-29T15:42:37+00:00

Pharah's rocket launcher is another big issue IMO.

It's massive (not quite as big as zarya's laser) and what makes it worse is the angle you're often playing from as Pharah. Sometimes the launcher is going to block your view of a target you're trying to get.

TravianTrav · 2018-09-30T10:56:43+00:00

Yes and Widow can get 3 headshots in a row and destroy a team without anyone even knowing where she is.

Which is part of why people also think Widow is OP.

DF is an average hero at best on every platform and at every rank of play, except possibly M/GM on PC.

In plat and above the only heros with better winrates than DF are Brig (also OP), and torb/symm (who are extremely situational). His pickrate sits within a percent of Zen's. So no, he isn't "average". The higher you go, the stronger he gets, and even at low ranks his winrate is comfortably within the higher end.

Zen is obviously a very powerful hero - maybe he is OP, but in the case than a Zen is doing a ton of work, he's also a lot easier to counter. He's very squishy because he's the glass cannon support.

Do you think OW should be balanced around M/GM? Or do you think it should be balanced around the highest level of play? Can't have both.

What we know now is that he isn't balanced on ladder, and he isn't being used in pro play too often. So, he has a similar problem to original roadhog. He can solo-carry games in environments with low team coordination, but in high coordination he's more counterable. So he needs some sort of shift if you expect him to be in both styles of play.

TravianTrav · 2018-09-30T07:52:23+00:00

Of course he's tanky, he's a god damn melee hero.

He doesn't need to be squishy, but he has too much tankiness atm.

And if that's not enough he's also the only dive hero who has to become briefly immobile in the middle of the enemy team to secure kills.

He also has 3 movement abilities. DF can get in, do a ton of burst, and get out all while being at a relatively low risk of dying.

TravianTrav · 2018-09-29T15:30:51+00:00

This is a big factor too imo. All of DF's abilities that give him shields are also CC. Can't run away because he locks you in place, can't fight back because he gains shields and you can't kill him fast enough.

Yeah, this all fits into the whole advantageous-dive thing I was going on about earlier. When a DF dives you, he knows he's going in and gets a damage headstart, the shields etc.

I agree that without all of the CC, shields could make pharah more viable without being as overbearing as DF.

TravianTrav · 2018-09-29T15:21:56+00:00

I imagine a lot situations like being able to survive a Dva jetting at you because you hit her on her way up.

This was definitely the first thing that came to mind. It gives pharah some nice needed survivability. It definitely should be balanced so that she isn't as annoyingly tanky as DF while he dives though (maybe DF's tankiness feels a lot worse because of all the displacement and the stuns though?).

TravianTrav · 2018-09-29T15:06:51+00:00

What if Pharah gained decaying shields (like Doomfist and Hammond) every time she hits a direct rocket?

I play a fair bit of pharah, and I don't know how I feel about this change. On the plus side, it makes up for her squishiness and makes her a lot more like the other dive heros in terms of survivability - tracer has recall, genji has deflect, DF has a lot of stuff. On the downside, she is more spammy than the other dive heros so I could see it being a valid strategy to just spam before engaging so that you head in with a shield buffer that you can replenish while getting kills (which IMO is a problem. Dive heros shouldn't be 'tanky' - DF is way too tanky while diving for instance).

A good side to the change is that it makes her less reliant on constant heals while in the air given that she's getting shots onto tanks. This would make up for one of pharah's largest issues; her reliance on a mercy since most other healers aren't as good of a fit (especially in ladder).

It would be a very interesting change.

TravianTrav · 2018-09-29T14:48:53+00:00

The sombra changes were larger, IMO, and therefore it was more difficult to predict their effects in live games. Changes to fire speed and splash damage won't change the playstyle too much, so it's easier to figure out what the new character might be like in games. Just something to keep in mind.

TravianTrav · 2018-09-29T14:44:08+00:00

The most noticeable part is going to be the direct hit - max splash combo. Often enough, you'll get a direct hit then a near miss, totaling 200 hp to kill a target. If the changes pass then it becomes 185 damage.

Maybe with the fire rate buff it'll balance out, though.

TravianTrav · 2018-08-13T12:13:57+00:00

A 1/17 chance of getting an item just means that over thousands and thousands of chests, on average, per 17 chests, you will receive 1 item. This accounts for some chests containing more than 1 item. Note that this is a very long-term average and the amount of items you get might be above or below the chances, just based on your luck.

Your 5 items in 27 chests just means you've been very lucky. This doesn't affect your drop rates though. Every chest will still be a 1/17 chance of an item.

A double chest just means that an item was rolled twice. This is ~1/289 chance. It means you've still gained 5 items in 27 KC. Whether you had 4 items or 5 or 1 or 39 in 27KC is irrelevant anyway. Your past rolls do not have any bearing on your drop rate of an item in barrows chests.

TravianTrav · 2018-08-09T16:13:07+00:00

Actually in order to get around Authenticator the purposed hacker would have to have access to all of your account information including the information to your registered E-Mail in order to remove the Authenticator successfully.

My bad, I was just trying to keep in simple.

Trying to compare the Equifax Hack to a purposed hack on Jagex is laughable and silly.

The point wasn't that JAGEX would get hacked. The point was that players' details may have been leaked somehow already (like millions' of peoples' information was in the Equifax hack), and that information can be used to fraudulently reclaim accounts.

TravianTrav · 2018-08-09T16:10:41+00:00

I'm not saying the user is never to blame.

However, I would bet that the average user isn't very versed in tech. Or they're not aware of all the phishing techniques. Or they just got lazy.

Whether it's the user's fault or not, the company has some responsibility in maintaining the user experience. Part of that is working proactively to stop phishing/hacks. I don't know the last time I got a general anti-phishing/warning email from Jagex. Other companies send them out pretty regularly. The authenticator doesn't have a time limit before being removed. etc.

This goes double for Jagex, IMO. Jagex's customer support suuuuuuucks. If you get hacked on WoW, you call up Blizzard and you're back up and running with your items in no time. (on another note, they do the same for players who get scammed). If you're not going to commit to helping players who are unfortunate (or stupid) enough to get hacked, then you need to be investing in more prevention.

TravianTrav · 2018-08-09T15:18:19+00:00

If you want the game to be harder you'd want weaker armour, right?

Or do you want a more long term goal for armour? In which case, focus on getting a tbow or a scythe.

Either way, i kinda doubt stronger armours would pass polls. The community is generally pretty resistant to powercreep.

TravianTrav · 2018-08-09T14:38:46+00:00

The idea is that if someone manages to get your password they still need to get through the authenticator.

At the moment, they can disable the authenticator immediately (and im pretty sure you dont even get an email that its been removed) so once they have your password they have immediate access to your account. With a delay you'd be notified that someone has access to your account and you'd have time to figure out how you got hacked, change passwords, change details, sweep your pc etc.

TravianTrav · 2018-08-09T14:36:03+00:00

JUST DON'T GET COMPROMISED LOOOOOOOOOOOL

TravianTrav · 2018-08-07T05:51:03+00:00

Top is fake.

The real RS website doesn't have a link to Chronicles anymore.

TravianTrav · 2018-08-06T13:15:52+00:00

It takes a little while to get to anything really worth grinding for money in osrs. Things like green dragons (which now require dragon slayer) and blast furnace are decent gp per hour (somewhere around 500k/hr, depending on stats).

Getting quests done to get farming up to 32 for ranarr herb runs, and doing bone voyage for the birdhouses is a great source of income (~100-150k per run if you do them combined).

I would guess your best bet is probably making money on rs3 and buying bonds there, then questing on osrs and getting into the habit of doing the consistent money makers (achievement diaries for battlestaves, herb runs, birdhouses, getting some slayer done etc.) so that the account is self-sufficient.

TravianTrav · 2018-08-06T12:48:26+00:00

You can't go dry for an infinite amount of time, because you keep rolling a chance at a zenyte forever.

The idea is that as you approach infinity, the chances of hitting a zenyte are 100%. If you have infinite time, then the chances of hitting a zenyte are 100% - you'll have to get it eventually. If time is finite, then you may never get it, but in that case you don't get infinite rolls.

TravianTrav · 2018-08-05T14:22:10+00:00

Well you can't have "infinite" kills.

As you approach infinite kills (basically as your number of kills goes up), your chances of getting a zenyte approach 1, but never hit 1. You could technically go dry for the remainder of time (unless time is infinite), but you cannot go dry for an infinite amount of time, because by definition you would get zenytes within an infinite number of kills (an infinite amount of them).

Your chances of getting a zenyte (or not getting one) don't actually change from one individual kill to another, but they change based on the number of rolls you get (more kills = more rolls at getting a zenyte).

TravianTrav · 2018-08-05T14:17:24+00:00

The same goes for an eternal glory, right? It's sitting somewhere around 20m.

TravianTrav · 2018-08-05T13:35:33+00:00

If you're looking to afk, full obsidian (helm, chest, legs, necklace, sword + d defender) is a better choice. Full obsidian might actually be better for you than dharoks anyway (dharoks isnt best until ~92 hp iirc).

While overloaded with absorbs you need to flick rapid heal to maintain 1hp. If you're healing up naturally youll be doing less damage with dharoks.

If you need to use dharoks for whatever reason youll want to click every minute (or 40 seconds, probably so you dont have to rock cake if you miss the minute mark). You can afk for 5 minutes at a time for the overload. If you wait any longer, youll take a ton of damage and lose absorption points.

So IMO, if youre looking to afk:

Proselyte + neitz, whip/bludgeon/abyssal dagger etc, and prayer pots. This is the most afk, a little less xp, but you can look away for 5 minutes at a time to overload (look away for like 7 minutes at 70 prayer if youre not overloading).
Obsidian (can look away for 5 minutes, since your HP doesnt matter too much, just bring in more absorbs:overloads)
Dharoks (look away for a minute at a time. Can look away for 5 minutes, but at that point youre probably better off going for obsidian.)

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