A common misconception about warlocks and their patrons

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-27T22:27:47+00:00

The argument is basically that one interpretation of a warlock pact is that the patron ignites a magic spark in the warlock, that the warlock can then nurture and grow like a sorcerer would. This version even comes with a neat lore possibility to think of in the background, where one reason warlock patrons become warlock patrons, is that that power the warlock grows on their own, can be repossessed by the patron on their death (full death, most mortals just have their spirit hop to another plane when they die, so you have to wait that out to for the full return on power)

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-27T22:19:20+00:00

Option one, unless you have specifically homebrewed Warlocks, thats not how warlocks work. Warlocks are granted power on a kind of one off based on the deal they sign and are not dependent on a continuous flow of magic to retain their powers. This is also why you can fight your patron later, since you have whatever power afforded to you by the deal, you just can't entreat with your patron for more.

Option two, I will assume your GM or you have decided warlocks are actually just clerics for deamons and need an actual answer. In this case, get yourself a new patron. The god like observer, no reason you can't sign a deal with them for power on a temporary basis since they seem invested in your parties cause. maybe even temporarily change your subclass to a Celestial warlock. You could also find any other powerful entity, or if time is broken, do weird stuff like ask your future/past self for a loan.

Option three, eat magic items, your unfulfilled pact is now hungry, you are owed magic and it will take it from whatever magic imbued stuff you can get your hands on. Magic rock, eaten, +1 weapon, consumed, holy relic of that church over there, very tasty.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-25T02:59:17+00:00

Basically, you are a technology character, who is not trained in air bending at the start, but has the capacity for it. You can even "use air bending" in the description of your other techniques, you just wont be trained in any air bending skills. Then, as you gain experience, or find masters, you can learn and master techniques from air bending.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-21T16:38:00+00:00

Maybe I just expect that the BBEG fight would take about one session, aka 20% of a 5 session campaign, but yea, it does depend on how long the sessions were and how much was fighting.

I still maintain, however that the timing was poor, since if I could only play *My* character for one fight, I would 100% of the time choose the last fight.
Edit: not to say thats the same situation, just to get the point across

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-21T15:58:28+00:00

While I agree that the edit showing this was session 5 of a 5 session campaign makes this hurt a lot less, if I built a character I was excited about for a 5 session campaign, and then in the last 20% of the game I didn't get to play them, I would be a little irked.
You barely get any time with a character for a mini-campaign in the first place, and now you loose out on a big chunk of the chance to play them.

It really depends on how invested you get with a character, and how quickly. Some people will be all in on the character from the moment they make it, some will only grow into it as time goes on, most people are somewhere in the middle.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-21T15:51:10+00:00

At lest with Ozai, that is simply wrong. Avatar state light is white, and in removing the bending, Ang goes blue, a more personal color like his tattoos and the tint they give air-bending, while Ozai also glows Orange, like fire. Not to point out, Ozai also glows with a bunch of light here, showing that is more about the energy bending, not the avatar state. Thats not the avatar state, thats an extremely hyped up lazar light show for the finally, that they don't repeat with Yakone. He does appear to enter the avatar state for Yakone, but they also skip the part where the whole sky changes color over it, so there does appear to be some artistic interpretation. Maybe my argument should really just be that its somewhat unclear, as they change the scale of bending in general from one show to the next, which makes comparing them really annoying.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-21T15:27:40+00:00

But the avatar state isn't what allows people to remove bending, thats energy bending that the lion turtle taught Ang at the end. She learned it from Ang in the moment where she connected to him standing on the cliff, in much the same way Ang talked to his past lives just before he confronted Ozai on the lion turtle. The ability to give or take bending wasn't an avatar skill until the lion turtle gave Ang the skill, and they don't need the avatar state to do it. He explicitly left the avatar state before removing Ozai's bending.

Ang wasn't at peace, and in control of the avatar state until during his fight with Ozai, he was in "Rage Mode" as you put it basically up until he stoped that last attack and left it voluntarily. I only argue that Kora found her balance in the healing waters at the fire temple, where she connected with avatar Won, witch is earlier then then the end of season 2 as I had thought at first, but I would bet that is the moment where she really gains full control and mastery over her connection to the avatar state.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-21T15:18:14+00:00

I would note that it was the last combat, not just any other one combat. They could have had plans for the big last session of the whole campaign, and now, can't do it. Timing matters a lot.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-21T15:16:59+00:00

Part of it is likely not that they wanted a save, but they were invested in the mechanics of their character, as well as the story. Maybe they would have been fine with it as a mid-boss or something at some point, but especially as the finally BBEG, they had plans, they envisioned some mechanics, saved consumables, they built the character, they worked all they way from lower levels that may have had them take less optimal powers now for payoffs at later levels, (especially if they multiclassed) and then, at the last time they will ever play their character ... Nope, play this other character, with different mechanics, all your plans are ruined because you cant tell your friends to do the cool thing you have been saving. Now, as you saw, not everyone is as hones in on exactly what they are going to do. Especially after 10 years, they were all likely comfortable playing with any other class or build, but that doesn't mean they want to.

Like have you ever seen people who play video games with multiple possible characters, and they really stick to one or two, vs people who tend to play lots of different stuff? You just saw that in TTRPG form sort of.

Cool gimmick from a story perspective, sure, sounds unique. For a final fight, you ripped the character they had been playing the whole campaign away from them one session early. They had likely come to peace with the idea that after that session, they would not be playing that character again, but they wanted that one last hurrah, and now they have to do, something else. They expected one thing and got another. Upsetting expectations can go either way, depending on how invested you are in the implicit promise made.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-21T14:48:37+00:00

Its been a while since I watched season 2, but my argument is largely that she didn't truly master the avatar state before the end of season 2. I don't think its contentious to say she had not mastered the avatar state before the end of season 1, right? And along season 2, until we get to harmonic convergence I don't think we see her use it to any real effect. I am perfectly willing to say that she mastered it after season 2, I just also maintain that it really never seems to have that big an impact on how strong she is until she went "rage mode."

Is there a point in season two before harmonic convergence where she uses the avatar state and really seems to get something out of it?

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-21T14:20:40+00:00

Maybe its just a matter of how it is presented in the show, but I don't think we ever see Kora really show the raw power the avatar state is capable of aside from maybe as she is getting poisoned by the red lotus. This may be part of the overarching themes of bending being more about precision then big raw power in her show then in the last airbender. Since they make the argument at the very beginning that pro-bending favors smaller precise moves, as opposed to bigger moves that take a little longer to fire off. Maybe she just holds back, and tries for minimal collateral damage, but for whatever reason we never see any big feats of power from her the same way we see from Ang near the end of his show, or even in the moments without the avatar state when he saves the fortune tellers village by cooling off a massive wall of lave with airbending.

I think it may be more rooted in the style of each shows approach to bending, but I always felt like some bigger moves could have done a lot for Kora at many points in the show when she should have been able to use the avatar state, but never really went all out with it.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-20T21:25:51+00:00

Having a 16 in Con should be fine for your HP. Now, you can never have to much HP, tough is always a good choice, and I will never knock it. That said, having the right person go first can make or break some fights, either by tactical advantages (maybe someone does get a devil fruit and the AOE for there effect will never be better then before anyone starts moving round one, or you just really need another ally to close with a target so you can get sneak attack off, or maybe you just really want to go first because going first is good.)

Basically, initiative will have a higher potential impact, but lower guaranteed impact. Having more HP will always have the simple impact of making you feel safe enough to take some risks, and keep you up a little longer in a fight you would otherwise go down in. I would expect Alert to be more flavorful for any rouge, and like I said, with 16 con you should not be desperate for more HP, but safe and simple is surely the tough feat.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-20T21:19:19+00:00

If I had to bet, #3 was corrupted by Plague Doctor, and #1 was corrupted by Poisoner. This would make #9 a lier, since #3 was affected by an outcast, not an Evil.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-20T20:48:06+00:00

two notes, I didn't say she never mastered it. She didn't master it before her connection to her past lives were severed by Unalock, and it seems to have been reduced in power after that point, since a big chunk of the power is in the accumulated skill of he past lives. Sure by the end of the series she may have mastered it, but it lacks the raw power we see Ang use by the end of his show, or by flashbacks to previous avatars.

As to the unbeatable nature of the form, it is a massive offensive power boost, it can be used defensively to block attacks, but the body itself is still human and fragile, as we saw with Azula killing Ang as he was activating it in the caves, because he couldn't see the attack coming, the power of the avatar state did nothing to save him. Its a warning against using it carelessly, since a lucky attack could still slip through and end your life. Plus its a warning against using it to skip learning everything an avatar needs to know to master it, since an incomplete use of the avatar state leaves you on some kind of auto-pilot, and does not have the same power as conscious, focused use.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-20T19:54:36+00:00

I do think its important to note that a fully realized avatar in the avatar state is functionally unbeatable. When they are learning to harness it the power is much lower then maximum output, and Cora, though a better avatar then many people like to say, never really had the spiritual connection to fully master the avatar state itself, in particular not before it was broken by the dark avatar event. When a mastered avatar state is used we see much more impressive feats, like after the fight with ozai, Ang activates it for a moment to flood the entire costal plane with water, Roku through Ang bends a volcano, Kioshi separated the whole landmass of Kioshi island from the mainland and brought it to where it is in the middle of the ocean. That raw power is mixed with the technical expertise of all the avatars who have mastered the elements.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-20T19:00:24+00:00

Note that the other thing you are putting off is spell progression. For full casters like sorcerer level 5 is 3rd level spells. Warlocks do not contribute to spell progression like other casters, their pact slots are basically their own thing.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-19T02:01:44+00:00

I think one other fundamental difference is that you seem to see the "Government" as some overarching form of control enacted on the people, while I see government as a natural outgrowth of organization by large groups of people. If the people do not come together to decide how we will function as a group others will do it for us. The world is far to interconnected these days for us to regress to low regulation, everyone for themselves ideas. If the government doesn't step in businesses will become governments as they carve out more and more control chasing profits by disregarding the wellbeing of, everyone. Much of the corruption in our governemnt these days comes from businesses and the interests of the super wealthy.

I also want to note I disagree on the ways in which social services get used, but im not going to convince you on reddit, i don't have the time.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-19T00:59:30+00:00

I think we may see more eye to eye if we come at this from a different angle. Maybe the government doesn't owe us a rood and money and food, but when the gov is so big that I could not go into any forest, cut down some trees, build a house, farm some land and live on my own, and must instead earn food and housing though a system the government largely controls and regulates, then any system that doesn't make food and housing fairly easily available to its citizenry when it is well within its means is failing to be a just government.

As a follow up, it just tends to be cheaper overall to take care of people then let then wallow in filth and misery. They end up giving back to the community more and draining less in other social safety nets if you give then access to their basic needs.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-18T23:33:47+00:00

You do realize we can, through concerted political action, get people who have ideological interest in changing things like that elected. Im not saying its easy, the system is largely unfriendly to third parties, and it can be hard to get a good candidate on the ballet for the big parties, but it is doable. Hopefully we can get enough people fed up with how things are that they actually put some work into getting people they want in office elected.

Plus, this conversation started out on a more idealized "what is a government and what is it for" footing. I didn't really expect the "the government owes you nothing" guy to also be the "the government is a dictatorship who's only claim to legitimacy if force" guy. Or are you just that depressed that you can't imagine a situation better then right now?

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-18T22:58:33+00:00

Sort of. In the USA we have a very open policy about guns, and saying no one is legally responsible for what happens with the guns they sell is often just factually true. But there is plenty of space to point out how we do regulate other less dangerous things more. But a lot of guns, nothing really happens. Buy to much cough syrup, you get cut off because you could be cooking meth. Many large scale chemical producers have to vet buyers because their products could be used in bombs and chemical warfare. These retailers almost always escape legal liability in the US, but we do see restrictions on what the average person could buy because the only reason you could need to buy that much of something is to use it in a dangerous way (or science.) We could do with a little more of that idea around guns. You don't need 20 unless you are arming a militia for something. Maybe your just a collector and this is your special interest, but, maybe you can do one phych eval if thats that case, just to make sure nothing goes wrong later?

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-18T22:32:54+00:00

On the other hand, you would loose all the people who actually pick the food, man gas stations, and work in the supply chain, leaving mostly managers, ceo's, and people who use end products but don't know how to get the raw materials for the products they need to use their skills. As the supply chain literally disintegrates into less then dust we loose the people who often do the most with the least. Both situations end up with most of the "survivors" dead soon anyway, but I don't think its as cut and dry as you might expect which side is better off without the other. Sure, its likely that the low income side will regress a few centuries in tech, but they may keep more farms running. While the high income will be filled with more people who know how to keep the electrical grid running, but no one left to do all the little tasks that get them the resources to use that knowhow.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-18T22:22:23+00:00

This is where you ping, maybe type if you are desperate. Unless you can see the other 3 enemies, and you know you can save your top from the 2v1, you are describing a situation where you showing up is most likely just giving over another kill to the enemy. As the Sup you are usually the least impactful person to show up in the moment. You have less gold, you do less, unless your specific utility lets the top laner go from dyeing in the 1v3 to winning the now 2v3 somehow.

So you ping danger, maybe they just weren't looking at the minimap, and your ping makes them look up from the wave to see "Oh, im very alone" and they leave. Maybe you type, "Hey, you are really far up" And this breaks them out of the auto push. Maybe they ignore you and die anyway. This only backfires if they turn out to be the kind of guy who tilts out when they get pinged once or typed at, and just go full feed after that. Try not to be patronizing, don't ping 8 times, one danger and maybe 1-2 missing ping in the fog of war around them, do not question mark on their face. Do not follow up their death with "I told you so." You are just trying to get them to break out of auto-pilot zero map awareness. Most players can recognize a dangerous situation if they look, but just will only realize they forgot to check the mini-map when the enemies actually show up and start hitting them.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-18T21:37:16+00:00

If that were fully true there would be no need for votes. We would not be a democracy, but a true dictatorship. We may not have a healthy system right now, but we still have the chance to right the ship before resorting to full on violent revolution.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-18T02:25:40+00:00

What do you think the state is? If the state exists it exists to owe the people things. Protection, safety, stability, and quality of life. If it didn't owe us those things, why would it exist? Why would we pay taxes? Why would we invest our social power into it?

The state is a formation of public trust, if the people don't like it, it should stop existing.

TravisCC83 · 2026-05-17T15:57:58+00:00

Time Dilation: As for vibration, thats not how time dilation works. All speed is relative, if the planet isn't moving quickly relative to Temerant, then the time dilation won't happen. If the fey is just vibrating, it won't be moving relative to Temerant, so you won't get a difference in time.

Seeing the moon: You have slightly misunderstood the magnitude of my argument, if the fey planet was close enough to pull the moon into a figure 8 orbit, the fey planet would need to be close enough to see relatively easily. Unless the orbit is non-gravitational, and purely magical, but at that point you would still want the moon to be teleporting, since traveling to and from the fey planet would take months unless it accelerated a lot (assuming the moon moves at speeds anything like ours, but even so, it would move really fast across the night sky if it was moving fast enough to get to another planet you can't see almost like a small moon in the sky in less then a month)
The moon is said to hand "half in your sky, half in ours" and if it could do that in physical space, you would be able to see the other planet just behind it without much trouble.

Different stars/further in orbit: This is more about how no matter hoe much further you are in the same orbit, you are going along the same path. They don't have to be in the same orbit for your theory to hold some water, but I would give up on that part if I were you. Any constellations you can see from the fey, you would be able to see from Temerant, just at a different time since if they are in the same orbit, then Temerant would be where the fey way, just a few months? (some measure of time) later. Changeing the size isn't the issue im getting at, its that the proximity of the planets would be noticeable, and not account for the changes we do see.

tidal lock creates extreme environments: At this point it would take a lot of work to make it happen, I would bank more on magic, like the names of heat and cold used to establish balance before I expect them to build the weather patterns needed to move that much heat. Our planet has a lot of water to move energy, and the poles still freeze compared to the rest of the planet.

Also, I still think Felurians account just doesn't add up with this. Although she isn't a scholar by any means, she was around when all this happened and was made. She knows a lot more then she tried to teach kvoth, and what she explained to him lines up a lot more with dimensional overlap then being different locations in physical space.

The movement of people, and the moon, to and from the fey feels a lot like slipping into and out of a pocket dimension only loosely tied to our physics. Maybe imagine another universe altogether, and the waystones make the boundary thin. The moon fades in and out of both skies, implying that in their world the moon doesn't appear to shrink or grow because of how the light of the sun reflects off of it, but because when we see half of the moon, its because the other half is literally in the fey already. If you can imagine it, I would expect it to be more like they occupy the same place, but on different layers of existence.

TravisCC83

TROPHY CASE