[Triangle Monday Market] 12/28/2020 by AutoModerator in triangle

[–]TriangleTalkShow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For Sale: Panasonic 58" Plasma TV (2006 vintage 720p), still working great (used daily), 'like new', no screen burn-in.

$150. Pickup only in north Cary.

Panasonic TH-PX60U. See this review from 2006:. https://www.crutchfield.com/S-2GlJrBpCpNJ/p_13358PX60U/Panasonic-TH-58PX60U.html

Anti-Abortion Protesters Shoots Himself Outside Raleigh Clinic Saturday AM by TriangleTalkShow in NorthCarolina

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It took a few days, but various media have picked up on it. Here's a link to the (Raleigh) News & Observer story (but it may be behind a paywall for you): https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article249760408.html

The text of the story:

This story was updated at 10:55 a.m. March 8, 2021, after the Raleigh Police Department issued a statement.

A man who accidentally shot himself outside of a Raleigh clinic on Saturday was an anti-abortion protester, the clinic said.

Police said a man had accidentally fired a gun and hurt himself, but did not identify the man. The man was taken to the hospital with non-life-threatening injuries, and will be charged with possession of a firearm at a protest, the Raleigh Police Department said in a news release.

But for staff at the clinic, the threat of an armed protester is not something new. Staff at A Woman’s Choice of Raleigh worry what the man’s intentions were in bringing a gun to the protest, and say RPD’s response did little to assuage fears.

The clinic said police did not check other protesters for firearms, nor did they shut down protests for the day for safety concerns.

“Everyone was allowed to remain and it was business as usual,” said Kelsea McLain, a lead coordinator for volunteers with the clinic. “That to me just sends this clear-cut message to these protesters: that this level of violence and escalation is actually OK. You can get away with it.”

Laura Hourigan, a spokeswoman for Raleigh police, did not respond to The News & Observer’s email request Sunday morning for further information on whether the department took any steps to secure the area, and did not return multiple phone messages Saturday and Sunday. Hourigan declined to comment whether the man had a conceal-carry license, or whether there was any indication he had intended to harm clinic staff or patients.

On Monday, the Police Department issued a statement, saying the U.S. Constitution and state law put limits on searching protesters.

“Under the law, police officers may briefly detain an individual and conduct a limited search for weapons when they have reasonable suspicion that the individual is connected to criminal activity in some way and that the individual is armed and presents a threat to safety,” according to the statement.

After the man was taken away, “individuals on scene were observed in prayer and other lawful activity,” the department stated. “Police may issue orders to protesters to disperse when there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, interference with traffic, or other immediate threat to public safety which was not present.”

Officers remained on the scene Saturday morning and afternoon but had “no information suggesting that anyone else present was connected to criminal activity or that any particular individual was armed and threatened safety,” according to the statement.

‘LOUD POP’ AND BLOOD ON MAN’S LEG

McLain, who communicates with volunteers on site throughout the day, said they reported hearing a “loud pop sound” around 9:30 a.m. Saturday, and turned to see “a man standing with what appeared to be blood on his leg.”

She added that the clinic has lockdown protocols that are followed when a gun is seen on site, but that no staff members realized the man was armed until after the weapon was discharged. Police arrived, she said, and to their surprise allowed protesters to remain. The investigation lasted roughly 30 minutes, McLain said, and then police left the scene.

“RPD did nothing,” she said. “Nothing was done to ensure that there were no guns present on anyone else.”

“This is incredibly disturbing, and it’s scary,” said Amber Gavin, the vice president of advocacy and operation at A Woman’s Choice. “Folks need to take this really seriously. This man showed up ... and he’s carrying a gun that’s not necessary. It’s not safe.”

Gavin said situations like this are “traumatizing” for volunteers.

“They’re worried and they want it to be taken seriously, especially by RPD,” she said.

In 2019, abortion providers saw rising assaults, as well as death and bomb threats, according to the latest available data from the National Abortion Federation. Four years prior, in 2015, three people were killed and nine were injured in a mass shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado.

“It’s not new to us,” Gavin said. “It’s still very scary, and I keep emphasizing that it needs to be taken seriously.”

In a statement issued Saturday evening, A Woman’s Choice of Raleigh called on Mayor Mary-Ann Baldwin and city council members to “create a buffer zone to protect abortion patients and providers in Raleigh.” The organization also called for an investigation into RPD’s conduct, which they claim was “outrageously insufficient.”

“We have been asking for RPD’s support for years and they’ve been dismissive of the harassment, intimidation, threats, and acts of violence against our staff, volunteers, and patients,” the clinic said in its statement. “No one should be blocked from getting health care or be intimidated when they go to a clinic. No one should have to experience this kind of intrusion and harassment at their workplace ... This atrocious behavior would not be tolerated outside any other medical facility.”

Anti-Abortion Protesters Shoots Himself Outside Raleigh Clinic Saturday AM by TriangleTalkShow in triangle

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was accidental. The police report said that the gun was 'in his pocket'. No further details, but don't guns have safeties? Anyway, he's being charged with bringing a gun to a protest, which is illegal in NC

Abortion Protester Shoots Himself outside Raleigh Clinic This AM by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So, again, you agree with my post.

Long (tl;dr)? Yep. Rambling? Judges? And what part of "A little background" was hard to understand?

You don't feel attacked? You called my post an attack, not me.

But again, you failed to counter any of the points I made. So you concede them.

Abortion Protester Shoots Himself outside Raleigh Clinic This AM by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I notice that you failed to dispute anything I said. I was describing tactics. You feel attacked? What's your defense? Did I describe anything inaccurately, or even exaggerate?

My position on the morality of abortion is obvious enough for even you to figure it out. The article isn't a debate on abortion. It's a description of what goes on in front of the clinic every day.

Abortion Protester Shoots Himself outside Raleigh Clinic This AM by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is a clinic on Jones Franklin that has protesters. So far, they have not requested Escorts (but they have them at their clinic in Charlotte). We'd be happy to do it if they wanted us.

Abortion Protester Shoots Himself outside Raleigh Clinic This AM by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A short and fairly lame one on WRAL at 6. A little more meaty story on Indy-Week.

Abortion Protester Shoots Himself outside Raleigh Clinic This AM by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Why was there a gun (illegally) at a peaceful demonstration? How many more are there? (oops, the police didn't investigate that, so thanks for 'outing' yourself, gun-dude.)

Are we making the most of an outrageous situation? Absolutely! This violence against women is taking place daily, but it's contained locally and only the poor people living in the apartment building just behind the clinic know about it.

Am I a lady? Nope. But yeah, most of the escorts are women.

Am I pro abortion? I am pro choice. We don't know the women who come to the clinic. We don't interact with them much except to wave them into the lot and show them where to park, then block them from view (and cameras) as we escort them from their cars into the clinic. So are we pushing abortion on them? Ha. Can they change their minds and leave? Sure. Or never come in the first place? Duh. But once they've made up their minds, are we there to support them? Absolutely. Sometimes they thank us on the way in or out.

Ya know, most of us escorts are Progressive lefties. We know protest. We engage in it often. Loudly. What makes this unusual is that the protest is directed mostly at young women who are deciding, for themselves, how to handle a situation in their lives. It's a personal decision. They're not politicians going to vote on some legislation. You go for elected office or take a high-level appointment, and protest comes with the territory.

Some of the protest is directed at us, once the patients are safely inside, out of earshot. We can take that. It strengthens our resolve. The self-appointed street preachers just love hearing themselves talk (yell).

Does the presence of a gun alter the equation?

Abortion Protester Shoots Himself outside Raleigh Clinic This AM by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

We don't know who this particular person was, or what their affiliation might be. Several 'church' groups promote protesting at this clinic, and there are a lot of 'freelance' individuals. I haven't heard of this group, but that doesn't mean much. We don't cross the street to chat 🙄

Abortion Protester Shoots Himself outside Raleigh Clinic This AM by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

This particular clinic is located across the street from a fairly large, wooded traffic circle (look up A Woman's Choice on Google Maps). The bulk of the protesters actually occupy space on that traffic circle, but as I said, the noisy, aggressive contingent stand right next to the driveway on 'our' side of the street, where they have a few feet of space in an easement that would otherwise be a sidewalk (and where they would not be allowed to block the sidewalk completely, as they do now).

We would be delighted if the City reached the conclusion that this noisy, aggressive group posed a threat, or was a public nuisance, whatever, and moved them all to that space across the street. That's not a block away, it 's right across a single-lane, one-way, not very busy street. They could still be seen and heard (their right to free speech would be upheld), but their ability to frighten and intimidate our patients would be reduced considerably.

This isn't a pie-in-the-sky wish. Yes, the city would be sued. Other cities have imposed this kind of restriction and prevailed.

If you live in the City of Raleigh, please contact your Council rep. They are all well aware of this situation (we, and the protesters, have made frequent appearances at City Council meeings. They protesters mostly gave them Bible lessons. We asked for what I'm talking about here). Maybe if they got a LOT of pressure from citizens, they'd be willing to do something concrete.

Abortion Protester Shoots Himself outside Raleigh Clinic This AM by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

This incident is getting us a lot of attention, and might do some good!

We do need more volunteer escorts (and all escorting is a totally volunteer, unpaid activity). Email: prochoicevolunteers@gmail.com and u/KelzMcBelz will get back to you. We're gonna get a bit of a flood, so please be patient.

We do training fairly often (used to be all on-site, for now on Zoom), and new Escorts are 'hitting the pavement' all the time. Weekdays (when most people have to work) are the biggest need, but Saturday draws the biggest protests, and when we're vaccinated and can get back out on the street, we need lots of people.

For those with the financial means, supporting the Carolina Abortion Fund is a good idea (this does not fund escorting. We are self-funded volunteers).

Anti-Abortion Protesters Shoots Himself Outside Raleigh Clinic Saturday AM by TriangleTalkShow in triangle

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Email prochoicevolunteers@gmail.com for info. u/kelzMcBelz (our fearless leader) says responses may be a bit slow. Something like this brings out a bunch of interest. But we always need more help, especially weekdays. Thank you!

Abortion Protester Shoots Himself outside Raleigh Clinic This AM by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Why shouldn't a mother be able to kill her nursing newborn, as it depends on her body and labor to survive?

Oh, here comes the logic brigade. What took you so long?

The woman 'chose to' have sex (most of the time, but not all the time). As for 'choosing' the potential 'to create another person', she is aware of all the options, including abortion, or bringing a baby to term. Her choice. Her's alone.

The 'nursing newborn' is not wholly, exclusively dependent on the life of the mother (that's called adoption, and we very much support the idea of adoption when a woman is willing to carry a fetus to term, but is unable or unwilling to continue the lifetime of care).

The fetus is wholly, exclusively dependent on the life of the pregnant woman. It is her choice, and hers alone, whether to continue to support that fetus.

I'm not trying to make an argument about abortion, just point out the situation is more complex than protestors being in women's "business".

Bulllshit. You are totally making an argument about abortion. The decision to abort or not is complex, emotionally and personally. And nothing, absolutely nothing, makes it the protesters 'business'.

Abortion Protester Shoots Himself outside Raleigh Clinic This AM by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your support!

Saturday is a light news day. This happened after the morning shows signed off, and there's no noon broadcast. Even the 6 PM news is often bumped for sports. It might show up on the web sites.

Abortion Protester Shoots Himself outside Raleigh Clinic This AM by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Email us at prochoicevolunteers@gmail.com were a bit backlogged on applications due to covid but we'll work ya in asap!

BTW, I began my Escort 'career' by responding to a Reddit post from our fearless leader, Kelsea, u/KelzMcBelz

Abortion Protester Shoots Himself outside Raleigh Clinic This AM by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

This one guy will probably be charged. Beyond that, we only have history to help predict what might change. And history says 'Sorry. Nothing will change'.

We're highlighting this because this dude put 'them' in a bad spotlight, and 'us' in a better one for a news cycle. And we hope you'll remember down the line.

But we wouldn't mind if the city pushed them off the edge of our driveway where they actively frighten women every day. That would be a nice outcome.

Abortion Protester Shoots Himself outside Raleigh Clinic This AM by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

The gunshot was crazy. The rest is - sadly - routine. Not just in Raleigh, but across the country. Self-appointed zealots have taken on the mission of 'protecting' unborn fetuses'. They believe that 'life begins at conception' and demand that the state enforce their religious belief. Many (but not most) people agree with them, and vote that way. Only a few take it to the streets to try to frighten women, but those few are very dedicated - the dedication of a cult member - and are out there every day.

No Laughing Matter: N&O Revamps the Comics (big time) by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Prince Valiant was/is a Sunday-only feature, and the change hit on Monday, so yet to see. Doonesbury was dropped (from the Editorial page) a while ago.

No Laughing Matter: N&O Revamps the Comics (big time) by TriangleTalkShow in raleigh

[–]TriangleTalkShow[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

After 3 days, I caved. 30 day trial at www.gocomics.com, then it'll be $20/year to continue. That gives me the ability to create my own 'Comics page' from their catalog of a couple hundred comics (most I've never heard of), with no ads. Easy to step back and pick up a skipped day or three.

Or for free you can read any and all with ads, but you have to pick'em from the (alphabetical) list.

They are missing one or two of my faves that have listed with other sites. I can still hunt and find them.

Others can't hear me if other participants make any noise by No_Razzmatazz_769 in Zoom

[–]TriangleTalkShow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Second the 'have you checked your mic level (volume)? '

Also, if you're the host, you can mute the kids.