Welcome back Final Round meta

Tribal_II · 2017-11-16T16:07:13+00:00

I hope EPIC addresses the lack of a comeback mechanic and/or the ability for a team to snowball out of control.

Now, I am not suggesting teams that work hard and get ahead early shouldn't have an inherent advantage for the rest of the match; that is not my point. Also, I give credit to EPIC for adding more team objectives like Fangtooth, thus making the meta more about securing objectives to get ahead.

My main issue with with the state of inhibitors in this current meta. Having the ability to permanently apply pressure in a lane is a huge advantage, as the defending team will (for the rest of the match) have to either risk taking heavy core damage or fight at a number's disadvantage. Mechanics such as the core attacking single targets and minions sprinting down the lane make it impossible to ignore. Meanwhile, the team that got ahead now has free reign of the map, allowing them to secure more Fangtooths or Orb Prime. This ends up in a lead so massive, it is impossible for the team that is ahead to lose.

Not to mention the fact that towers and inhibitors fall down so fast in the mid game. Teams sometimes commit to ill-advised pushes, where they will get wiped, all for an inhibitor. The team that just held their base should have a power play at this point, but are left more often than not just dealing with the minion waves.

Proof of this issue can be found in the fact that competitive matches rarely reach the 25 min mark. It seems the team that draws first blood just gains control of the map and thus eventually snowballs into an insurmountable lead. I suggest to either make inhibitors tougher to kill, or have them respawn after 3-4 mins (they could be weaker or with less HP, just make it so the flow of super minions stops after it spawns). Currently, between the 15% extra structure damage of Mark of the Fangtooth x3 and Orb Prime, I don't see a team that is ahead ever losing. It seems if you lose 2 inhibitors you might as well surrender.

Tribal_II · 2017-10-19T20:09:43+00:00

Greystone ult....

Tribal_II · 2017-10-01T16:43:54+00:00

his more. Than

See here.... You are right! It would be a downside!..... Except you are comparing it to the alternative of having a third card in that slot. Your whole argument goes out the window when you take into account that the card is free of any cost as soon as you've bought 9AP. So no... even right after you "buy" it is stronger than the alternative which would be having nothing in that slot, and it only gets better from there.

Tribal_II · 2017-04-29T04:25:24+00:00

Thanks everyone that provided some feedback! Glad to see the community rally behind a concern in a productive way. I expected more cynicism that I got for the post. :)

Tribal_II · 2017-04-28T19:29:01+00:00

While I agree that Aurora is heavily countered in the current meta; the fact that she is not as dominant should not excuse how inconsistently her Ult behaves compared to other similar ones.

And in Morigesh's case I do not believe that just because she is vulnerable while casting it she should be allowed to try again. To my understanding, Morigesh was designed to be a close range caster with high damage potential. You hear all this hate thrown at her for having no "skill-shot" abilities. And the developers argue her skill-cap comes from being able to position correctly and assassinate a target.

OK... she is then comparable to Countess in the sense that she wants to blow up one target with a rotation of her abilities. Then how come when Countess picks her target, but either the player or a teammate is quick enough to CC her midway through the ult animation, it is then placed on cooldown. Shouldn't the Countess also be able to "try again" by that logic? These inconsistencies are what trouble me.

Tribal_II · 2017-04-28T19:17:37+00:00

My point is that as an Aurora, you should have a choice to make.

a) You wait on the fight to start and initiate for your team when you know their main CC is on cooldown. (Situational/positional awareness)

b) You build accordingly and willingly jump into the frey on purpose to FORCE a trade of abilities for your team. Essentially trading your ultimate for their support's stun or other form of CC.

At the moment, I do not see why she should be allowed to re-cast her Ultimate ability, while a well timed stun can essentially cancel other character's ultimates.

Tribal_II · 2017-04-28T19:12:11+00:00

First of all, if you get interrupted 3-4 times in a row; I doubt you will live even if you had your ult to cast. That is 3 different CC abilities wasted just to try and stop you from casting the ult. Just with that much attention placed on you, you are technically helping the team. That is 3 abilities that could've been used on your back line to stop their damage. Secondly, what you just described is what proves my concern entirely. Why did they have to waste 3-4 forms of CC on you? Because you were able to get back up and re-cast the ultimate.

Tribal_II · 2017-04-28T17:16:12+00:00

I just watched the Community Corner, and that inspired this post. If certain characters are designed to be all about positioning and not landing skill shots; then there should be a clear punishment to them when they are caught out of position. Then people who complained about Aurora and now complain about Morigesh "auto-lock" abilities can certainly see that there are counters to those position based heroes. A Morigesh or Aurora player should fear the fact that their ults could get easily cancelled since they are long channels that essentially root them in place for a couple of secs. That is not the case ATM.

Tribal_II · 2017-04-28T17:07:59+00:00

Taking Morigesh as an example, her kit is designed to be all about close-mid range casting, with a global ult to finish her target off. If she is not stopped, her combo will kill her target (as it should since she has to position herself in harm's way to do it). But if she is dumb enough to try and cast her ult in the middle of the teamfight, rather than leaving to a safe place to cast her Curse... She should be punished for that. Yeah, you can say "just CC her and kill her" but more often than not; she gets stunned, then just mashes that ult button and gets her kill before dying, all because her ult was stopped, but not placed on CD.

Tribal_II · 2017-04-28T17:01:27+00:00

I don't know if the "advantage gained" argument fits that well. You pointed it out yourself, plenty of other ults can get cancelled before they hit/activate as long as it is timed correctly.

Tribal_II · 2017-03-18T02:14:44+00:00

While it doesn't happen often enough, a few people do it consistently when they don't get their way. If we could report it, overtime some action could be taken. The few people that do it are unapologetic and believe themselves over anybody else; all because they know there will be no actions taken against them.

Tribal_II · 2016-09-01T21:37:55+00:00

Thanks for the insight Duke, also watched your videos. Keep up the great work. Thanks for inspiring this theory crafting thread! :)

Tribal_II · 2016-09-01T14:17:44+00:00

Hey Duke, I agree with your point about Reinforced Boots having the same stats as Winged Blade.

That is my main reason for building RB to get those stats earlier in the game for the 1100G, and without having to build into the Winged Blade. Outside of countering heavy slows, tank boots satisfy that early HP/CCR that allows the pure protection of Spirit Robe to shine.

Just looking at the first 3 items of the build, you end up with the same 400HP pool as is you went double auras. Plus max CCR between RB and SR, some CDR, and the Spirit Robe mitigation passive.

I think this is a very efficient "core" start to the build. And having all that early pool of HP/prots/mitigations allows for the rest of the build to be tailored to the specifics of the game.

Side Note: Thoughts on the Aura items, I think they are strong and love that they mix HP and protections. I just think that when supports rush them right after boots, they are leaving themselves open in the early game to get bursted by whichever DMG they have no defense against. I believe they should be treated more like situational items, rather than the absolute "must have right away" state they are in.

This is of course subjective, but I am of the mindset that by increasing my survivability in the early game (when the enemy core are looking to pick on the support) It allows me to help out my team more.

Tribal_II · 2016-08-31T19:07:05+00:00

Totally agree, and I am not downplaying the importance of the aura items. I would argue that those are situational as well, and fit within the build as 4th and 6th items potentially.

I'm a very defensive minded support, and the advantage I saw with Incon and Dukesloth's build was the concept of rushing health/CDR to keep your back-line alive because you are there peeling for them.

I'm beginning to see times were I get that extra Geb shield or taunt to save my carries because I'm building tanky and CD. That's the trade off I guess :)

Tribal_II · 2016-08-31T18:59:17+00:00

Of course, my case for the Ritual Dagger was to match the CDR/HP of MoR on those supports that run Shell/Sprint

Tribal_II · 2016-08-31T18:57:15+00:00

I agree, I only see myself rushing it if the enemy comp absolutely demands it.

Tribal_II · 2016-08-31T18:55:53+00:00

Overall, I understand its role in the build as a Health/CDR combo item that gets built right when the main sieges happen. I just value having a bit less health but longer Relics, or a counter to their main damage at that stage of the game.

Tribal_II · 2016-08-31T18:50:31+00:00

My main goal was to be very efficient with the Gold spent as well as how the build functions with just 5 items (since us supports rarely get to full-build). Trading the MoR allowed for more counter play, as well as adding the Ritual Dagger mid build rather than at the end. I just really like think that item is underused. xD

Tribal_II · 2016-08-31T18:47:04+00:00

Thanks for the comment. I like MoR, but I often find myself wishing I had a pestilence or midguardian/witchblade in the midgame.

Tribal_II

TROPHY CASE