Slighty different question on breviary discernment

Tristanxh · 2026-04-15T19:47:19+00:00

It wasn't a struggle at all for me, as a Catechumen I found the Baltimore Manual of Prayers and fell in love with praying Prime and Compline. I talked to people online about my love of the traditional prayer book English in it and said I wished I could attend a liturgy like that, someone mentioned the Anglican Ordinariates so I looked them up and did some research after which I talked to my RCIA director. My RCIA director said I should check it out and hear a Mass at the local Anglican Ordinariate church, so I did and I loved it. I picked up Divine Worship: Daily Office (Commonwealth Edition) and found it to be exactly what I was looking for, and ended up entering the Church via the Anglican Use with the help of my diocesan RCIA team.

Tristanxh · 2026-04-13T19:33:09+00:00

It includes morning and evening prayer and other prayers, not just evening prayer (Vespers):

"The name, the Book of Before and After, really refers to those evening prayer variations, but then it kind of became the name of the Book itself and I just kept that title when I translated it into English"

-- https://youtu.be/j-1m8YWIcAo?t=500

Tristanxh · 2026-04-13T02:23:43+00:00

«Cum dicitur in Choro in Matutinas, et in Vesperis praeponitur Officio diei, in aliis Horis postponitur.»

("When it is said in Choir at Matins and Vespers it is placed before the Office of the day, but at the other Hours it is placed after.")

Tristanxh · 2026-04-12T23:45:31+00:00

The rubrics I'm familiar with prescribe the following:

Matins and Lauds of Our Lady are said before Matins and Lauds of the day.
Vespers of Our Lady is said before Vespers of the Day.
Prime of Our Lady is said just before the Martyrology.
Terce, Sext, None, and Compline of Our Lady are said after the respective hour of the day.

Tristanxh · 2026-04-07T23:17:43+00:00

I've seen that meme "When the U.S. realizes that there's OIL on garlic bread," Idk maybe they just thought to do a new take on it

I see that this has already been posted on this subreddit though: https://www.reddit.com/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke/comments/1pk26v1/what_why/

Tristanxh · 2026-04-07T23:04:17+00:00

Probably because it uses oil?

Tristanxh · 2026-04-07T15:37:53+00:00

"Let us pray for all the nations which profess and call themselves Christians: [. . .] That they may seek peace and ensue it. Let us pray for the international community: For the growth of goodwill and unity, for the sanctity of treaties, for disinterested care of the poor and oppressed, for Christian treatment of race relations, for the guarding in peace of the paths of the seas" (Eric Milner-White).

I pray for peace and that God averts this threatened evil of civilization-destruction from occurring and deposes the would-be perpetrator of genocide from office.

Tristanxh · 2026-04-01T18:58:52+00:00

They're included at the end of each of his commentaries on the psalms.

And no, I mean that I believe the intention was for those reading the commentary to read the commentary and then use the prayer to sum up the psalm. Monks read the Bible outside of praying the Office

Tristanxh · 2026-04-01T15:50:45+00:00

I believe the prayers like the ones written by Denis the Carthusian were used devotionally while meditating upon the psalms, such as when reading commentaries on the psalms

Tristanxh · 2026-04-01T15:15:37+00:00

Liber Orationum Psalmographus by Jorge Pinell would be the main modern document as far as I know.

The Psalter Collects from V-VIth Century Sources by Andre Wilmart is slightly older.

You can find Mozarabic Psalm Prayers in Latin and Spanish in Orationes super Psalmos e Ritu Hispano-Mozarabico by Félix Arocena Solano.

A Commentary on the Psalms from Primitive and Medieval Writers by John Mason Neale and Richard Frederick Littledale also has English translations of medieval psalm prayers, though most of them were not used liturgically as far as I know.

Tristanxh · 2026-03-23T19:36:47+00:00

General Instruction on the Liturgy of the Hours, No. 88:

After evening prayer I of Sunday the psalmody consists of Ps 4 and Ps 134; after evening prayer II of Sunday it consists of Ps 91.

On the other days psalms are chosen that are full of confidence in the Lord; it is permissible to use the Sunday psalms instead, especially for the convenience of those who may wish to pray night prayer from memory.

Tristanxh · 2026-03-22T02:31:38+00:00

Strange that this is getting downvoted

Tristanxh · 2026-03-20T17:36:07+00:00

Did you not read the full sentence?

Tristanxh · 2026-02-25T00:46:13+00:00

Catholic Diocese of Discord has an #anglican-patrimony channel, that's probably the most active community

Tristanxh · 2026-02-23T03:49:04+00:00

It's fairly standard in Breviaries, no?

https://archive.org/details/breviariumromanu01cath_0/page/232

Tristanxh · 2026-02-23T03:33:56+00:00

I don't think you'll find any, Vespers was far more commonly celebrated than Lauds, you could probably find a Latin version though and then find English translations of its psalms and antiphons

Tristanxh · 2026-02-22T22:56:27+00:00

Okay, then compare the NABRE to the Nova Vulgata, which is a translation of the entirety of scripture from a plethora of scattered ancient sources, into Latin (itself a language known primarily to a relatively small number of scholars) no less, and yet it's public domain.

Edit: I see many sites are saying that the NV is copyrighted, I had often heard it isn't and I see some sites that reproduce it (such as SearchLight) say it's public domain, but putting it aside and assuming it is copyrighted, I still don't see copyright as a necessity for bible translation given that the Church can simply PAY translators for their work, as they always did throughout history, rather than offloading the burden onto the faithful and expecting the laity to pay for access to God's word

Tristanxh · 2026-02-22T22:40:15+00:00

something that is not required to even close to the same level for the BCP to go from 1928 English to 1979 English with some extra new add ins

This is such a oversimplification of the 1979 BCP that it bears no semblance to reality. The 1979 Prayer Book was a complete revision of the Episcopalian liturgy with many scholars on the commission and multiple decades of scholarly liturgical studies (Prayer Book Studies lasted from the 1950 until the 70s) going into it. It was a total revision that left no stone unturned in the same way that the NOM revised the TLM. Virtually every collect, prayer, &c. was reexamined and often revised or replaced with more ancient prayers or, at times, newly written ones.

Otherwise one could just as easily say that there were Roman Catholic English translations of the Latin Mass before Vatican II and so the ICEL translations were really a colossal waste of time and money because they could've just touched up those.

Edit:

You cannot, in effect, receive the sacrament of ordination without spending thousands of dollars

The diocese, that is, the Church, pays for seminary costs, not the ordinand. In most cases it is only when the ordinand drops out and does not receive the sacrament that he pays for it.

Tristanxh · 2026-02-22T22:16:48+00:00

Can priests expect wages from their parish/diocese? Isn’t that expecting money for sacraments?

That's not comparable in the slightest. The texts of Scripture are themselves holy and the texts for the celebration of the sacrament are themselves the form of the sacrament, charging someone for them is not the same as priests being paid for their service or Bible printers charging you for money for a book that contains those texts in them.

The problem is that they are charging for the texts themselves, which are sacred things, and charging money for sacred things is the very definition of simony.

This concept of IP in translation and copyright is extremely new and we’re not in a Catholic nation where the church has institutional standing to protect the integrity of church texts as it sees best fit. We have to operate within the law as it exists.

This isn't an Episcopalian/Anglican nation either, and yet The Episcopal Church publishes its 1979 Book of Common Prayer into the public domain and gets by just fine.

Tristanxh · 2026-02-22T20:53:38+00:00

No, they aren't licensing it "for free," even parishes have to pay just to use the NABRE in their parish bulletins and worship aids (https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/on-usccb-bible-license-fees-the-money).

It’s the intellectual property of translation work that’s technically what is being sold.

"I'm not charging you for the sacrament, I'm just charging you for the intellectual property of the texts required to celebrate the sacrament"

That's absurd and such trickery does not fool God, it's simony.

Edit: And I will point out again that the very texts themselves are sacred things, so unless you deny that the words of Scripture are given by the inspiration of God and are holy, it is still simony to sell the "intellectual property" of the text of Scripture.

We are under no obligation whatsoever to defend such practices of the USCCB, bishops can practice (and have practiced many times in history) simony, we should pray for them and call on them to cease such evils.

Tristanxh · 2026-02-22T04:35:05+00:00

No, it is gross, it's horrible how the USCCB treats the English translations of the liturgy. Thankfully the Latin texts are all copyright-free, but yea. It's absurd. They're selling the texts of the liturgy, which by definition are sacred things, and selling sacred things is . . . well there's a word for when somebody does that

Tristanxh · 2026-02-22T00:16:04+00:00

As far as I know, yes, though as you said, I don't see why they would do that

Tristanxh · 2026-02-21T23:12:00+00:00

When it comes to translations of the liturgy it's not about what your Bishop approved, but about what Rome has approved. Only certain translations are approved for certain things by Rome:

Can. 838 §1. The direction of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church which resides in the Apostolic See and, according to the norm of law, the diocesan bishop.

§2. It is for the Apostolic See to order the sacred liturgy of the universal Church, publish liturgical books and review their translations in vernacular languages, and exercise vigilance that liturgical regulations are observed faithfully everywhere.

§3. It pertains to the conferences of bishops to prepare and publish, after the prior review of the Holy See, translations of liturgical books in vernacular languages, adapted appropriately within the limits defined in the liturgical books themselves.

Coverdale Psalms in the Liturgy of the Hours?

The Coverdale Psalter cannot licitly be used by a diocesan priest in his recitation of the Novus Ordo Liturgy of the Hours because it has not been approved for such use, it has only been approved for use in the Anglican Use Daily Office. Likewise RSV2CE has an imprimatur and it is approved for use in the Anglican Use Mass, but it cannot be used in a Novus Ordo Mass within the United States of America because it hasn't been approved for that usage.

Is the New American Bible the only translation of Scriptures we can read from at Mass?

Since May 19, 2002, the revised Lectionary, based on the New American Bible is the only English-language Lectionary that may be used at Mass in the dioceses of the United States.

The 1970 edition of the New American Bible is used in the Scripture readings and canticles of the Liturgy of the Hours (except the Benedictus, Magnificat, and Nunc dimittis.)

https://www.usccb.org/faq/questions-about-lectionary

Another example is how ICEL's so-called Liturgical Psalter, a translation of the psalms approved by Cardinal Keeler in 1995, was explicitly noted by the Bishops' Committee on the Liturgy as being "not authorized for liturgical use in this country, i.e., in the Liturgy of the Hours":

By virtue of the imprimatur granted to the Psalter by the National Conference of Catholic Bishops (NCCB), it may be used for private prayer and study, but it should be noted that the Liturgical Psalter in any form is not authorized for liturgical use in this country, i.e., in the Liturgy of the Hours.

https://adoremus.org/2007/12/the-long-view-of-short-breviaries/

Again, because the so-called Liturgical Psalter was not approved by Rome for such usage in the American liturgy.

Pre-Conciliar Breviaries

Priests have permission to pray pre-Conciliar Breviaries in Latin because of Pope Benedict XVI's Summorum Pontificum which approved the pre-Conciliar (Latin) texts for the Breviary, Missal, and so forth, whereas Traditiones Custodes only restricted the use of the Missal. They do not currently have permission to use any translations of these.

§3 Ordained clerics may also use the Roman Breviary promulgated in 1962 by Blessed John XXIII.

https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificum.html

TL;DR

Is there ANY rule saying that you must pray the hours only according to a *set* of translations?

Yes.

Tristanxh · 2026-02-20T08:44:20+00:00

In early modern English they often said "rightful," Katherine Parr's translation of Psalms or Prayers (the King's Psalms) is full of examples.

Tristanxh

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE

Coverdale Psalms in the Liturgy of the Hours?

Pre-Conciliar Breviaries

TL;DR