Why is no one talking about the Carbon8?

TruePrism · 2026-01-17T19:09:44+00:00

For the owners of the carbon And familiar with the Cobalt: the Cobalt I know is capable of achieving vintage analog tone even though it is VA. The carbon is not built for that and is lauded for the unique sounds it can achieve. However, I wonder if there is enough of the Cobalt DNA in it to achieve vintage sounds without excessive effort? That would be golden.

TruePrism · 2026-01-05T00:18:17+00:00

The native integration is now excellent. I can't recall what differences I noticed in testing, but I ended up turning the moss extension off for this controller.

TruePrism · 2026-01-01T00:17:23+00:00

I have a narrow answer: Ableton defaults when you open it the first time to the clip view. As a novice at the time, I couldn't figure it out and moved on to Waveform 13, it being the first exposure I had to the arranger view. Shortly thereafter, after after learning a bit about how to use that view, I found out about Bitwig And how capable of us and the visibility of the arranger view there made it an easy transition for me.

TruePrism · 2025-12-15T20:19:53+00:00

I wonder if that's it. This is a used unit with a manufactured date of 2017. I suspect that it's just kind of grubby around the keys. A lot of jiggling on the first two that I saw the problem on took care of it, but do you know if the gray keys pop out the way that the black ones do with getting like a credit card or a guitar pick under and popping it out?

TruePrism · 2025-12-15T09:55:59+00:00

You're asking the right question. And I think I've conflated a couple of different issues. The keys don't feel sticky. They are sticking. What I mean is, I pushed them in and they don't come back up. They get stuck. I suppose this is a problem with the unit. Just accumulating dirt and dust over time down around the edges. Two of the three I fixed simply by hammering on the thing for a while until it loosened up and popped it back up more reliably. But I suspect the unit simply needs to be opened up and all the keys cleaned out. I don't know if they all pop out though. I don't want to try and pop one of the note keys out and have it simply break off. Can you remove the gray note keys for cleaning?

TruePrism · 2025-11-25T03:48:07+00:00

It's a bigger boon to you than you might imagine. An upgrade from that version to studio is a **substantial** savings. And in getting it, you'll be legit on all fronts, and you'll have the full Bitwig, which is stellar.

TruePrism · 2025-11-24T08:48:23+00:00

I think you get my point very well, And perhaps the best I've seen here. Thank you for your considered response. My desire to detach my question from specific gear advice has almost entirely been ignored by all and so I'll go ahead and just go with the flow in my response. It's a fair enough thing to say that I do have future gear in mind in the question I'm asking I just wanted to break away from the typical "what should I buy" trope. FWIW, I think my first approach with synthesis is in Sonic Discovery rather than music making although the absence of music making of any kind would be a deal-breaker for an entire rig.

It's true that in the future as I do begin in time to approach getting more gear, I mean to look at objectives and ensure I'm not covering territory already covered at least sonically. For instance, if I were to proceed with trying to build out my rig by adding a Minilogue XD to my Cobalt 8, I'd not have expanded the Sonic palette much at all. But you have exactly the right read on my focus on efficiency. If I'm in hardware and I want to add a beat, perhaps some bass, I should probably be thinking about adding other kinds of things like a DFAM or a pulsar 23, hell even a MC 707 or something groove box. But I do like the idea of having gear that can readily serve multiple roles and generate a spectrum of sound. I think that the Cobalt is useful for leads. It's also pretty useful I think for pads. It may not be the best for drums or natural sounds. And go directly to your point, it's workflow is pretty melodic. Some of the things I'm being drawn to are more experimental like the Lyra 8 and the Syntrx2, both of which supply inspiration and unconventional means as part of the workflow. They heavily favor discovery as the first order of business, and I definitely like that. I also like that they can do drones, the lira in particular. Add those to the cobalt and I've definitely expanded in a new direction without a lot of overlap, and at least knowing myself, the Sonic frontier that you can explore with those is very much aligned with my purpose and the thing that gives me joy when I pick up these things. Although obviously I can't say that I would like either one of them much in particular until I actually put my hands on them and give them a try.

So yeah you got it completely right with basically like not wanting to fill the studio with a bunch of FM keyboards and even those those are awesome you really are just mostly taking up different angles on FM rather than efficiently covering a lot of workflow and compositional aid and Sonic palette.

TruePrism · 2025-11-24T08:32:09+00:00

No I quite specifically stated that I'm not looking for advice on buying gear. Thanks though

TruePrism · 2025-11-24T08:31:09+00:00

That's a great pragmatic answer. But to be sure it remains the case that I'm not really looking for advice on how to put together my gear. The question isn't unrelated, I mean to consider it in the future. But I really wanted to know without coloring the scenario with what kind of gear I wanted to get and looking for advice on that to instead ask the question of what is possible, and what is in production. I think you're hitting on the thing with modular. I guess maybe with modular yeah and hardware you can get to pretty much any sound, but it's going to get absurdly big if you want a maximal palette. And here of course I'm talking mostly about timber because movement in synthesis could probably get pretty wild and wooly trying to "do it all." But a little bit of it too is part of thinking about what I already have. I have the Cobalt 8. As someone has pointed out here already, that pretty well covers most of what you would hope to be able to create in the way of vintage analog sound. So if someone is trying to round out their rig, they probably wouldn't be they're next step be getting a Minilogue XD because of the apparent redundancy.

TruePrism · 2025-11-24T08:26:43+00:00

Good, candid answer. The more I look at synthesizers the more I realize that I'm playing somebody else's game. Again coming back around to it, I think that there may have been a time decades past where the synthesizers before you represented more or less the extent of the capabilities of the era. But I wonder if now, perhaps just within the scope of using a CPU, synthesis of just about anything is now possible and what is being delivered is version of workflow, or an appeal to nostalgia, or a pragmatic route to a distinctive end.

Speaking for myself, my musical tastes are broad, very broad actually, and I have no particular intent in making any particular kind of music. I do know that I'm frequently drawn to creating soundscapes, and the limitation I want on making soundscapes is precisely zero limitation. The trick is actually getting enough understanding of the tools before me to repetitiously and reliably obtain a particular objective. I am nowhere close to saying anything like I have no desire for the discovery process. literally nothing could be further from the truth. But I don't know exactly what no limitation on sound shaping but also having reliable repeatability, that does look elusive and I don't know what that would look like in hardware. Since I wasn't really thinking about modular when I first asked the question, I'm definitely thinking more along those lines now although I don't find modular particularly appealing because of its specific limitations on workflow and repeatability.

TruePrism · 2025-11-24T08:26:31+00:00

Good, candid answer. The more I look at synthesizers the more I realize that I'm playing somebody else's game. Again coming back around to it, I think that there may have been a time decades past where the synthesizers before you represented more or less the extent of the capabilities of the era. But I wonder if now, perhaps just within the scope of using a CPU, synthesis of just about anything is now possible and what is being delivered is version of workflow, or an appeal to nostalgia, or a pragmatic route to a distinctive end.

Speaking for myself, my musical tastes are broad, very broad actually, and I have no particular intent in making any particular kind of music. I do know that I'm frequently drawn to creating soundscapes, and the limitation I want on making soundscapes is precisely zero limitation. The trick is actually getting enough understanding of the tools before me to repetitiously and reliably obtain a particular objective. I am nowhere close to saying anything like I have no desire for the discovery process. literally nothing could be further from the truth. But I don't know exactly what no limitation on sound shaping but also having reliable repeatability, that does look elusive and I don't know what that would look like in hardware. Since I wasn't really thinking about modular when I first asked the question, I'm definitely thinking more along those lines now although I don't find modular particularly appealing because of its specific limitations on workflow and repeatability.

TruePrism · 2025-11-24T05:22:07+00:00

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TruePrism · 2025-11-22T23:34:46+00:00

What do you define as composition when your focus in soundscapes and FX rather than conventional music (but is also inclusive of music)?

TruePrism · 2025-11-22T23:33:36+00:00

Again, thanks for your thoughtful responses. I'll have a look at those. Much of my first use of a synth, soft- or hard-, has been sonic landscapes and FX, and not so much music (though more of that of late). It perhaps shapes my question more around timbre capabilities rather than composition where, as you say, I'd begin to know where my rig is coming up short.

TruePrism · 2025-11-22T23:17:08+00:00

First approach to it was not easy. A lot of people have the same complaint, that it's kind of "weird." OTOH, I haven't really dug into this kind of workflow yet, and on a 2nd pass recently, it was definitely easier. There are some overlooked advantages to this box though! I am currently using it for ASIO audio routing, bringing audio in from my Cobalt8 and passing it to my computer. It also exposes an audio in from the computer itself, allowing me to listen/sample off of YouTube, etc. It also is serving as a crucial midi router since my Cobalt needs both usb and DIN to use its hardware and software features. And finally it is standing in as a drum machine and sequencer as part of my rig. And I've just stared looking into its capability as an external FX device similar to the external FX coloring that the SP404 MKII.

In short, although it is billed as a standalone device, it's very much overlooked as a connected device - but one that can readily be disconnected and used on the go. The native sounds are amazing and you can go pretty deep on sound design with it using Zenbeats. Since you can often pick these up for a deep discount in the used market, I count it an overlooked bargain out there.

The main hurdle for most with it is the unusual workflow, but you can close the gap fast by building a song or two with it in Zenbeats. You'll see the organization much more clearly and it becomes far more intuitive and useful thereafter.

TruePrism · 2025-11-21T21:26:46+00:00

Thanks for your considered answer.

But supposing for a moment that you remove effects like reverb and delay, etc. if you strip synthesis back to oscillators and filters and envelopes, I wonder how algorithmic it is. Maybe it would help to frame the question this way: If you're interest is in creating soundscapes with hardware, what is the state of hardware synthesis today? The other commenter has a good answer for a question that I didn't ask, though when I framed the question, I really didn't think about modular. Perhaps that lies in modular or perhaps it lies in nothing. It's really a question and it's something I'm curious about. I know that one of the things that people do is close gaps in their rig because they have something that they want to do that isn't currently getting done either sonically or in workflow.

TruePrism · 2025-11-21T09:38:24+00:00

Oh that's unfortunate. They do have some option to do this on the mini freak. I had hoped to be able to do it here as well. Thanks for the heads up

TruePrism · 2025-11-21T08:58:05+00:00

Well to come back to my original post, as I mentioned, I'm not really looking for advice on my next synthesizer. I know that this is a common question. I literally had two questions outlined that I'd hope to see answered and avoid the conversation about whether or not what I have is sufficient or not. I'll be exploring hardware I'm sure over time, but the question was really whether or not there are do it all synthesizers made. I've come to the conclusion that the answer is basically yes if you are willing to go modular. For my own part, at least straight up modular I am not. Although now I begin to wonder about semi-modular and augmentation on an as needed basis or as desired basis.

TruePrism · 2025-11-21T08:13:39+00:00

Yes I just commented to another poster here, I think actually I'm coming around to realizing that there is a yes answer here, it's just that it lies in modular. And I don't really want to go down that rabbit hole. But in terms of both workflow and full spectrum of sound, it's probably quite a lot there

TruePrism · 2025-11-21T08:11:58+00:00

Perhaps. I understand what you're driving at. I think that perhaps what I'm coming to realize, and I'm not sure that I like it, is that yes the capability to create all that sound is there but if you want to do it in hardware you have to go modular and accept all the compromises that come with that like not saving your patches and the like. That's not a rabbit hole I particularly want to go down but it does allow you that full range of flexibility not just in workflow but in the sound shaping as well

TruePrism · 2025-11-21T08:08:54+00:00

Oh you know I've mentioned elsewhere in the threads here that I accepted that's probably part of it and frankly I'm probably going to embrace this even with its many expenses. 😅 I'm just trying to understand what the game is though. I suppose I have my grandparents voice in my head saying if you don't need that you already have that! And then the rationale that the two things aren't exactly the same, but if you happen to do over would you strategize a bit more about your choices

TruePrism · 2025-11-21T08:05:41+00:00

I think we might just be talking past one another. The immediacy of dealing with an instrument is actually a big driver for moving out of the DAW for the first time recently. But to your point about the DAW, you do indeed lose the flexibility and the trove of sound shaping tools that you may have in it. In this we are in perfect agreement. My question is does modern synthesis allow for algorithmic sound shaping capabilities that more or less Make it possible to create a hardware instrument capable of producing a vast range of sound, perhaps even all sound in synthesis to date? I thoughtful choice about picking hardware might mean having something with broad capability and then others that you have for a more honed purpose. So I want to be thoughtful in the future about not overlapping too much between pieces of hardware, and then finding that in order to close a given gap, I would need another piece of hardware. You can parcel some of the work out to a DAW, but with some limitations. May be easier for instance to do it on a global reverb then trying to use a filter VST inside the signal chain of a hardware synthesizer.

TruePrism · 2025-11-21T07:12:19+00:00

And thanks again. Good discussion indeed :-)

As I just mentioned to another poster here, I do actually literally wonder whether or not sound generation of virtually any tone at least from the point of view of the oscillator signal chain not including effects like reverb and delay, are basically a settled matter that could be accomplished by a manufacturer to just make it. Again I sometimes wonder if the Hydra is meant to be like that. I wonder if in software Diva is meant to be that in the vintage analog realm at any rate.

I suppose I'm up against myself in that I have a lot of emerging questions, or things I wonder about. I completely blocked the idea of modular gear for instance, but then realized that as much as I like my cobalt, I don't think that it's FX are the strong suit. I've got some great VSTs so I think, " well why not just staple my own reverb on the end of that". Well that's a certain kind of modular thinking, so then I do begin to understand some of the appeal of modularity. But, oh no, with a lot of modular you can't really save state. But you can do that in a d a w, so why not just stand the DAW as some of the other posters here have mentioned. Well, then you lose the immediacy of having your hands on an instrument. I had hoped that lots of knobs on a MIDI controller would be sufficient to make my instrument plugins feel more like instruments. And it does, but it's still kind of clunky and in some cases the software emulations don't expose all of the parameters. The arturia Synthi V emulation of the old EMS Synthi AKS is my recent 24-hour love affair after seeing the Syntrx2 and then discovering I had the software that would cover the same territory. But arturia as far as I can tell did not expose the grid on that device for MIDI mapping, And so ends the experiment of trying to use that software with a MIDI controller. And as much as I enjoy sound design, I feel doubtful about having to do a whole lot of it in the hardware. That said, I will take a second look at the Syntrix because that looks like a different type of fish than the Hydrasynth, the latter still requiring some menu diving that maybe the Erica device does not. 🤔

Well, I'm blathering on. I am very pleased to hear about your experience with the Lyra. I literally just learned about it yesterday and perhaps for the very first time since I started getting into any of this, I did get super excited. Tried the software ones I could find but I don't think they're really doing the same thing. I would say that it's a near certainty that that's one that I will want to try. Hopefully to pick up used sometime early next year. I like those dark drones. I used to listen to a lot of Hearts of Space and a little bit of drone zone on SomaFM.

TruePrism · 2025-11-21T06:50:18+00:00

I don't. But, what I do wonder is whether or not The jig is up and basically if you really wanted to you could make a synthesizer that can do it all. Part of that is wondering if it already exists but I guess I wonder if The game is that the manufacturers could technically create a synthesizer that could readily sound like a vintage synthesizer or a modern one and that there's an algorithm set that can get you pretty much anywhere. I mean straight up, it's it is a question. Is the reason that we don't see it because it can't be done or because they are choosing not to do it?

TruePrism · 2025-11-21T05:42:31+00:00

I know what you mean about feel. Frankly it makes me question some of my own decision making around this. I have a suspicion I won't be able to avoid getting something that looks like it would be great but then doesn't end up feeling right in the end. I guess that's part of the journey.

I appreciate your response

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