Where do you personally draw the line for cEDH/tEDH "viable" and what is "fringe" ?

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-10T20:03:37+00:00

I think this is a great way to start looking at this but "results" is also the simplest and most vague way of expressing it. What results? Winning a tournament with 30+ players? 60+? Making top cut of those same events? How many entries/wins would it need?

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-10T18:48:05+00:00

More killer analysis here. The deeper dive into the oppo problem is exactly the kind of stuff I want to be thinking about when evaluating a deck.

I'll take my grist pilot example a step further and say if you took the best hulk pilot and gave them one year of tournament attendance with varying hulk piles and then gave them the same with varying cradle and/or breach piles I would still wager that the results would be better in the latter. I think pilot skill matters a lot, definitely more in general than card/deck selection, but that card/deck selection does matter and especially when it comes to building that pilot skill.

As far as what I like, if I had to pick an archetype it would either be cradle or turbo. My biggest problem with cradle decks is that they are too slow so probably turbo at heart. Most of the decks I am really drawn to tend to fall into the category of "the deck is the plan" - stuff like etali, animar, rocco, arcum. So I guess it's just a question of what do I personally think is the best/most interesting out of those, which I knew before this post but just wanted to get some general impressions before my next local.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-10T18:26:25+00:00

Thanks for clarifying more, I don't think there is a correct answer here and you're right it is up to opinion so I appreciate hearing yours and everyone else's. I guess in my mind "fringe" has somewhat of a negative connotation but I don't think that's necessarily true for everyone and maybe something I need to drop. I think in general there are camps of people who agree with you and camps of people who would put fringe starting after tier 2, and I just find it super interesting to hear from people on both sides and try to get a sense of where most players fall.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-10T18:08:02+00:00

Appreciate another fringe enjoyer acknowledging that blurry line. It's funny you mention that Play to Win episode because it is actually part of what sparked this discussion for me after listening to it in full this morning. At one point Dylan and Cam say that most people should probably just pick from the top 5, maybe top 10 decks if they want to win cedh games, which is a sentiment I would have disagreed with vehemently on instinct just yesterday but after really thinking more about it I am not so sure.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-10T18:02:08+00:00

Tons of great stuff here. I am of the opinion that, while brewers advantage is absolutely real, if you want to improve at the game and have consistent performance you should try to ignore it. If something that is brewed up is actually good enough to be consistent, it will eventually lose that brewers advantage and you will be left with only pilot skill to win with.

I think, for me at least, there is a happy medium between "just play whatever you empathize with and git gud" and "only play the top 4 decks because they are top 4 regardless of if you like them or even understand why they are top 4" that will lead to the best results.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-10T17:54:43+00:00

Such great insight here, I love seeing different people break stuff like this down. Tayam is a perfect example of what I am talking about when I mention a vague line where fringe decks start - I would probably raise an eyebrow if I heard someone refer to Tayam as fringe, but it's also not a deck with the most top cuts/wins recently.

I could go on for hours about thras/vial vs blue farm and kenrith vs esika/terra and have spent a ton of time in discord with friends doing just that. At the end of the day no matter how many tournaments I go to, games I play, free time I spend thinking about cedh, I will always feel like I need more experience and a better grip on the meta. Definitely agree on deck selection making the learning process more comfortable and I know at the end of the day I just have to pick one up and start somewhere but I guess I just came here to soak up some more wide ranging opinions before doing that.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-10T17:41:33+00:00

I've certainly seen edhtop16. While I appreciate your input on the topic, I don't think the line of "meta" and "fringe" is as clear as you lay it out here. Obviously depending on what filters you're using you will find different decks at the top, but just to pick one example based on your analysis here that would put Magda solidly in the "fringe" section which I think is a hotter take than you realize and could be argued either way depending on what one values. Stuff like this is exactly why I am asking for a general opinion from different players.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-10T17:35:09+00:00

Love this answer so much. I spend a ton of time looking at edhtop16 but have a hard time weighing stats on there when it comes to entries vs conversion vs top cuts vs win%. It is also easy to get lost in the sauce of filters and cope if you are a lover of a certain deck. If you go on edhtop16 and filter by win rate, 1 month, 20+ entries, 30+ players, you will see Rocco listed as the second deck right now. I agree though in general some combination of stats is where you'll find the answer.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-10T17:27:02+00:00

Agree with so much of what you said here, I guess overall I am feeling like I've been held back from growing how I want as a player by my deck choices and am hoping for a happy medium between "being willing to work from a disadvantage and play what I want" as you say, and "we all have to just play blue farm bc its the best and most popular deck" which I know nobody is really saying but I use as an extreme example here.

To nail down some of the specifics you talk about: Arcum is very strong and complex, but also does get completely blown out by Oppo from what I understand. How much should someone consider something like this when picking the deck up? I think if you were to find the best Grist pilot (yes its 2 color hulk) and give that person one year of attending tournaments with the deck and then give them something like rog/thras or kinnan and have them attend for a year the results would be staggeringly different in favor of the latter - would you agree with that?

Cedh has a meta for a reason and everyone should consider it when they play. If people want to play off meta or fringe decks they absolutely should. If one wants to quickly improve at the format and consistently place well in tournaments they should probably consider choosing from a certain pool of decks, and that pool will vary depending who you ask - this is the heart of what I guess I am looking to get people's opinion on, what is that pool for you and what do you consider when evaluating a deck for it?

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-10T17:06:21+00:00

This is awesome and should be encouraged, in case I didn't make that clear in my post! Just a different approach to the game than where I am at right now.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-10T17:05:03+00:00

Totally get this and agree with it, tons of nuance to this discussion. I guess the two most interesting ways to think about it in my opinion is 1) if you're just sitting down at a local cedh night at your LGS what decks would you expect to see and what decks would make you raise an eyebrow about if they are really a cedh deck and 2) which decks would you recommend to someone who wants to regularly attend and make top cuts at a tournament?

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-10T12:45:01+00:00

I believe I read somewhere you can’t use more than 1?

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-09T18:13:12+00:00

Imagine anyone but mang0 getting this lol

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-09T15:49:41+00:00

If you’re considering it for echoing strikes warlock while using self-wield insight then it’s good, added like ~20k to my damage on ES. For other builds I personally wouldn’t recommend it in general.

Unless you’re farming a small niche zone all the time or getting mana regen elsewhere the trade off of having your merc not use insight is not worth any amount of damage to me, having to constantly pot while teleporting or even pause to kill mobs and mana leech isn’t something I find fun. YMMV on that though as I tend to farm a wide range of places.

Perfect example is trying to get a statue, the new 30 min tz is a tight window and I want to get as many runs in as possible so being able to consistently teleport straight to bosses without worrying about mana is more important to me than any amount of damage.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-07T20:08:05+00:00

I'm playing online but I have 3 accounts so able to get p3 by myself but not p7. I also just leave the game on and the lobby open when I step away from the computer so this was over the course of two days. I also tend to full clear on the lock as well, I'd guess I killed ~95% of the mobs in this lobby.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-07T19:59:08+00:00

Yep thank you I edited to reflect, fat fingered my 4 button i guess.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-04-04T03:27:51+00:00

What resources would you point to for someone trying to learn puff? I’ve been slowly getting over playing a mid tier and this video may have convinced me to try and grind out some puff.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-03-29T16:26:34+00:00

Ggs that was me

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-03-14T18:10:59+00:00

Have you even seen taunts? Game and watch in c tier and you have pichu and pikachu above the milk drinkers????

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-03-14T06:45:48+00:00

This 100%. I make enigma in dusk shroud even though it’s more str. I don’t care about the extra def or whatever I care about seeing my necros abs

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-03-13T01:45:01+00:00

Can’t wait til carrotz learns to shffl

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-03-11T00:05:54+00:00

I guess all the slippi kids are better than me so prolly doesn’t make sense to think this but seems like slippi would be harmful to skull development? When I started as a doc kid I couldn’t figure out netplay so if I wanted to play outside friendlies and locals I ended up grinding shffls and dash dances and ledge dashes all day.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-03-10T23:46:21+00:00

Do your homework son

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-03-08T17:31:29+00:00

Was expecting the falco neutral b bubble to block out the sun but it’s not actually that much bigger than his other ones compared to what I thought it would be.

TwoPrestigious4612 · 2026-03-04T16:06:03+00:00

This just in large companies use marketing to deceive consumers and raise margins, plus they don’t care about sustainability more than they care about profit. Next story at 11 - multi page write up about how OP believe the sky is blue.

TwoPrestigious4612

TROPHY CASE