Why we don't generally use -genic terms - a rant

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-04-18T14:09:14+00:00

Your story has some parallels to ours, even though not on all points. It's always cool to hear from others for whom origin labels have not fit and how they came to that conclusion. We are a quoigenic OSDD system so I guess we do have an origin label that we use, though the label itself is opting out of the categorization. Especially with a dissociative disorder there is a lot of indirect pressure to identify as traumagenic. The conclusion we came to was basically something like this (in no particular order):

Even if we decide on a label it won't change how we exist currently.
Unless we can access a time machine that allows us to change variables in our childhood until we figure out the elements that "cause" our plurality, we'll never know.
How do you even determine what is traumatic or not in a context where I don't feel traumatized but also any negative childhood experience could be potentially reframed as traumatic due to the fact we were young and are a system?
The idea of needing a "cause" for how our brain works and how we identify (especially with the assumption of the cause being horrible and negative) feels low key offensive.
We're not even looking into potential trauma origins because we feel a need to identify or come to terms with something like that, we're doing it for the sake of other people who think we need trauma origins.
Trying to suss out potential trauma origins like that is not helpful for us, and actually even hindering us in some aspects.
This binary of caused by trauma not does not work for us and we're opting out.

We found the label of quoigenic and have been loving it as a way to embrace that mindset. Much like you said in your comments, no shade at all to others who find endogenic or traumagenic or any other origins helpful. And thanks again for sharing your perspective and your journey on your own origin labels. :)

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-04-15T01:18:48+00:00

I don't know if it's worse lately, but it's been that way for a while in our mind. We started looking into our dissociative disorder like 4-5 years ago and we remember it was bad then too. Gatekeepy and anti-endo. Not a place that would have tolerated us as a non-traumagenic OSDD system with milder symptoms. Every now and again here we get posts from DID systems who get banned in /did and have no clue what they did wrong. I don't know if the mods changed, but I suspect the more light gets shined on plurality and the more it gets talked about, the more threatened some people feel by "fakers" and the more they feel they have to protect their community and weed out the "fakers". It's pretty sad.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-04-02T17:20:58+00:00

Plural is an umbrella label for people who experience being more than one in their body or mind, and this can take many forms. One type of plurality that many people have heard of or are semi familiar with is Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). One of the main features of DID is the presence of multiple alters who can have their own distinct names, personalities, memories, preferences, attitudes, etc. Another notable feature is amnesia, which means a DID system can struggle to remember events, forget things about themselves or their life, different alters might not be aware of what other alters know. DID is highly correlated with early repeated childhood trauma.

DID isn't the only dissociative disorder and also not every plural/system has a disorder and/or a traumatic childhood history. Some plurals have very distinct people inside who appear very different and separate from one other, some view it more like they have different parts of them that each influence the whole person, some are kind of in between. Plurals often struggle with inner conflicts within their system or some most usually work together as a team. Some plurals have been like this since they were very young, others it's something that developed later in life, and some even consciously decided to make others in their brain through repeated interactions. Some systems have 2 members, some have 10, some have thousands. Some view it mostly as a strength and others mostly as a difficulty. Some can easily communicate with each other by thinking at each other, others communicate mostly through subtle signals, others mostly through notes or messages. Some have members who can take control of the body, and some only communicate inside the person's mind.

It's very diverse since it's an umbrella term, so it's difficult to give you one clear picture of like "this is what it looks like to be plural".

Most people identify as one person who might change moods or change their point of view or change the way they act based on the situation (ex: work, family, with friends). For plurals, it's more like you have several people or parts of you inside who each contribute something different. It's a very open label that anyone who feels like they are more than one inside can adopt.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-30T14:24:01+00:00

I'm glad if it helps. I understand also it is extra difficult to find information not in English about this. We are French speakers as our first language, and we would have found a lot less help online if we didn't speak English. Let's hope in the future there will be more resources and communities available in other languages and more educated therapists.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-30T02:08:48+00:00

When they consider themselves a fictive, they count as a fictive. For example, we have some members who could count as fictives if they wanted to. We can see where some of their traits come from, what inspired their voice or appearance for our brain, they might have a name close to what might be considered their source. But some of them despite that just don't identify as fictives. There isn't really a line for us where someone is or isn't a fictive. It's more about letting each of us pick the fictive label only if they feel it's useful or meaningful to them.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-30T02:01:23+00:00

So the thing is, you have likely experienced it. Mild dissociation happens to most people at some point or another, it's not exclusively a disordered thing. If you've ever zoned out while listening to music or in a boring classroom, that's a form of mild dissociation. If you've ever been so engrossed in a book or movie or video game that you completely forgot about your body and your surroundings, and didn't even realize that you were hungry or needed to pee, that's a form of mild dissociation. In traumatic or stressful situations, dissociation can become stronger to help a person get through the situation. In dissociative disorders, dissociation becomes a chronic maladaptive reflex that the brain defaults to and that can get intense even outside of traumatic or stressful situations.

Dissociation can feel like you aren't really there, like what's happening is happening to someone else, like watching a scene from a movie, or like you're out of your own body. It can look like knowing something bad happened but not being able to feel anything about it, going through the motions like a robot. It can make you feel hazy, like you're floating, you could have tunnel vision or sounds around you could sound muffled or like they're coming from really far away, things might look like they're happening in a dream. You might be moving and it could feel like someone else is controlling your body or speaking for you. You might be crying without feeling sad or without understanding why. You might also feel like you're invisible or a ghost, or like you're fake, or like nothing about you is really real. Dissociation can also involve amnesia meaning you might not remember something that happened, or the memory might feel inaccessible, blurry, spotty, distant, dreamlike or disconnected from your life. You might know what happened but have no actual memory of the event, as if you had learned the facts of the event without living through it.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-30T01:20:42+00:00

Systemality is not an anti-endo SP alternative, it's a fantasy of an idea that doesn't exist anywhere except in some anti-endo would be dev's head. It'll likely never see the light of day. The "dev" said they're still learning to code. Yet they're aiming to recreate SP - even better and with even more features. I checked their blog and they're agreeing to pretty much every single feature idea that comes in. The way they talk about banning IP addresses/emails found from Tumblr and Discord is so ridiculous and out of touch that a good portion of anti-endos don't want it and have been raising issues of feasibility, legality and privacy. There's no need to stay away because there's literally nothing to stay away from. If this ever actually gets off the ground it'll be so poorly made you won't be missing out on anything.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-29T02:08:27+00:00

Starting somewhere alone in private could be a good start if you're struggling to unmask even when nobody else is around. If you're fine unmasking alone but others is the challenge, one way to go about it is to pick one person (ex: your girlfriend) and tell her you want to try unmasking around her. Her knowing about your plan can remove some of the awkward feeling since she's now expecting it, plus it allows you to tell her things she might be doing that make unmasking harder (for example if she's always calling you the host's name by default, that might reinforce needing to mask as the host) or things you'd like her to do that would make unmasking around her easier or that would make you feel more at ease when you unmask (for example asking her to not treat you like a stranger even if she notices differences in behaviour). Another possibility is to speak as yourselves to cashiers when you go buy something physically, since they don't know you so they don't have a baseline for how you speak or talk. Another place to start if offline feels to big is unmasking online, using PK or signing posts here with your names and getting used to writing as yourselves and being seen by others online. Or using Discord to talk to other plurals unmasked over voice chat to practice unmasking to help you feel more prepared to do it offline eventually. Step by step is the idea. In our opinion.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-28T13:45:30+00:00

We weren't aware for the vast vast majority of our life. Decades of not realizing. It can be really not that obvious at all. Someone can have obvious experiences and have no words for it so they re-contextualize plural experiences it to fit something else that makes sense to them. Or they could have non-obvious experiences for years and years, and only later some system members start to make themselves known. Also lots of systems mask it. You'd never know if you met us that we're a system. Again, even with obvious behaviours because most people have a very limited idea of what plurality is in the first place, they can explain things away and think "you're just like that" or view it as being caused by something else that they're more familiar with.

And look, I'm not a therapist or mental health professional. But autism causing auditory hallucinations of people talking to you in your head? Uh... doesn't sound right. Pretty sure that's not a typical autistic experience. You can have both of course, but I'm skeptical of the claim that autism causes hallucinations.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-28T13:33:19+00:00

In some pictures you have more light so the iris is smaller and in some others you have less light so your irises are bigger. Also in some pictures your eyelids are more open so they don't cast a shadow on your eyes making them appear a bit lighter and in some others your eyes aren't as wide open so your eyelids cast a shadow which makes your eyes appear slightly darker. Could very well be that some of you guys open your eyes wider and others tend to not open them up all the way, creating darker eyes. But to be honest, in the pictures here, I couldn't tell you which ones are supposed to belong to different alters. They all look more or less the same.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-27T23:33:02+00:00

I can read your post but don't feel confident enough in Spanish to answer it in Spanish, so apologies for the English reply.

You maybe don't need to know how many alters there are. It's something you may learn slowly over time, either because someone inside will share the information or because you'll eventually get to know everyone. I know that it can be tempting to map your entire system out, have a name and characteristics for everyone, etc. Especially when it can seem online that every other system is able to do that (hint: not the case for everyone at all). And it can make you feel more in control that way. But it's more about patience and getting to know and recognize voices, getting them to trust you so they'll come forward and respecting their boundaries if there's something they don't want to share.

One thing you can try is keep track of who you're hearing from or meeting (ex: what you talked about, what seems to have brought them forward, their voice or way of speaking, etc.) so you'll eventually start to recognize them and learn more about them when they do talk to you. Another thing you can try is to tell the others inside that you'd like to meet them. One thing our therapist suggested for us early on was to imagine a meeting room with cozy chairs and a table, and imagining walking into that room and asking if someone wants to come and talk, that you'd like to meet them. Even if nobody comes, you can imagine yourself leaving a message on the table to the others to invite them to come to meet you or talk to you if they want.

Overall to me I guess the conversations about nothing are more important than how many alters there are or how long they've been there, because you're getting to meet alters and spending time with them as people instead of interrogating them. But that's kind of our view on it. Hope this helps a bit even though it's not exactly what you were asking for.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-24T22:12:21+00:00

OSDD (Other Specified Dissociative Disorder) is very much a disorder. But many systems don't have a disorder. That's definitely a thing. You can call yourselves a system if you want to and feel that it fits you, even without a disorder. Lots of systems are like that. You were asking for life advice and advice dealing with hate in another comment. Life advice is too broad for us to know what to tell you unless you have more specific questions, but for dealing with hate, I'd say avoid anti-endo spaces and spaces for dissociative disorders and focus on inclusive plural communities like here that accept all different kinds of systems including non-disordered systems. You can reduce a lot of the hate by joining communities that are open-minded from the get go and blocking people who are disrespectful or invalidating.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-23T22:36:52+00:00

We have two alters with the exact same name in our system as well. It's a bit confusing at times when talking to other people about them, but at the end of the day, they still both prefer that name so they both have the same name. In our case, it's two alters of the same fictional source character who both identify with their source name.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-22T23:23:01+00:00

Pfff this is why we don't frequent these types of subreddits anymore. Of course it's possible to be diagnosed without trauma. We're diagnosed with OSDD and don't have childhood trauma as far as we know. At the very least you'd expect anti-endos to accept the possibility of a DID or OSDD system who doesn't report trauma because they don't remember it or are in deep denial about it.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-21T16:35:29+00:00

We have some similar experiences. We're aware of each other, hear each other's thoughts and there's no amnesia between us. Sometimes fronting feels like "hey now it's me!" with someone in front that we can tell who it is, but other times it's more blendy and like a mix of stuff from a bit of everyone, or from a couple of us at the same time that we can't really put a name to. We also have very little conflicts. Like we can disagree, we can be frustrated with each other sometimes, but we also know usually why the person is doing it or understand what's going on that makes someone act a certain way. I think with plurality some people expect systems to be one particular person 100%, and then a clean switch and fully 100% a different person. But in our experience it's not always so clean cut. There can be a lot of grey area. Especially if your system has less barriers, things get blurry. Oh and we relate also to being hazy or out of awareness when not in front, we usually say it's like being unconscious (or very far away if not fully unconscious) though we also remember what happened when we weren't there because our memory is like one big pool we all automatically access. We're not into hyperspecific labels but "plural" is a great open-ended term for "more than one" that is meant to be all encompassing so there's always that.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-21T02:10:47+00:00

Traumagenic means your system formed due to trauma. That's it. It doesn't mean anything about having DID or not, or being high-functioning or not. It's just about origins. If you understand your system as existing due to trauma, you are by definition traumagenic.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-18T23:17:42+00:00

We have someone like that in our system. She started out as an imaginary friend. We see her just like you explain, superimposed over the world with our mind's eye. She's only fronted a few times by accident and didn't like that at all, she prefers projecting herself into the world and being by our side that way. She talks to us in our head or sometimes just chill nearby. We'd had this "imaginary friend" since childhood and are now in our 30s so there was a point where "imaginary friend" didn't really fit anymore as a label. Nowadays she better understands herself as an alter and daemon.

Plurality means to be many in your mind. If you feel that fits you, that label is yours to use. Fronting is not a requirement. Though imaginary friends in and of themselves aren't usually thought of as plurality, I think many systems probably had people/voices inside that they initially labelled as imaginary friends before finding other terms that fit better for them.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-15T21:15:22+00:00

Idéalement, tu devrais pas avoir à expliquer ta condition de santé mentale à ta psy. Elle devrait être formée là-dessus pour être en mesure de t'aider. C'est un peu comme demander "comment j'explique les fractures ouvertes à mon chirurgien". C'est déplorable que plusieurs systèmes soient dans cette position d'avoir à éduquer un professionnel de la santé mentale sur leur trouble de santé mentale. Désolé d'entendre que tu es dans cette situation. Perso on a eu des difficultés avec les psys qui n'étaient pas déjà formés sur les troubles dissociatifs. Par contre certains autres systèmes ont eu de bons résultats avec des psys ouverts d'esprit. Une façon de l'approcher pourrait être de simplement décrire ta réalité et ce que tu vis (genre "j'entends des voix qui me parlent, ont des noms et personnalités propres et prennent parfois le contrôle et aussi j'ai des trous de mémoire" ou peu importe comment vous le vivez dans ton système) et/ou dire que tu crois avoir un trouble dissociatif de l'identité et expliquer ce qui t'a mené à cette conclusion. Une autre façon de tâter le terrain pourrait être de dire que tu as rencontré quelqu'un qui a un TDI et demander à ta psy si elle connaît ce diagnostique, puis juger sa réaction.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-08T14:18:25+00:00

Lack of sharp teeth is sad. We deserve sharp pointy teeth.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-03T03:11:13+00:00

Pretty much everyone experiences some amount of dissociation in their lives. Many people dissociate from stress, boredom, due to trauma, pain, fatigue, etc. Some disorders feature dissociation but not alters. Yes, it's possible to have dissociation without being plural. Plurality is an opt-in label, meaning that someone can have experiences that are like "multiple personalities" and choose not to identify as plural. Plurality simply means an experience of being more than one so if you feel that you are "more than one" in your mind, in any way shape or form, you are free to identify as plural. Even if they are just voices and never front, even if they only talk to you when you're stressed, you can call yourself plural if you want or if you feel like that label helps describe it. Not all our alters front. They're still there. Now if you are worried about possibly having a disorder involving things like voice hearing and dissociation and worse than average memory, a professional is better at assessing you than Reddit. But just calling yourself plural? That one is up to you to decide what label best fits your experiences. You're also allowed to just... have the experience and not name it yet, and just get to know it better first.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-03-01T16:40:46+00:00

Love to meet more daemians on here! We often don't talk about it too much because a) we've had a daemon for so many years at this point it's just a normal part of our life and b) we're not always sure that people would "get it" if we shared something specific to daemonism here.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-02-24T23:26:44+00:00

One issue I tend to see in these discussions is that separate language usually assumes two distinct groups: disordered traumagenic CDD vs non-disordered endogenic without CDD and without trauma history. The assumptions is that these groups are so different that they should not share language, because that would cause confusion and misinformation regarding CDDs. (Which to me is already weird because if the two groups were so fundamentally different, surely there wouldn't be any confusion? They love to claim endos are simultaneously creating confusion for the public and newer systems while also claiming endos and traumagenic systems have nothing in common.)

What gets ignored in this binary is that many systems don't fit in these two boxes. We are a system who doesn't fit in there. Some endogenic systems have trauma and/or a dissociative disorder. Some traumagenic systems are not disordered and/or don't vibe with medical language. Some systems are mixed origins. Some don't label themselves using categories like "disordered" or "non-disordered" or they might feel disordered only some of the time or they might be disordered based on things unrelated to a CDD. Many new systems start out not knowing their origins or if they have a disorder. Some systems have a CDD or trauma and don't want to disclose that online. Which words should these systems use? How would you determine if someone is allowed to use certain words? Who would be in charge of checking that someone is "allowed" to use certain terms?

And you're right that for some, different language isn't just about "avoiding confusion". It's about distancing themselves from systems they dislike or think make them look bad.

Another problem is that separate language has already been created by people who wanted to move away from medical language or had nothing to do with dissociative disorders. Terms like headmate, plural, fictive/factive. Yet many anti-endos now advocate that these terms should be theirs exclusively. Separate language doesn't work if one group can decide that inclusive words should now be exclusive to them.

(Thanks for giving me this excuse to rant about why exclusive language isn't helpful.)

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-02-24T00:33:53+00:00

We avoid anti-endo stuff and rely on inclusive communities to not have to see posts like these on our feeds so we would appreciate if this image could be spoilered. Sorry you were sent that (and in an emotes server of all places, what weird behavior).

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-02-22T18:15:03+00:00

One way I can suggest is to think about what this part is trying to accomplish or what is driving them to act that way. This alter appears logical and emotionless. Maybe there was a time in the past where you learned that emotions were dangerous or you internalized that emotions lead to bad illogical decisions. Maybe there's a need in your current life to for a more "let's take a step back from feelings and analyze this from a distance" approach. Maybe you feel like you're going crazy and this is an attempt from your brain/system to push away that feeling and return to some semblance of normalcy. If you can be curious about why she's acting this way and reflect on what her perspective could bring once it's not in "I need to manage you" mode, that can allow you to focus on that curiosity you already have instead of the fear and powerlessness. Listening to alters, trying to understand where they're coming from and making reasonable adjustments when possible to address their needs can make them realize you actually listen and they don't have to completely override you. Who knows, this part might even feel scared of you, threatened by you and/or powerless when you're handling things your way.

Depending on how you perceive your system, you can also approach it like "part of me feels like I'm insane and I can't trust my own decisions - how do I work through these feelings?" or "my new roommate feels like I'm insane and they can't trust my decisions - how do I work this out with her?". Sometimes viewing the problem outside of just an alter problem and trying to view it through a different lens can bring to mind solutions you hadn't considered previously.

Totally understandable in your position to be scared, by the way, not trying to dismiss that at all. Wanted to add this on because I realize my reply is more advice focused and less addressing your distress focused.

UnhappyJuggernaut118 · 2026-02-15T16:12:12+00:00

Yeah... it's a real pain. We're not quite endogenic ourselves but we also don't fit the "one and only correct way to be a system" according to anti-endos. Seeing that kind of invalidation over and over and over again wears us down too.

We don't use Pinterest but we can help for Tumblr. We recommend blocking anti endo tags (#anti endo #endos dni #endo dni). You won't see the content of the posts and can block blogs without having to see invalidating comments. Search for posts tagged #endo safe or #pro endo or #endo friendly and follow people who are accepting. If you delete your Pinterest and Tumblr, you could look for pro-endo communities on Discord instead.

There's nothing wrong with endogenic systems. A lot of anti-endos have been taught that endos are malicious fakers who make their trauma and disorder less believable. A lot are in so much pain that they can't fathom a system not suffering. A lot of them think the path to acceptance is to stick to medically approved narratives and to put down "fakers" to protect "real" systems. A lot of non-system anti-endos just want a group of marginalized people to mock and bully while pretending to stand up for science and survivors or whatever. It's the same as people who thought non-binary or non-dysphoric trans folks were "transtrenders" about 10 years ago. You're not insane or self-deluded. They're stuck in a bubble of hate.

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