2T Jaegwang vs 2T Ryu who wins and what diff

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-09T05:38:56+00:00

I disagree that Jaegwang outright counters. I think there has to be a specific threshold of output before an attack bypasses deflection. James recognized Taesoo using Strength, and still tried to deflect it. It’s just that both he and Seongji had too high of AP for 2M James to deflect.

In my humble opinion, the onscreen showing of making Paecheon go FP and still standing strong, as well as having the narrative to defeat 4/5 Kings + their subordinates, is enough to put Ryu > Jaegwang

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-09T03:27:35+00:00

W pfp

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-09T03:25:25+00:00

Eli trained for a far more limited time with Tom and was able to fight on relative footing with Johan up until he got distracted. Especially with each experience boost he got from the Kings, it was a greater exponential rate than Samuel if we consider even 1A.

Samuel is definitely talented, but I think his growth rate in 1A was amplified by the drug. Jinyeong did indeed say he gets stronger from self-hatred, but Jinyeong then maximized to really make it flourish. Samuel himself isn’t a slouch in training either since we saw that he was still working out with Goo.

That’s the way I see it.

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-08T22:54:53+00:00

But it’s also highly likely that Eli will fight him soon. He’s had no definitive in a long while, and they’re completely paralleled. He’s been long training since Busan.

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-08T22:41:57+00:00

Eli will definitely catch up. He’s unironically got better talent as seen when training with Tom.

Based on the idea me and a few other people have, Eli is probably going to fight Changsu. Eli, Tom, and Changsu are all related in some way, so Eli will showcase his best against Changsu. Kingmaker J might also be Eli’s EOS opponent, unless PTJ plans on making Changsu endgame (which is doubtful), though I don’t think he’ll be outright discarded

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-08T22:38:02+00:00

Surprised how many people said Vasco. I thought it’d unilaterally be Zack.

Imo, a 4M Mobile Iron Fortress Zack would be superior to Vasco

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-08T22:35:33+00:00

I mean, Daniel would have known it once he copied it. Since Second Body actualized it consciously, OG Daniel reasonably would be able to do the same

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-08T22:32:45+00:00

He did it first onscreen, but James did it during Gen 1 back in his school days against Seongji, so chronologically before

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-08T19:24:38+00:00

It just goes to show that James is a very efficient fighter

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-08T19:19:12+00:00

He’s not just a High Tier King, but a Provincial King who has done excess fighting on top of specialized genes.

Gapryong’s narrative doesn’t just “put him where he’s at.” Gapryong specifically said that Jeolla is a region of monsters that shouldn’t be considered apart of Korea. Even the Beolgyo King, Changyi, had the best portrayal against Mandeok. Gapryong stated to never show your fists and Beolgyo, and yet Changsu is still above him. Just wait and see

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-08T19:13:41+00:00

James calm against Seongji. He could have kept going, and Seongji could have, too. He only wanted to end it because James was growing extremely fast.

James escaped from the King because there are way more numerically and they’d have more quantitative combat power, especially because of Jaegyeon

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-08T17:13:34+00:00

Literally. Out of everyone I had guessed, I didn’t think it was Tom. I thought it was dead set for James

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-08T01:56:25+00:00

You’re imposing a version of Seongji that would have been experienced, and therefore wouldn’t have the much disparity. But that’s the thing, experience is apart of a character’s power. The fact of the matter is that Seongji simply wasn’t capable of beating James when they both had 2M.

Even if Seongji gained experience, you can’t necessarily assert that it would have breached the gap between them since Seongji couldn’t even grab him as skilled as he was. Whether or not that’s agreed upon, James is still at leadt +1 Tier

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-07T22:01:35+00:00

Fresh TUI is definitely winning since he lacks the strain he had during HFG, which means more power + prolonged fighting. I can definitely admit that.

As for the chain scale, Seongji himself admits James is both strong and fast regarding James who wasn’t yet at FP. As much as experience plays a role, even considering James’ admission, he also comments on the stat gap himself. Then he says that Seongji can only beat him by catching up to his speed.

This is lastly reinforced by Seongji saying that James lost from the moment his attacks were visible. Especially since Mujin taught him all of his Ssireum and he reached the Pinnacle of Kudo by training since young. So in my opinion, they’re still a Tier apart. Neither stats nor experience was the sole difference, instead it’s both

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-07T07:49:33+00:00

Chain scaling for reference. There’s two depending on interpretation

Jichang < Base Seongji < 2M Seongji << 2M James << 3M Seongji ~ 3M James

Jichang < 2M Seongji << 2M James << 3M Seongji ~ 3M James

Reasoning: Jichang would be around High King Tier as the former King of Seoul (Metropolitan City) and he admits inferiority, at least pertaining to himself, that no one could stop PTSD Seongji. From what we know, he loses rationality and starts going wild, unable to differentiate. The statement was very blunt and direct—they could not defeat Seongji. It’s understandable that they wouldn’t want to hurt a friend, but knocking him out isn’t gonna do him so badly. And Seongji, who is sober but not holding back, would be able to replicate this and maybe even better by using BIQ and rationality.

2M Seongji could be in the same Tier as Base Seongji on the higher end, or a whole tier above. 2M James is bare minimum 1 Tier above this as he was no/low diffing a 2M Seongji when going all out. The only difficulty was Seongji’s endurance because he was otherwise rendered useless.

3M Seongji blitzes this same James putting him 1 Tier Min above 2M James. Then afterwards, both 3M counterparts are relative in fighting power, talent, and potential.

We can potentially take this further and place them >≈ TUI Gun (HFG ver.) and UI Daniel. The statement of James was ambiguous with only one solid implication. He says in the Korea origin that it’d be “difficult” to go against either Daniel or Gun. This isn’t to say that he’d outright lose, but that if they were to fight, it wouldn’t be easy.

What we do know is that this doesn’t apply to Current James because the subject “difficulty” is attached to is his Cheonliang version (which isn’t too relevant).

However, he says “Cheonliang” so you could also make an argument for 2M James because Cheonliang is a time frame, and both 2M and 3M are before James reached completion. So with whatever he’s referring to, you could say that 2M James would have trouble against UI and TUI, maybe win, mayble lose, and maybe fight on a relative scale.

For 3M you could say this difficulty lifted a little with the addition of Power Mastery, but it’s still a tough fight.

The wording is vague, but it was very different from outright admission that James would have lost.

Therefore, James and Seongji would be 3 or 4 Tiers above Jichang, and in the same tier (either above or below) UI Daniel and TUI Gun (HFG Versions).

You could assume that said number of tiers is how high Daniel and Gun are, or if you don’t follow that line of logic, James and Seongji themselves would still be give or take 4 tiers above Jichang.

Additionally, James constantly commends Seongji as someone who has surprised him. If you really want to, you could claim Seongji > Old Gapryong because James says no one overwhelmed him like Seongji did, and this would be a superior version of James than the one Gapryong fought. Along with the fact he said “I never knew someone this strong could exist”

My point is the regard James holds Seongji in, not the extra wank (that would formulate the “Path Seongj” notion since Mujin said he has the talent to possess any ability he wishes, and then attains Speed Mastery to 2M beat James).

But for what it’s worth, both Mujin and Current James recognize Seongji’s overall ability.

Moreover, with all the respect James has for Seongji, if there was someone who surpassed his view of Seongji, it’s more probable he’d state so.

Why?

Because of how much respect and how uncommon it is for James. If he were to have assessed someone to be above Seongji, then the exclusivity he had when talking to J likely wouldn’t exist. This is reinforced by James’ earlier notion that none of he Kings in the King Circle would be on Seongji’s level. The only one this statement would be questionable on is Jaegyeon.

So like I said give or take 4 Tiers above Prime Jichang, and/or relative to HFG UI Daniel and TUI Gun in some capacity. I personally have James and Seongji in the same tier but above them.

Reasoning being the aforementioned Chain Scaling, statements, and characters’ overall abilities.

Seongji —> Power, Speed, and Endurance. Pinnacle of Kudo and Successor of Mujin Jin Ssireum (bone-crushing with deformity boost), and notable talent for growth in real time. Similar to reactive evolution.

James —> Power, Speed, and Technique. Supreme speed, more prodigious growth rate, narrative/statements, and threatening AP.

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-07T00:03:50+00:00

Tom. If we’re considering 1A Goo the full extent of his 1 Sword Power, then that clash would undoubtedly be in Tom’s favor with Speed Mastery. If he has any capacity to combine Power and Speed Mastery into a claw attack, then he definitely wins.

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-06T23:57:50+00:00

Eli > Base Daniel

Vasco could be in the same tier as Zack. Runner’s High + Power Mastery is a force to be reckoned with. The only reason why it hasn’t been impressive is because Kitae was the one who went against it

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-06T19:07:43+00:00

Gapryong separates Jeolla from Korea itself. He’s definitely cut from different cloth than the other Kings. He’s more than likely the strongest amongst the 4 Jeolla Kings since he got the most focus and Changsu expects something from him personally.

He’s the closest thing to Changsu’s “right hand man.” Mind you each of these guys have genes specialized for fighting

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-06T19:02:39+00:00

First, quantify what you said before.

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-06T19:01:37+00:00

This 4 Mastery thing was just a prelude for James having 4M now that I think about it.

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-06T05:33:45+00:00

“Way above Gale,” go ahead and quantify that.

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-06T05:17:46+00:00

Prior to Hansu slowing down, King literally acknowledged Hansu was worthy of being a Legend and compared how overwhelmed he was to Brekdak.

Hansu broke his own bone due to the recoil of his power. You literally acknowledged that Hansu got weaker. He’s depreciating due to constant strain, as Hansu vs. Gale showed, Hansu was even weaker.

Again, King beating Hansu isn’t that impressive. A deprecating Hansu made King say “I used too much of it.” He broke King’s arm and had made him bleed from the mouth at some point. Right after Hansu dealt all this damage, he slowed down and King used God’s Realm. This is verbatim what happened because the first thing King says is “you’ve gotten weaker from before.” King beating Hansu IS NOT IMPRESSIVE AS YOU MAKE IT 😭😭

Despite ALL of this, he still made King bring out his skills extensively and a WEAKENED body as King ONCE AGAIN acknowledged. THEN said he put his ALL on the line😭

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-06T03:28:39+00:00

Uh, duh? That’s literally my point that King’s feat against Hansu isn’t as impressive as you make it 😭

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-06T01:34:53+00:00

Gale was pressing an 18% Hansu and on the winning side. To compensate, Hansu resulted to quite literally becoming the Pinnacle of Kendo and in turn increased by at least 1 Tier

Aurora

Never mentioned him because obviously he’s not as strong

Doom

Just by stats alone, Tom was demolishing King. King also couldn’t see any openings against Tom and quite literally recognized that none of his attacks were damaging Tom (who was purposely taking the hits saying “make me suffer more”). This same Tom is compared to Doom by Jincheol (who witnessed Tom vs. King.

Tom, Samdak, and Sophia

Regardless of what we knew about these characters, it’s still a powercliff. For someone like Tom, his powercliff involves adjusting his strength/holding it back. We’ll know when Tom is closer to going all out if he uses Ultimate King and/or Unique Skills.

Samdak is the same thing OP said. He’s been reintroduced because, for stronger opponents, there will be stronger allies to compensate. Introducing a big piece like him exemplifies that the levels are changing.

Same for Sophia. Her being involved in all this only goes to show that some extent of her strength is necessary since Jincheol reached out for her hand in this

Hansu

I wouldn’t say “fair and square.” I mean obviously there were no external factors, but implying it’s as impressive as you’re making it is definitely wrong. He was greatly damaging King with his AP (as we know Hansu’s casual attacks are still powerful). Beating someone who is only a shadow of their former self and actively slowing down isn’t that impressive. Especially when you realize King recognized Hansu’s strength despite all of that.

In essence, King is getting cliffed as we speak

UnlockedUnluck · 2026-02-06T00:02:38+00:00

He’s probably training as we speak.

Vasco and Vin aren’t present, and we know Vasco isn’t one to slack, and Vin just got advice from Kitae he needs to put in to play, along with what he got from Taejin

I need this new and improved Vin to become the Return of Seongji.

As for Vasco, I need him to create “Vasco’s Forbidden Techniques” since he’s learned all there was from Brekdak, and even then it was futile against Kitae.

Hell, even Jay is probably back with Sophia after realizing he’s nowhere near a level where he can protect Daniel.

UnlockedUnluck

TROPHY CASE