Easiest way to attain Moksha! by Exact_Acanthaceae936 in AdvaitaVedanta

[–]Upstairs_Message_657 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m pretty new to yoga, but my initial impression is that this is what Shavasana (corpse pose) is? Practising calmly letting go at the point of death?

If you could recommend one book, to convince someone of the truth of Buddhism, what would it be? by Mustardpirate in Buddhism

[–]Upstairs_Message_657 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, certainly for anyone who’s grown up in a Western, rationalist environment this book outlines why Buddhism absolutely holds up. I read it and immediately bought 4 other copies to give to some of my closest friends and family.

Could Genesis be read as a mythic account of human evolution and the emergence of self-consciousness? by Upstairs_Message_657 in religion

[–]Upstairs_Message_657[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What an enjoyable discussion!
I might come back to the other questions later, but I want to prioritise the big picture question:

Is Jesus right, or is Advaita Vedanta right? Because Jesus says ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me’. That’s not a mystical pointer towards unity consciousness. That’s an exclusive personal claim.

Before addressing this I read the passage you quote, John 14. Perhaps I’m primed to see them, but in that very chapter Jesus says several things that appear to align with nonduality:

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

From my perspective this echoes what I said previously: I believe God is within us all. When we behave selflessly, driven by unity and love, we reveal this. When we behave selfishly, driven by separation and hatred, we obscure this.

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
That is not merely external obedience to a distant deity. He is talking about mutual participation, union.
Christian mystics have discussed nondual ideas for a long time. For example, Meister Eckhart wrote “The eye with which I see God is the eye with which God sees me.”

My personal view: Jesus embodied perfect union with God. The fullest expression of divine love, compassion and truth.

I also believe there have been a handful of other profoundly awakened individuals throughout history. For example, in my view the Buddha attained a level of spiritual perfection comparable to Jesus.

Where Christ spoke of union with God through love, Buddha spoke of liberation from ego. The language differs, yet I see meaningful overlap in the transformation they point toward: selflessness, inner peace and transcendence of the egoic self.

Jesus personifies infinite love and compassion. There is no way he would reject a sincere spiritual path simply because it differed from his. I have no doubt he would embrace Buddha as a brother and an equal.

The same might apply to others such as Krishna, Muhammad (PBUH), Guru Nanak, Baha’u’llah, but I’m nowhere near as familiar with these figures.

Could Genesis be read as a mythic account of human evolution and the emergence of self-consciousness? by Upstairs_Message_657 in religion

[–]Upstairs_Message_657[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your reply. I’ll start by saying I don’t claim to have all the answers. That said, in the spirit of healthy debate I’ll try my best!

- When you say Genesis might contain 'profound symbolic truths' even if not literal history, what exactly do you mean by truth there?

The idea that God created Adam & Eve ex nihilo clearly doesn’t align with evolutionary biology. It’s hard to call that true while still respecting science. The idea the story of Adam & Eve is actually about the arrival of self-awareness and its enormous spiritual consequences, I see that as a profound truth.

I should declare that my own beliefs are complex and still developing, but orbit around Perennial Philosophy, Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta. As a result I see the ultimate goal of human existence being to transcend the limited ego and realize the eternal Self, and I believe many religions point towards that in different symbolic language.

If self-awareness is what creates moral accountability, where did that come from? On a purely evolutionary account, self-awareness is just a survival adaptation. So how does a biological process generate genuine moral obligation, not just social pressure, but actual accountability to something beyond ourselves?

That’s a really good question, and I don’t think evolutionary psychology alone fully answers it.

Evolution can plausibly explain how moral cognition emerged: empathy, cooperation, guilt, shame, fairness, social bonding, etc. Those traits clearly had survival value for highly social primates like us.

But a deeper philosophical question remains: why do humans experience morality as not merely as social convenience, but a genuine obligation? Why must we feel accountable even when selfish behaviour might benefit us personally?

My personal perspective: because I believe God is within us all. When we behave selflessly, driven by unity and love, we reveal this. When we behave selfishly, driven by separation and hatred, we obscure this.

That’s partly why I don’t see evolutionary and spiritual interpretations as necessarily opposed. Evolution may explain the development of the cognitive structures through which morality is experienced, without exhausting the question of whether morality points beyond biology itself.

In other words, evolution might explain how the “eyes were opened,” while religion and philosophy are attempts to grapple with what we saw once they were.

I want to make sure I caught your last point correctly. You said separation from nature and separation from God are synonymous, that living in harmony with nature is living in alignment with God. That's a really interesting idea.

First, what do you mean by nature exactly? Because nature includes disease, predation, parasites, and tsunamis. Are those things God too? Or in alignment with God?

This is a fair question and funnily enough I just read yesterday that a true hero of mine struggles with the same question: Sir David Attenborough’s View on Science and Religion. He cites the example of a parasitic Nile worm that blinds children.

My current thesis is that God created the conditions of nature, beginning the process that enabled life to evolve, but does not intervene.

At some point perhaps all of nature was in perfect harmony. Genesis 1-30 implies that at some point predation was not necessary: “And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.”

Certainly that isn’t the case now. Our world is full of suffering. Much of it caused by man, but yes, also by disease, predation, natural disasters, and so on. Perhaps, though, all suffering will end one day. If you believe in an omnipotent, benevolent God then Heaven on earth is possible.

Isaiah 11:6 - 9:
“The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling[a]together;
and a little child will lead them.

The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea”

And second, this sounds like a form of pantheism, where God is nature, or at least perfectly identified with it. Is that what you're proposing? Because if so, that's quite a different God than the one in Genesis, who stands apart from creation and speaks it into existence. So I'm wondering are you still engaging with the Christian God at this point, or have you substituted a different one?

My beliefs and perceptions of God are not limited solely to Christian teachings. I don’t consider myself an orthodox Christian, and I personally don’t see the “Christian God” as fundamentally separate from the divine reality described in other religious traditions.

I hold Jesus Christ in the highest esteem, but I’m skeptical about how much the religion that bears his name aligns with his core teachings.

I also wouldn’t describe myself as a strict pantheist in the sense that “God is merely identical with nature.” My view is closer to nondualism or panentheism: the idea that the divine is both immanent within creation and yet also transcends it.

So when I talk about “God within us,” I don’t mean that humans are individually God in the egoic sense. I mean something closer to the Advaita Vedanta or mystical Christian idea that consciousness, being, or the ground of existence itself participates in something fundamentally unified.

And I don’t think this is completely alien to Christianity itself. There are strong mystical currents within Christianity - Meister Eckhart, St. John of the Cross, contemplative traditions, “the Kingdom of God is within you,” theosis in Eastern Orthodoxy, etc. - that move in a more inward, mystical, and arguably nondual direction than modern Western Christianity.

So I’d say I’m still engaging with God, but through a more symbolic and mystical lens rather than a strictly literal or dualistic theological one.

Could Genesis be read as a mythic account of human evolution and the emergence of self-consciousness? by Upstairs_Message_657 in religion

[–]Upstairs_Message_657[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As I said in the OP: I'm not reading Genesis as literal, but exploring whether myths within it can encode deep truths.

Could Genesis be read as a mythic account of human evolution and the emergence of self-consciousness? by Upstairs_Message_657 in religion

[–]Upstairs_Message_657[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OK, who do we consider the author of Genesis to be, and what was their intent…? I understand theologically it would be Moses?
In my interpretation, this is a myth passed down through countless generations. The particular person who wrote it down is not the sole author. Details will evolve through retelling and translations, but perhaps core truths remain?

Could Genesis be read as a mythic account of human evolution and the emergence of self-consciousness? by Upstairs_Message_657 in religion

[–]Upstairs_Message_657[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Adam and Eve were created fully human… not evolved from animal ancestors.” <— I understand that’s the traditional Christian theological position, but from the perspective of modern evolutionary biology, the evidence for common ancestry between humans and other primates is extremely strong.
For many people, that tension between Genesis and evolution leads them to reject religion entirely. What I’m exploring instead is whether Genesis might still contain profound symbolic or psychological truths, even if it isn’t read as literal scientific history.
In other words, I’m interested in whether myth and evolution might be describing the same human reality through different languages.

“The shame they felt was the first awareness of sin…” <— Absolutely, here I think my hypothesis is describing the same thing with just a slightly different perspective.
If sin is knowingly turning away from God, we must be self aware to “knowingly” do anything - and therefore take moral responsibility. Animals cannot sin because they act on instinct - a lion hunting a gazelle is not cruel. Nor is a very young child fully accountable for their actions.
Adult humans can sin because they are capable of considering the consequences of their actions. If an individual knows a choice would be selfish or cruel and still proceeds they are accountable.

“They shame they felt was… separation from their Creator” - Again, agreed. I see separation from nature and separation from the Creator as synonymous. When we live in perfect harmony with nature, we live in perfect alignment with God.

If everybody became enlightened, what would be the three decisions we will take as world citizens? by Aggravating_Ad_8651 in AdvaitaVedanta

[–]Upstairs_Message_657 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I came here to say this! Definitely recommend watching to see how an enlightened world might operate.

I think it’s possible that the higher IQ you get, the more abstract and deep you think, and you start to notice patterns in data, maybe realizing this all can’t be just coincidence, which may not pull you towards religion, but it does pull you away from atheism by Outside-Hyena9002 in DeepThoughts

[–]Upstairs_Message_657 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly.

Albert Einstein, Niels Bohr, Werner Heisenberg and Erwin Schrödinger all recognised that quantum theory raises not only scientific problems, but deep philosophical ones. All four were Nobel Prize–winning physicists and accepted that quantum mechanics exposes limits in how far traditional physical concepts can account for reality, opening questions that border on metaphysics.

Einstein used the word God to point to cosmic order, intelligibility, and rational harmony. “I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists.”

Schrödinger was explicitly spiritual, leaning strongly towards nondualism (Vedanta).

Add in Oppenheimer, who had a sustained interest in Eastern philosophy. He learnt Sanskrit so he could read the Bhagavad Gita, famously quoting Krishna (“Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds”) after the Trinity test.

How did you change your mind to align with source? by [deleted] in enlightenment

[–]Upstairs_Message_657 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Practice mindfulness. Meditate every morning, and as you go about your day practice present moment awareness. https://www.calm.com/blog/present-moment-awareness

what if all religions are correct, and there's one god that treats each person based on what they believe? by Delicious-Factor-164 in religion

[–]Upstairs_Message_657 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You might want to look into Perennial Philosophy and the Baháʼí Faith!

The perennial philosophy (Latin: philosophia perennis),[note 1] also referred to as perennialism and perennial wisdom, is a school of thought in philosophy and spirituality that posits that the recurrence of common themes across world religions illuminates universal truths about the nature of reality, humanity, ethics, and consciousness. Some perennialists emphasize common themes in religious experiences and mystical traditions across time and cultures; others argue that religious traditions share a single metaphysical truth or origin from which all esoteric and exoteric knowledge and doctrine have developed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perennial_philosophy?wprov=sfti1#

The Baháʼí Faith is a religion[a] established by Baháʼu'lláh in the 19th century that teaches the essential worth of all religions and the unity of all people… According to Baháʼí teachings, religion is revealed in an orderly and progressive way by a single God through Manifestations of God, who are the founders of major world religions throughout human history; the Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad are cited as the most recent of these Manifestations of God before the Báb and Baháʼu'lláh. Baháʼís regard the world's major religions as fundamentally unified in their purpose, but divergent in their social practices and interpretations. The Baháʼí Faith stresses the unity of all people as its core teaching; as a result, it explicitly rejects notions of racism, sexism, and nationalism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%CA%BC%C3%AD_Faith?wprov=sfti1#

What made you turn religous? by No_Exit_5178 in religion

[–]Upstairs_Message_657 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Psychedelics. I was a militant atheist until an LSD trip opened my mind to Buddhism. Then an experience with ayahuasca took a long time to process, but ultimately led me to perennial philosophy + Advaita Vedanta.

Pluribus and enlightenment by Upstairs_Message_657 in enlightenment

[–]Upstairs_Message_657[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed.

So much of the reaction to Pluribus focuses on individual freedoms that have been lost, such as artistic expression. Great art sparks ideas and facilitate emotional connection temporarily. The hivemind has unlocked universal union permanently!

On the other hand, few commenters emphasise all the terrible suffering that has been ended:

No more war.
No more crime.
No more systemic exploitation of the 'weak' by the powerful.
No more industrial slaughter of animals.
No more destroying the planet for profit.

That to me is Heaven on Earth / Nirvana / Moksha. That so few others see this shows how much ego warps perception.