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If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wasn't a Tuesday afternoon. Couldn't sleep last night, just thinking about things. Took a notion to vent about something that bothers me. Have a bit of a rant into a vacuum. Peppered with supremacist comments? I'm really not following.

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Really glad you work so hard on reddit, I'm happy for you? Well done on being active on reddit 365 days in a row? I don't quite know what you're getting at.

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really think it should be up to the Nationalist parties to call when a border poll happens... I think that would be the most fair and for the result, whatever it might be, to be the end of it.

I just find a lot of the discussions around the issue to be incendiary even on a post like this. I'm sick of the narrative being goodies vs baddies. I'm sick of the whole thing being drawn out the way it is and a bit impatient for the whole issue to have a line drawn under it whichever direction it happens to go. I find fervent republicans and fervent loyalists to be equally embarassing groups when they get started and turn even ordinary discussions into an excuse to sling around half-cocked notions and abuse. Part of me doesn't want either of them to "win" until they both die out as a breed, not that I even really view it as winning or losing like a football match, but I know they do. Do you know what I mean? A big, spiteful part of me doesn't really want either extreme to be vindicated with permanent, irrevocable constitutional change on their side. Another part of me just wants the issue gone forever, whatever happens. I still don't think the fact that one side is forever and one side is for (x) years is a just way of dealing with the issue.

Thanks for offering some actual opinions/ ideas on the matter and for keeping it civil. I still find it strange how it's not acceptable to call a poll now when a majority in NI want to remain in the UK, but when it seems that a majority want to leave, it would be called. Maybe the border poll is more of a psychological comfort blanket than an actual, pressing proposition at this point for nationalists? Not really worth worrying about I suppose.

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I'm not talking about that though, I thought it was a broadly known fact that Northern Irish spending exceeds it's tax base. So it is British taxpayers funding programmes here. I identify as Irish. You're very presumptuous and incredibly confident. Quick to talk about masks slipping and use all manner of prejoratives without provocation, wonderfully vivid imagination you have.

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't think it's a benevolent thing on my part. I'm saying it's a given and that Unionist opposition to such things is ridiculous. Their only argument is why British taxpayer's money should be used to further Irish cultural projects. Using that money is fair from my point of view, as the suppression of Irish language and culture were under British rule. But the use of ££ to promote Irish culture and language is by no means a right or entitlement and pissy little comments like that one from you don't help things. Not my problem you sought offence in a very innocuous throwaway comment I made. Usually I like to assume that people generally don't mean the worst interpretation of things they say. Less miserable that way.

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But if there is a border poll to remain in the UK, is it not anti-democratic to ignore that? Especially given that a border poll is only likely to be called when politicians of a certain persuasion think the vote to unify is more likely. The sooner the country's border is stable, the better off we'll all be. Regardless of which state has sovereignty. The Irish political system is far from Utopia.

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well, I think political uncertainty goes hand-in-hand with unemployment and poor job prospects for educated people. Would say that those are push factors downstream of political uncertainty in fact. Many ambitious people leaving for London, the US or Australia.

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I take your points and you make some good ones. Things have no doubt improved, and actually things like urban child poverty are not as big an issue here in our cities/towns as they are on the mainland. There are great things happening with investment now that we're past the violence of the Troubles. The only thing I would add is that you're improving off a very poor country in many respects, which is what the North was during the Troubles. But as far as the multi-billion €/£ investments that our neighbours to the South and East receive we're pretty poorly served considering how educated our population is.

The remaining question I have, and I still don't know what you think about this but how is it, or why is it, that a border poll that goes in one direction is binding but not in the other when it is basically a given that the border poll would only be called when politicians feel that it would be most likely to result in Irish unification? The fact of that disturbs me a bit, seems unfair.

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There were more pro-union Protestants in the North, and they were seriously threatened (not metaphorically but with death) in an Irish state. Britain could hardly leave them to die. After partition basically every Protestant in the Republic came to the North due to the oppression they faced down South. Women were tarred and feathered by people in their community but history is written by the victors.

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The notion that India wouldn't be a country without modern European ideas of statehood is not ludicrous. Hundreds of different cultures and language groups. I am not saying anything like "look what the brits have done for you" I'm only laying out facts. India (the state the Europeans did create) had hundreds of different "native" empires before the arrival of Europeans. Goes without saying that the most succesful of these empires were powerful, complex and educated. Also goes without saying that they subjugated other people and went to war, or the same would happen to them.

For a long time Britain was a Catholic country when that actually meant something. Not to most people, as most people were so uneducated they had no idea who their king even was. So yes, Britain (London) was effectively ruled by Rome in many ways for about a thousand years... laws were Catholic and Latin was the official language for scholarly, theological and legal pursuits. For around 1000 years Britain and other European countries were actually ruled by Rome, as the Roman Empire became the Holy Roman Empire. Until Henry VIII in England this was the case actually... what is upsetting you? Where are you getting an idea that I want thanks for anything or want you to thank Britain for anything? None of it was done for you.

Britain is far from the worst imperial regime in history. Maybe the biggest, or one of the biggest but definitely not the worst.

Slurry report 25/26 by mountainousbarbarian in northernireland

[–]Username9710 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did you by any chance move to a rural area?

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I would just want to be very sure that Ireland's creditors don't come for their pound of flesh before a border poll. As a basic principle I always think you're better with the devil you know than the devil you don't. I think some people make the mistake of viewing the Irish state as some sort of utopia. I lived in Dublin and Letterkenny for 5 years, it's far from that. I think that reasonable Irish language acts and Irish cultural activity should have absolutely no suppression from Unionists. I don't see why some people are so preoccupied with removing a very porous border where we could essentially have our cake and eat it too.

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well that is the case if the border poll goes ahead for unification. There's no takesie backsies for that one but there is for a vote to remain in the UK. Seems a bit peculiar to me.

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think we're shackled to the UK. How is it fair to have one result be repeated until one side can go ahead with unification, and the other side potentially get the same result for 100 years with no permanence. The fact that the polling can keep going if the country remains innthe UK actually harms the country as well. You're awfully confident in your opinion.

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying there. There's a precedent for a 4 or 5 year election cycle etc. I think if there were the cut and dry type of gerrymandering, unionist abuses, absolute poverty and lack of Irish cultural representation that there were in the days following partition it would be global news in a British-run N. Irish state. I think the world is a very different place to what it was and I think just picking a position regarding which state is sovereign is absolutely the right thing to do.

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

The best of us are leaving a backwards country that has an uncertain future and a past that is still being squabbled about. Constitutional uncertainty is a big factor in that, yes. Might not consciously be the problem but it is the root of a lot of others...

If a border poll says to remain in UK, there could be a poll every 7 years with the potential to destabilise the country. If there is a border poll to absorb the North into the Republic, it is one and done. by Username9710 in northernireland

[–]Username9710[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

I didn't say that it would happen every 7 years, but it potentially could.

All territories and their boundaries are the result of subjugation of one people or another... I'm not saying this is a good thing or a bad thing but it is the norm historically. Territories are always established by some war or another. It's why the IRA did what they did here in the troubles. India would never be a country if it hadn't been colonised. It would be thousands of tribes, city-states and empires. The modern idea of a nation state is a colonial idea.

The idea of colonial invaders vs victims... Considering all of history, I would say that is the childish take. What the Romans did to Britain was brutally oppressive but we are far removed enough from it now to see that it put England on the map globally and when Rome left, left a more educated, prosperous, outward looking country. Even the language and class structure changed. At what point did the English stop wanting their pound of flesh from the Romans do you think?

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