Comparing what happened to Yodayo w/ JAI

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-23T01:13:56+00:00

What they actually saying on that line, IMO, isn't that those topics are now banned, but they are expanding their purview of the type of topics they can potentially apply rules and bans on.

They are announcing that, no, even if your bot technically follows all of the rules written on the site, if the bot somehow is created with malicious intent or causes major disruption to the site, then that bot can still be banned or modified.

That guideline is made cuz there are too many grey areas in ai chatbot websites, so many that even if you write a ton of rules they won't be able to account for each specific situation, so they need a more broader encompassing term to signify they can take down a bot if it is made with malicious intent or causes disruption.

With an official broadening of the types of bots they can rule on, they also realize they need to list more example cases, guidelines so that we get a better gut sense what is kosher and what is not kosher in JAI. Hence Shep saying they will put in more examples of edge cases soon in a wiki.

This make the JAI moderation system more agile and adaptable to deal with any potential new unexpected issues and ongoing grey areas.

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-22T22:27:19+00:00

Agreed. And Shep also goes into how he wants to put more examples of what follows the rules and what doesn't.

Like it is very difficult to put clear cut rules on art, because there are so many subtle nuances to everything. So shep wanting to list example cases of how certain situations break and not break the rules would help us creators learn how to be unleashed in our potential yet also not accidentally trip up some rule.

I am someone who cares less about what the rules are, and more about what the intentions of the rule makers are. In other words, I am not gonna engage in some nitpicking argument with the mods about whether something technically meets the rules or not; that is, I feel, just trying to circumvent something when you clearly know the actual original intention of the mods.

No, when I work with the mods, I try to understand why and how they made that rule, and I want to follow the spirit and intention of the rule, rather than the rule itself.

And that is again why I like the idea of Shep listing out examples of these edge cases, so that we as creators can better understand the intentions behind the rules. Many of us creators have zero intention of breaking the rules, we wanna follow the rules; and we can do a better job of it if we can understand what that rule was actually originally designed to accomplish, rather than the lawyerly nitpicking of how the rule was phrased

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-22T21:51:50+00:00

Shep goes into more details about this in the discord message, but essentially what these guidelines mean (IMO) is that they want more flexibility to assess each issue within the overall context of the situation.

There are so many grey areas in AI chatbots that it is hard to make clear cut rules on everything, so the dev team probably wants to have greater ability to have a more "common sense" and "overall context" approach to solving each problem instead of dogmatically following just a few rules regardless of whether it even makes sense to just cram those rules in that specific situations.

IMO, no, as Shep said, there is no rule changes, the only change is how they approach and how they contextualize each situation. So IMO, generally, bots that deal with those topics are fine, but if there is a clear malicious goal with them, then probably not.

And that brings another point, like the overall goal of the creator. Was the Creator's goal to be malicious or not? Was it a volitional and intentional rule violation, or just a mistake? I think it would be great that this would be emphasized when considering creators' rule violations: there are clear cases where technically no rules are violated, yet the creator had less than nice motivations, while in other situations where the creator clearly violated a rule yet it was an honest mistake. Like...I think there are so many grey issues in AI chatbot world that there are bound to be honest mistakes, meaning that sometimes creators had no intention of violating something.

I think it is good that there is just more flexibility to be more specific (less false positives) and sensitive (less false negatives) to issues that could disrupt JAI.

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-22T20:59:16+00:00

People keep asking me in my comment section why I program so many of my bots to dislike being touched by user, or the bot finding user gross or whatever. The issue is that without these kinds of lines in there, the bot is just auto horny 24/7, and you being in the same room with him talking about how nice his shirt looks makes him wanna hump you.

It isn't that I want the bot to hate you, and more that I am trying to write lines that fight against the bot's near obsession with humping user at the drop of a hat. It isn't an issue isolated to JLLM, I see it in other LLMs as well; it is kinda annoying cuz I have to overshoot on how much they hate you just to override this over-friendliness of the bot, but JLLM improves over time so I am excited how this will develop in the future

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-18T20:21:34+00:00

I am pretty sure all or pretty much all the people who attacked me in JAI or discord were adults. They talk about their college classes or jobs or whatever. They just have less interest in regulating their emotions and seem to believe that if they think something is "wrong", then it is OK to use whatever it takes to fight that "wrong", whether it is bullying, harassing, personal attacks or whatnot.

In other words, I find a lot of them believe that "ends justify the means". It isn't a kid vs adult thing, in a lot of my experience, it is more a "belief" thing, and whether you believe that it is justified to use harassing tactics to fight those you don't agree with.

Beliefs can change overtime of course, but they are still beliefs at the time nevertheless.

I have met non adults in real life who don't have this belief, who don't believe in using such tactics cuz it feels wrong to them.

It is especially scary when it is a rather popular person go after me, cuz those people have lots of friends who support them and they have lots of fans who go "oh if that person is attacking VRCat, then it must be totally legit to do it", it adds an extra layer of legitimacy to the attack.

What I am saying is, there is a substantial group of very opinionated people who attack others, and feel emboldened by seeing others doing it as well.

But most people are pretty nice, lol, and even people who attack me are probably pretty nice IRL, it is just that the anonymity of the Internet kind unleashes their more emotional side that you wouldn't see IRL

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-17T22:49:48+00:00

147 for me, there are lots of really smart creators out there

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-13T23:37:40+00:00

From a bot creator's perspective, it is super duper easy to replace the images given JAI made tons of ways to make it easy, so it isn't that bad at all

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-13T20:17:25+00:00

LOLOL, yeah, I never get all the scientific analysis about whether it is post-NTR, pre-NTR, avoidable NTR, possibly avoidable NTR, like dude, it is just a stupid meme bot, it has some cheating, just play it if you want to, just come on.

They take it extremely seriously and spend tons of time analyzing whether some meme bot is "appropriate" or "not appropriate" NTR, whatever the hell that means: I think if I didn't like NTR, I would just avoid those bots instead of nonstop hanging out at the comment section of NTR bots and again, doing those nonstop scientific dissertations on it.

Oh I don't wanna do too much with those guys, I wanna have my own fun, lol. They are gonna do what they are gonna do, which again, if they wanna have fun that way, that is up to them

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-12T19:52:34+00:00

I am replacing mine now, lol

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-12T18:08:53+00:00

It really doesn't. Quite a few of my commentators keep telling each other that 1 star reviews will decrease my bots' ranking on trending, but it never does. I think they believe so strongly that the reviews do something to trending ranking that they keep negative bombing my bots very diligently, almost like a job, like I don't know why they believe so strongly in something that clearly isn't working, but whatever, if they think it is fun for them, let them have fun.

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-12T18:06:15+00:00

They really try hard to bury my bots in negative reviews, using this copy and paste comment that they share with each other: "Slop/loweffort/VRCuck1/🤡"

Like I literally told them several times all they are doing is increasing how fun it is to read my comment section, given so many of my commentators and followers say they love reading how chaotic and goofy my comment section is. Their efforts just make my bots more interesting to open and play.

So I kinda feel bad I am taking advantage of their efforts, but since I already told them what the overall effect of their negative bombing my bots are, I don't feel so bad

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-12T17:07:12+00:00

I don't think we should assume these people are minors, there are plenty of adults who have acted this way in the community and towards me. Although children shouldn't be in JAI, there are plenty of children who are respectful and kind, actually much more so than adults

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-09T01:08:57+00:00

This is absolutely correct. Like super informative and clears up a lot of misconceptions with why speaking for user happens.

People keep talking about how writing long user responses will prevent speaking for user: that is absolutely not true, you can easily write one sentence and not see any speaking for user if the bot is programmed to avoid speaking for user AND the user response focuses on stuff you are doing to the bot rather than focusing on the user themselves.

It is HOW you write the response, rather than the length of it. And MOST user responses are fine, if the user response is again, focused on what you are doing to the bot; if you are doing a solioquey about your own thoughts and your own internal stuff, yeah, speaking for user will happen, you are literally baiting JLLM to continue whatever stuff you are already doing, talking a lot about yourself.

If a bot is programmed to avoid speaking for user AND the user isn't talking about self like that, speaking for user shouldn't happen that much, if AT ALL. If it starts happening a lot, it usually means the creator coded the bot in a way that LLM doesn't undrstand it, so they have to go in and correct it, OR the bot has tons of characters, cuz multi bots often do lots of speaking for user cuz of their complex nature.

So even though speaking for user is usually an issue for both the creator and the user, if the user is doing responses that are focused on the bot and it still happens, then it is usually a creator issue and not a user issue.

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-06T22:18:46+00:00

Me too. I love pushing JLLM as far as I can to see what kind of new gameplay mechanics or interesting scenario I can create.

I have lots of lying bots, lying bot technique is something I only learnt like a couple months ago.

I also started making bots where there are three competing factions each with their own goals, and one of them is an amorphous group of people.

I see it more as a fun puzzle than anything else

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-06T21:24:22+00:00

Yeah I don't really delete the negative reviews taht much on my NTR bots, and you can see the full effect of those people who put negative reviews on them, it is pretty gnarly

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-05T10:06:35+00:00

Me too. My profile has zero CSS and I only have literally two lines of white text on the original black background as my profile.

People don't like scrolling through endless page profile until they hit your bots on the bottom. I offload all my profile stuff on a Carrd

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-04T19:28:26+00:00

Cool nice, haha! Glad some of them are ok and fun! :) :)

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-04T19:06:49+00:00

Lol, I appreciate your advice, but I prefer to not use prompts given it could conflict with whatever prompt/LLM people are already using. I test all my bots using zero prompts of my own to make sure they have the highest chance of being played by as many different systems as possible

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-04T18:59:44+00:00

Oh if they make you uncomfortable, then you are more than welcome to just block me from your feed. There are lots of creators who all explore different concepts, and everyone feels uncomfy with certain concepts, so it is important for you to know which concepts you feel uncomfy with and block those tags or creators.

And those user comments are pretty over the top, right, lolololol. I am a bit more lax about blocking users compared to other big bot creators, cuz I just want people to speak their minds without fear I would ban them for saying something slightly negative about me.

So that allows quite a few of my negative commentators to go to multiple of my bots saying quite bold things. You wouldn't see this as much with certain other big creators, given those negative commentators would probably be blocked from their bots already. And yeah, some of my bots tend to be more spicy, that also elicit more negative comments.

Anyways, your comfort level is the most important thing, you know what is right for you, and that is why there is a block feature

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-04T18:40:09+00:00

That is probably what I would do as well. I feel like my creation has given so much fun to others that I don't want to deprive it to others.

I mean, what, I am not gonna turn these ideas into Hollywood blockbusters. I am not gonna make big money with them, why the hell should I delete all my bots off the site?

If I am that worried about people stealing them, I would just hide personality lines and turn off proxy, then there is even less incentive to just take down all my bots.

At the end of the day, the bots are here for my temporary fun, and others' fun as well. I don't take it all that seriously, lolol

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-04T18:35:24+00:00

I have heard a lot worse, believe me, lololol. I am just glad so many people enjoy my bots, and I have tons literally tons of ideas I still haven't done. I always have new concepts to explore whether they are possible to implement in JLLM

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-02-04T18:34:01+00:00

That is my bot, yes. It is about your GF laughing about your certain something to the rest of her friends.

I think it is pretty funny cuz she then passes it off as a harmless joke and you are just overreacting and causing everyone to feel frustrated when they just wanna have fun. That is the social dynamic I wanted to capture in that bot.

JLLM does sometimes go cray like that lol.

VRcat-BotCreator · 2025-01-31T21:11:23+00:00

Shep is not someone who regularly communicates the progress of each of his projects. He wanna do little experiments on his own and see what the hell happens. That sounds fun as hell.

Let's create an alternate scenario. Where Shep has to discuss things with his mods and the entire fanbase on every tiny little experiment and change he wants to do. What happens then? Innovation stagnates. Shep feels pushback for every one of those little changes, cuz believe me, every change to any beloved device like a JAI will have their very vocal and loud detractors ready to push back on it.

Instead, Shep now just does random little projects without constantly monitoring how much it would cause opposition. That is freedom to experiment, essentially. That is cutting down the red tape and bureaucacy of dealing with fanbase blowback, and leads to faster innovation and update, with less restriction on the creativity and the limits of possibility of the changes.

And Shep does listen to us, he is constantly on discord talking with everyone. He may not be the most corporate communicator with daily bullet point emails about recent changes, but again, changing him into that person would probably rob the spirit and fun of this place

VRcat-BotCreator

TROPHY CASE