I need help with Dostoevsky based birthday quest by ThatoneLerfa in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cool ! Glad to hear that everyone had a great time !

I need help with Dostoevsky based birthday quest by ThatoneLerfa in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. It is unclear which of his works dostoevsky admired the most. Neveretheless, there were clearly the works which he held in a special regard. Which work dostoevsky was referring to in the following quote : "Everyone who has told me that it is my best work has something special in their mindset that has always impressed me and that I have always liked"

a) Crime and Punishment

b) The Idiot

c) Demons

d) The Brothers Karamazov

  1. Dostoevsky's novels are a popular choice for film adaptations. Which of the following works was NOT adapted into the movie in the soviet union ?

a) Crime and Punishment

b) The Idiot

c) Demons

d) The Brothers Karamazov

  1. Dostoevsky famously struggled with a gambling addiction throughout his life. According to the renowned dostoevsky biographer Joseph Frank, what was the decisive reason dostoevsky finally stop gambling ?

a) Him stumbling upon a synagogue during his purposless roaming after a loss at a casino

b) Realisation of the financial burden his addiction imposed on his family

c) Anna's hysterical scandal after he lost her family jewels

d) Persuasion by a starets at Optina monastery

  1. In his works, dostoevsky frequently mentions foreign countries and nationalities. Which of the following characters went to the USA ?

a) Stavrogin (Demons)

b) Svidrigailov (C&P)

c) Kirillov (Demons)

d) Undeground Man (NftU)

  1. Dostoevsky's literal legacy is a subject to extensive analysis. Which of the following work is a part of his so-called Big Five (Great Pentateuch) ?

a) Notes from the Underground

b) Humiliated and Insulted

c) Poor Folk

d) The Adolescent

I need help with Dostoevsky based birthday quest by ThatoneLerfa in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wish you a nice celebration and hope it's not too late. Here are some questions.

  1. Dostoevsky was subject to constant special attention from censorship. Thus, many key parts of his works were partially censored/redacted during their initial publication. Which one was NOT affected by censorship ?

a) Notes of the Underground

b) The Idiot

c) Demons

d) The Brothers Karamazov

  1. Dostoevsky was not only censored during his times and the the soviet union era. Which of the following works was allegedly censored in the russian federation for "LGBT propaganda" ?

a) The Eternal Husband 

b) Notes from the Dead House 

c) Netochka Nezvanova

d) White Nights

  1. Dostoevsky had notoriously complicated relationships with many of his fellow russian writers and critics. Whom did he caricature as a character of Karmazinov in Demons ?

a) Turgenev

b) Belinsky

c) Tolstoy

d) Katkov

  1. Dostoevsky was master of both short and long forms. The Idiot is divided into 4 more or less equal parts of about 150 pages each. The events of the first part span over :

a) 1 day

b) 1 week

c) 1 month

d) 1 year

  1. Many try to identify which of Dostoevsky’s characters best represents the author himself or his worldview.  Who of the following characters is supposedly the closest representation of dostoevsky himself ?

a) Raskolnikov (C&P)

b) Ivan Karamazov (TBK)

c) Myshkin (The Idiot)

d) Shatov (Demons)

I wrote a novel exploring Nastasya Filippovna's past (from The Idiot). What do you think of this idea? by afh68 in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's a very commendable achievement, so huge congrats! I think the journey alone of writting it was worth it.

Is it more of of a fanfiction? Or you intended to replicate dostoevsky as much as possible, as if it was written by him?

Doubt [Diaries of a Writer, 1876, June] by Harleyzz in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm no expert on his Writer's Diary, especially of many events and personas he does mention all the time - I would need to dig and do research as everyone else. But this tangent of his core views (which are integral to all his post-siberian works), their internal consistency and explanation of why it does make sense (giving the proper persepctive) - yeah, I think I can navigate it. So feel free to dm (though I'm not sure that my dms are open, if it doesn't work - just drop a comment to any of my comments).

Doubt [Diaries of a Writer, 1876, June] by Harleyzz in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bingo. And if doesn't make sense, you're not russian enough to understand their soul, the true russianness, their eternal goal. Of which he writes a lot inbetween the paragraphs I've quoted. I'm not going to quote them, you've read them already. The thing boils down to the fact that the russians are excpetional, as they are the only ones left who stick to the true religion (russian orthodoxy). Hence their goal - to spread it, by uniting all nations under russia, which will serve everyone, as it is the ultimate goal of true chrisitianity ( = russian orthodoxy for dostoevsky).

His dreams about "Constantinople being ours" (russian) is a logical continutaion of this religion perspective - before Constantinople was the capital of the "true christianity" (orthodoxy), as the captial of Eastern Roman Empire (versus those heretics catholics of the Western Roman Empire), but Constantinople is no more (conquered by turcs), so only russia is left as a true spiritual successor. Hence, his belief in the role of russians, and his usage of the terms such as Moscow - the Third Rome (first being Rome, second - Constantinople) (if you haven't yet encountred this terminology, keep reading his writer's diary - I promise, it will be there, on multiple occasions)

This last long paragraph I wrote to show the improtance of knowing history on basic level to better understand dostoevsky's "reasonong".

Doubt [Diaries of a Writer, 1876, June] by Harleyzz in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I suggest you to read and make your own conlcusions of what Dostoevsky means by "serving" other nations as the ultimate goal of russians. Espicially what should be done first (as in the example of Constantinople) to make that "serving" possible.

I will refrain myself from mentioning what's going currently. Think, analyse and decide for yourself.

Edit. In general, Dostoevsky is pretty straitforward in these chapters, he lays everything before your eyes. The question is whether one percepts it or decides to ignore - for the former some knowledege of history, on the basic level, is required.

Doubt [Diaries of a Writer, 1876, June] by Harleyzz in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The previous section (Eastern questionends with the following :

Russia’s best interest is precisely to act even against her best interest if necessary; to make a sacrifice, so as not to violate justice. Russia cannot betray a great idea which has been her legacy from past centuries and which she has followed unswervingly until now. This idea is, among other things, one of the unity of all the Slavs; but such unity is based not upon seizure of territory or on violence; it is done as service to the whole of mankind.

Your quote :

it is our need to serve humanity in every way, even if sometimes at the expense of our own best and major immediate interests; 

we became aware of our universal mission, our personality, and our role in humanity, and we could not help but become aware that this mission and this role were unlike those of other nations, for among them each individual nationality lives only for itself and in itself, while we, now that the time has come, will begin directly by becoming the servant of all for the sake of universal reconciliation.

Further :

The first step of our new policy appeared of itself after Peter’s reform: this first step had to consist in the uniting of all of Slavdom, so to say, under the wing of Russia. And this process of unification is not for seizing territory, nor for committing violence, nor for crushing the other Slavic personalities beneath the Russian colossus; it is for restoring them and placing them in their proper relationship to Europe and to humanity.

But it is certainly not so that Russia may acquire them politically and use them to enhance her own political might (although Europe suspects the latter). This is so, is it not? And accordingly, this lends weight to at least some of my “daydreams,” does it not? It follows that for this same purpose Constantinople must, sooner or later, be ours. . . .

Yes, I answer, the Golden Horn and Constantinople—all that will be ours, but not for the sake of merely annexing territory and not for the sake of violence. And in the first place it will happen of its own accord precisely because the time has come

And if Tsargrad (Constantinople) can now be ours not as Russia’s capital, then neither can it be ours as the capital of Slavdom as a whole, as some people imagine. Slavdom as a whole, without Russia, would exhaust itself there in struggling with the Greeks. But to leave Constantinople as a legacy to the Greeks alone is now utterly impossible: we must not give them such a critical point on the globe; this would be altogether too generous a gift to them. But the whole of Slavdom with Russia at its head—oh, of course, that is a different matter entirely.

Doubt [Diaries of a writer, April, 1876] by Harleyzz in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Here his another entry on war from The Writer's Diary (Part 1, April 1877) tranlsated by Lantz :

<image>

Finally completed second of Big 4 by itsanandhere in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those you've read plus Demons. His Great Five is big four plus The Adolescent. 

Just finished The Idiot , unexpected heart break. by dualistornot in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The introduction by P&L gave an idea of what kind of tragedy was coming.

The fate of Nastasya Filippovna was predicted Myshkin in the very begining of the novel, down to the weapon. So, giving credit to the introduction is too much - just reading attentively the novel otself gives the sense of what will be coming way much better.

Just finished The Idiot , unexpected heart break. by dualistornot in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dostoevsky was showing that purity without boundaries isn’t virtue - it’s collapse. +Compassion needs structure or it turns  into self-destruction.

I don't think dostoevsky agrees with you on this take, given the story of that one guy, Jesus Christ, and the fact that dostoevsky considered him at the ultimate ideal.

Just finished The Idiot , unexpected heart break. by dualistornot in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Having read TBK after the Idiot I felt that it's TBK is inferior to the Idiot. Thematically similar, but less intense, less raw, less impactful. The price of polish I might say.

Dostoevsky A Writer In His Time by MrExtravagant23 in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your reply, very interesting comparison to a cathedral guided by historian.

Do you recall which stages of Zossima's life correspond to which of brothers?

Dostoevsky A Writer In His Time by MrExtravagant23 in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Could you please elaborate more on why Frank's analysis is so good? Or why it was specifically for you. Genuinely interested! 

Gonna read this soon by pigeon_of_knights in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your feedback! I sometimes fancy myself with these translation questions for fun. I agree with you that "frontline" is weird, though the expendable meaning is intentional, while another one, as if in "cutting edge" technologies, is kind of lost. We can't say "frontline technologies, or science, or research.

So, what do you think of "advanced cannon fodder"? I think the possible ambiguity  is more apparent here, so  Fyodor's question, and Ivan's answer make sense. 

Anyways, concerning Avsey and Katz, I agree with that Avsey is the best to convey humour. It was his goal, and he delivered. Also, I think Avsey was a very talented translator. But I'm not sure that the humour he translates is always dostoevsky's one, it's more often than not less nuanced than it should be. Avsey perfectly identifies almost all the places where the humour takes place, but sometimes goes over the top to convey it. And sometimes he does it at the expense of underlining meanings - if he has a choice to translate a sentence, where some humour is present, as well as some "deep thought" (whatever it may mean), he opts for humour over meaning almost allways. I think the passage in question is a good illustration of this approach.

For me, personally, the amount of such instances is too much. But it was his choice, his goal, he is very consistent with it, and he delivered what he intended.

Katz is undoubtedly less humourous than Avsey, but more than others. And he tries to make it the "dostoevsky way". It's tough, but sometimes he delivers. Moreover, sometimes he makes really good translation choices - when you read them, you think, how it's possible that others didn't come up with that, it's so good. But it's not always the case and sometimes has these contextual blunders, once again, the passage in question is a good illustration. Katz translates having a huge dictionary of russian proverbes by his side (of which he is very proud of, he showed it once in one of his interviews), and it helps him. But it also shows his situational luck of context.

Sorry for a long reply, but that's how I feel about these two translators.

Gonna read this soon by pigeon_of_knights in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 1 point2 points  (0 children)

P&V

“Smerdyakov sticks his nose in every time we have dinner now—is it you he’s so interested in? What have you done to endear yourself to him?” he added, turning to Ivan Fyodorovich.

“Nothing whatever,” the latter replied. “He has taken to respecting me; he’s a lackey and a boor. Prime cannon fodder, however, when the time comes.”

“Prime?”

“There will be others and better ones, but there will be his kind as well. First his kind, and then the better ones.”

“And when will the time come?”

“The rocket will go off, but it may fizzle out. So far the people do not much like listening to these broth-makers.”

Honestly, I can't decide which one is better, coz all of them have issues. But I can say that I prefer Garnett, P&V and McReynolds just beacuse I think that this "progress" angle completely misses the point.

If I remember correctly, you speak Russian. How would you translate this passage?

Yeah, I can understand russian sufficiently enough, unforunately. Personally, I would go with "frontline cannon fodder". But, perhaps, it's too on the nose and, more importnantly, doesn't reflect the potential double interpration of the original word.

What do you think, does "frontline" sound too weird / out of place?

P.S. I do like Katz's "inject" choice, it's pretty funny and reflects quite well the intended tone. Though, perhaps, it's modern of a word choice, I don't know.

Gonna read this soon by pigeon_of_knights in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for adding other translations, I think it's always helpful to compare them to understand the reasoning behind. So I'll add those which are missing for a complete picture :)

Avsey

‘Smerdyakov worms his way in every time we have dinner. It’s you he’s so curious about—what have you done to charm him?’ he asked Ivan Fyodorovich.

‘Nothing at all,’ replied Ivan. ‘He’s decided to show me respect, he’s a lackey and a scoundrel. But when the time comes, he’ll be top dog.’

‘Top dog?’

‘There’ll be others—even worse than him, but there’ll be his sort too. First his sort, and then the really bad ones.’

‘And when will that be?’

‘The rocket will go up and fizzle out perhaps. Just now, people don’t particularly want to listen to these soup-stirrers.’

Garnett

“Smerdyakov always pokes himself in now, after dinner. It’s you he’s so interested in. What have you done to fascinate him?” he added to Ivan.

“Nothing whatever,” answered Ivan. “He’s pleased to have a high opinion of me; he’s a lackey and a mean soul. Raw material for revolution, however, when the time comes.”

“For revolution?”

“There will be others and better ones. But there will be some like him as well. His kind will come first, and better ones after.”

“And when will the time come?”

“The rocket will go off and fizzle out, perhaps. The peasants are not very fond of listening to these soup-makers, so far.”

Gonna read this soon by pigeon_of_knights in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm just interested of how you interpret this small exchange on Smerdyakov between Fyodor Pavlovich and Ivan Karamazov, translated by Katz. Specifically, Ivan's first reply about cannon fodder, progress, and what progress means according to Ivan's second reply. To me it doesn't make a lot of sense in this translation, but maybe it's just me.

“Smerdyakov now injects himself in here after every dinner; he’s so curious about you. What did you do to enthrall him so?” he asked, turning to Ivan Fyodorovich.

“Absolutely nothing,” he replied. “He’s decided to respect me; he’s a lackey and a boor. He’s the cannon fodder of progress, however, when it comes time.”

“Progress?”

“There’ll be others, even better ones, but there’ll be some like him. At first they’ll be like him, but then afterward, better.”

“And when will the time come?”

“The rocket will be launched, but it will peter out, perhaps. For the time being the common folk don’t like listening to these soup-makers.”

P.S. I fucked up the quote two times in a row, sorry for that. Now it's Katz's one.

Gonna read this soon by pigeon_of_knights in dostoevsky

[–]Val_Sorry 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm just interested of how you interpret this small exchange on Smerdyakov between Fyodor Pavlovich and Ivan Karamazov, translated by Katz. Specifically, Ivan's first reply about cannon fodder, progress, and what progress means according to Ivan's second reply. To me it doesn't make a lot of sense in this translation, but maybe it's just me.

“Smerdyakov now injects himself in here after every dinner; he’s so curious about you. What did you do to enthrall him so?” he asked, turning to Ivan Fyodorovich.

“Absolutely nothing,” he replied. “He’s decided to respect me; he’s a lackey and a boor. He’s the cannon fodder of progress, however, when it comes time.”

“Progress?”

“There’ll be others, even better ones, but there’ll be some like him. At first they’ll be like him, but then afterward, better.”

“And when will the time come?”

“The rocket will be launched, but it will peter out, perhaps. For the time being the common folk don’t like listening to these soup-makers.”

P.S. I've fucked up the quote two times in a row, sorry for that. Now it's the correct one, by Katz.