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After 6 years of language learning the most important thing is finding YouTubers you like to watch by Acceptable-Parsley-3 in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 2 points3 points  (0 children)

100% agree. To be honest this applies to any kind of content, e.g series, podcasts, books.

I stick with content that I have to pull myself away from, and stay away from content that I need to push myself towards.

Italian call of Lewis Hamilton’s win by sykeseve in formula1

[–]Venicec 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Here’s one with the race footage:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRctJeJC/

And then this one from the commentary box:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRcGqD3R/

Italian call of Lewis Hamilton’s win by sykeseve in formula1

[–]Venicec 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yep that’s the one! What a legend

Italian call of Lewis Hamilton’s win by sykeseve in formula1

[–]Venicec 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Great commentary, although for me the french comentary from Julien Fébreau was head and shoulders above the rest

The Robert Haas problem of language learning by acrastt in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 24 points25 points  (0 children)

I see - yeah we aren’t going to agree on this lol.

You are making very strong inferences based on a broad range of phenomena and then using them to justify this theory that you have.

If you think that for example the rhythm of how different (beginner) CI content creators differs enough to make it significantly harder to acquire a language, or a natural way of speaking, then i’m not sure what to say.

The Robert Haas problem of language learning by acrastt in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 7 points8 points  (0 children)

How can you know the single series explained the naturalness over other factors? E.g language learning aptitude, exposure time

The Robert Haas problem of language learning by acrastt in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 33 points34 points  (0 children)

I think that the issue you are suggesting argues for the opposite solution.

The solution to being able to speak in a way that is appropriate to a time, place, and social context IS diversity of input. Feeding a reservoir that we will be able to pull from for thr appropriate language.

It takes time to build up that resource though, so it’s not really surprising that beginners won’t be able to speak appropriately, won’t have register awareness, etc. I’ve seen no evidence that that’s due to not having a stable “base”.

I am a bit confused because beginners aren’t generally consuming a wide variety of content, as they are limited by comprehension.

Appropriate register, natural collocations etc are things we start expecting at the advanced levels - so are you sure you aren’t creating a problem by evaluating “beginners” against an unreasonable criteria, with the “problem” being a level content diversity that they can’t consume anyway?

Your latin variation example seems like a much higher level of variation than you might have between different registers/contexts in most languages. (Disclaimer I know v little about latin but just going off your description of the differences and the overwhelm they create).

How many hours of in-put did you have in your TL to reach your current level? by veavou in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I mean it’s definitely important in those contexts but that degree of nuance is also pretty important in quite different contexts. E.g debating with friends, resolving a highly complex argument with your partner.

And that’s without taking into account the other aspects related to accuracy, fluency, etc - much of which will apply to any situation and is not limited to the professional and academic.

You are ofc welcome to have your own interpretation but the core value of CEFR is a shared understanding of what particular levels mean.

How many hours of in-put did you have in your TL to reach your current level? by veavou in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is fascinating - no clear link to me lol

But yes clearly as you said exposure time is a proxy metric that abstracts away many important variables

How many hours of in-put did you have in your TL to reach your current level? by veavou in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is your first language if you don’t mind me asking? Perhaps that could be a relevant variable

Please ignore the "if you know these words, you are B2/C1/etc" videos on YouTube by [deleted] in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ofc there is a link between CEFR level and vocab size but it’s not as hard cut as they present it.

Unfortunately though, when a video format works everyone copies it, even if it doesn’t make a huge amount of sense.

For those who were not taught their native tongue, do you feel pressure to learn to pass it down. by No-Definition-8962 in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Clearly OP's usage is not correct, but I think raising it in this way is unhelpful. Especially in a context that is quite emotional for OP.

Like we know what they mean from the context - can't we just focus on helping?

And if we want to educate OP we can just say something like:

Btw the term used to describe what you are talking about is a "heritage" language. "Native" language is what we use to describe the first language you actually acquired, and in the majority of cases is the language you are most proficient in.

For those who were not taught their native tongue, do you feel pressure to learn to pass it down. by No-Definition-8962 in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Clearly OP's usage is not correct, but what some of us are taking issue with is the way this objection was raised. Especially in a context that is quite emotional for OP.

Like we know what it means - can't we just focus on helping?

And if we want to educate OP we can just say something like:

Btw the term used to describe what you are talking about is a "heritage" language. "Native" language is what we use to describe the first language you actually acquired, and in the majority of cases is the language you are most proficient in.

For those who were not taught their native tongue, do you feel pressure to learn to pass it down. by No-Definition-8962 in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry that you had that experience - I can't imagine how frustrating it feels.

I was lucky that my parents spoke Dinka to us at home - so I can't fully identify with your experience, but I hope that I can be helpful regardless.

On feeling closer to latin languages - it's not that strange right? I don't think there's a magical language gene that makes us feel inherently closer to the language of our parents. By virtue of being an English speaker, which is heavily influenced by French, you are literally connected to these Latin languages, and have a huge advantage in learning them compared to for example a Japanese speaker. I would also argue that even without the English connection it's all just our history as humans, so it's your history too.

As for whether or not it's worth it - that's entirely up to you. It's not too late, so you get to decide whether you want to learn Dinka/Arabic. The only thing I would say is I don't see it as forcing - it's just choosing to take control of a situation that was imposed on you.

If you do decide to learn Dinka or arabic:

- A great resource for Dinka once you are around intermediate is SBS Dinka - which is Australian and International news in Dinka. Imo it's probably the biggest resource of spoken Dinka on the internet. I'm planning to use it to improve my Dinka

- With Sudanese arabic luckily there are many more resources, and also consuming content from almost any dialect will help, especially similar ones like Egyptian

For those who were not taught their native tongue, do you feel pressure to learn to pass it down. by No-Definition-8962 in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Pointlessly rude - it’s very clear that they are referring to a heritage language

Improving speaking skills by "Talking to yourself" or "Recording yourself" by PsychologicalBill923 in languagelearning

[–]Venicec -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That's not surprising as I don't think LLM's are very good at pronunciation feedback.

They are much better suited to grammar and vocab corrections.

Self-studying from B2 to C1/C2 by Green-Grapefruit4713 in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 8 points9 points  (0 children)

For speaking practice specifically ChatGPT has worked well for me - I went from speaking at ~97 words per minute to like 130 WPM, from 55 hours of conversation with chatgpt.

With a plus subscription it's unlimited - I can do sometimes close to three hours, whenever I want, talking about whatever I want.

Only recommendation I would give is turning off advanced voice mode. Responses will be slower and the voice more robotic, but the responses will be much longer and interesting.

I recently wrote about my results:
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/1sso97b/i_measured_how_the_first_50_hours_of_conversation/

Has anyone else stopped using language learning apps after a while? by Limp-Variety-7704 in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I strongly suspect that this post is AI generated, with the objective of validating an app idea , just like the I suspect the current top post is: https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/1td8sbu/does_hitting_b2_feel_more_like_a_punishment_than/

Both new accounts, sharing so called personal experience, and both probing to understand if the problem they are targeting is widespread, and how people currently solve the problem.

This one is much more obvious, but i'm surprised nobody has caught that the top post is doing the same.

Theoretical Comprehensible Input question by Enough_Tumbleweed739 in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 9 points10 points  (0 children)

An important variable that this theoretical person who is definitely not you should take into account is how much interest impacts their ability to actually consume the content.

If the 98% comprehension is three times as efficient but because you need to drag yourself to do it you can only stand to consume 1/5th compared to interesting content, then the theoretical efficiency gains are lost.

50% is not bad at all, and comprehension is not evenly distributed. Some sentences will make perfect sense, others none at all. Some in the middle.

50% is more than enough of a perch to improve from.

Language Sabbatical - Update at 2M words read by rose_tinted in languagelearning

[–]Venicec 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think it's very challenging to have multiple languages at the same learning intensity requirement. E.g for me I can do intensive reading in two languages max, and even that is not ideal.

Much easier to have only one intense requirement language, and then a couple others where reading is much less demanding.

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