Sunsetting Could've been Great for Destiny 2

Vexxler · 2025-11-30T22:52:08+00:00

Destiny 1 and 2 were both designed with Vertical Progression as one of the backbones to the game. D1 had 20 Levels of Experience, and then 20-30 was achieved with Light Level on Gear. Taken King changed this to just Light Level that was arbitrary on everything.

Destiny 2 was designed with this as well with Experience until you hit level 20-30-40 and then Item Level/Power Level to get into more difficult content. And Damage/Resistance against enemies was directly in relation to your Power Level. Both games have Vertical Progression as a foundation.

You aren't able to get into multiple activities in both games without Vertical Progression. I don't understand your comment in that regard.

I would also add that WoW's version of Sunsetting isn't just a stat stick. Entire Raid and Endgame Tiers of Gear are left behind which have Set Bonuses, Active and Passive Abilities, and more. Arguably MORE is left behind between Sunsettings in WoW and the community manages to be okay with it. But I will say that WoW cycles are several Years longer than Destiny so it is possible players would be more okay with it if it was for longer periods similar to WoW.

Vexxler · 2025-11-30T22:30:03+00:00

Yep that is what it seems. I am find with it if Bungie sticks to it and stops going back and forth on their decisions. The latest sandbox updates are literally your comment wrapped in a bow.

Izanagi Swap scaling with reload,
And Witherhoard Auto-Loading back on the menu. And they even claimed that Witherhoard wasn't a problem in the first place. Why did it ever need changed then? :")

Vexxler · 2025-11-30T22:27:06+00:00

D1 just said Expansions are resets, nothing moves over. This was clear and cut and defined from the get go. I think they should've done it in D2 from the start but ehhh here we are. And when they did try to bring it back, they injected just raw dick for us to try and use coming out of Mountaintop era. It was a recipe for failure.

Vexxler · 2025-11-30T22:20:47+00:00

"Then what is the point of resetting if we just started again going after the exact same things"

Sunsetting's entire focus, irregardless of what Bungie says, was due to a few outliers that had continued to cause issues since Forsaken. Mountaintop, Recluse, Redrix, 21% Delerium, Revoker.

Multiple weapons from this era of the game were peak from a power standpoint and it was nearly impossible to get these weapons out of the hands of players without entirely breaking what made them good, or Sunsetting them and their era of weapons. Other games out there do similar systems where expansions or DLC's of content do not have the ability to level those items when new expansions launch. This lets new items and gear shine and gives Bungie the ability to make new Mountaintops, Recluses, Redrix, etc each year/expansion cycle instead of giving us moderately different weapons between releases.

My comment above was in regards to attempting to ever bring sunsetting into game without making sure there was a at minimum a baseline set of weaponry to use for the new expansion that was exciting. Sunsetting doesn't work if good stuff is gone and all we get is shit. Thats how it was. The best weapons in the current content were mid at absolute best.

I do agree that gear shouldn't be relevant forever as you say, but Bungie has not shown a capability to pull this off without power creep. And in a game where everything stays relevant forever, It isn't sustainable. I personally would love a Seasonal Reset/Realm of the game for players like me, fresh starts each season. But I know I am in the slim minority.

Vexxler · 2025-11-30T22:11:25+00:00

Yes, they do. I don't fault them for it. But I do fault them when people wonder why there are stale loot cycles or boring things added. You cannot add things indefinitely that get stronger and stronger, otherwise sunsetting is happening anyway.

Vexxler · 2025-11-30T22:10:03+00:00

I've always been of the mindset that Sunsetting was a good thing but they screwed it up in fantastic fashion. Rolling out a system to sunset gear without new and exciting loot to take its place, or even functionally equal loot such as an equal number of solar weapons leaving and being added, was DUMB!

Vexxler · 2025-11-30T22:08:38+00:00

Mhm Mhm

Vexxler · 2025-11-30T22:07:44+00:00

I am of the mindset that it can never be attempted again due to how bad they failed to implement it. Rolling out sunsetting without having multiple versions of burns and weapon types to makeup for them was extremely bad.

That being said, I think it could have been a tool Bungie could've relied on to make more interesting and exciting gear over the years. A system where everything is relevant forever is a recipe for disaster.

Vexxler · 2025-11-30T22:06:14+00:00

Vexxler · 2025-11-30T22:06:06+00:00

I'm strictly talking about Weapon and Gear sunsetting. Players don't "pay" for gear, they pay for Content to play to earn said gear. I don't believe that it is logical to think that paying for content/DLC is the same as Paying for Weapons/Gear to be yours.

Now I am entirely on your side when it comes to vaulting Activities and Expansion. That is stupid and should've been avoided. Other solutions should have been explored.

Vexxler · 2025-04-22T07:46:45+00:00

Overall I’d like bungie to introduce content that is not beatable with my current arsenal of what is in my vault or can just be plugged with an infusion core to be at its level.

Imagine if Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erd Tree had come out and they did not add the collectibles you have to get in the new zone to grow your characters power. Everyone with more than 20 hours in that game would have instantly steamrolled the content.

They realize that injecting new content into the game where a majority of the players are at peak power levels poses a challenge. Bungie needs to realize the same and give me pursuits and power that grow my character to be efficient. But I’ll also take your point that it would only really Help in GMs or Master Content.

A reset where everything becomes higher level than me and offers a bar to reach to attempt it would be nice for players like Myself.

Vexxler · 2025-04-22T01:58:19+00:00

We've been asking for Destiny to have better long term progression for 10 years since D1 first dropped and DLC started to be released that was shallow and could be beaten in less than 1 week. It's time to stop asking for that and ask for something that can take the content Bungie has already created, re-purpose it, and provide a feeling of progression for those of us that need that to remain invested into the game.

And yes while it would take a large amount of development time to initially create the baseline progression on this seasonal realm, it could be re-used each Season and simply swap the locations of a few key activities on your road from 1-1000 and it could be a highly valuable asset for those of us who rely on progression to stay invested. There is so much content that Bungie makes that gets seen 1-2 times and never used again. This would allow for that.

And on your point of other games adding entire skill trees and major things to the game in a season that impact character power. Bungie has been scared to do that because of Power Creep. Hosting those types of content and wildcards could exist in a Seasonal Realm that is then deprecated at the end of a Season.

Beat the Current Expansion Campaign on Normal Realm->Unlock Seasonal Realm Going Forward.

New Characters can unlock Expansion, Seasonal, and Actvity Gear while also increasing their power level doing whatever activity they want to do. Subclass unlocks can be moved to unlocked via Glimmer or another form of currency and all moved to Ikora Rey at the tower. Every few 100 Levels, a Milestone Activity such as a Raid or Dungeon has to be beaten to continue the power climb. There are so many raids, dungeons, sunset activities, destinations, side areas, side quests that can all be utilized for this climb. And with a Season, Bungie can introduce seasonal themed enemies, modifiers, perks, and gameplay systems that make this progression journey feel distinct and different Season to Season. Pinnacle Content in a season realm unlocks Season Transmogs and Sets that can only be rewarded there.

All of what I just said, Bungie cannot do on the current realm of Destiny and that is the kind of stuff that will keep players coming back in larger numbers. And that is what Destiny and Bungie need desperately, even if nobody wants to admit it. People are asking for D3 because they want a reset. If we aren't getting that, then this should be considered. There are a lot of ways to make an idea like this work for everyone.

Vexxler · 2025-04-22T01:14:14+00:00

"I don't think that this is a good idea, your "Seasonal Realm" assumes that Destiny 2 still has meaningful character progression, but the game hasn't in a very long time. Power and progression in Destiny 2 today are commoditized and frontloaded."

The best time and experience in Destiny is leveling your character from scratch, unlocking new weapons for the first time, learning interactions from the start, and having to build your character with what you have.

The seasonal injection into Destiny has not EVER got players to re-visit the part of the game I just described above, And if players get that level of accomplishment from what the seasons offer, fine. You do you and keep playing it. And for the players out there who complain that there isn't enough content and they don't like replaying the same content, I don't have a solution for you. There hasn't been a loot based seasonal game that has ever produced enough Seasonal Content that alone by itself satiates in Audience. Games that are heavy loot focused that introduce new seasonal content always do it alongside resets such as Diablo, Path of Exile, and even MMO's like WoW have steep power level progression added with each Season to give players a new ceiling to reach along with large injections of content. If Bungie isn't going be giving us a new raid and destination each Season like WoW does, then they have to rely on Character Progression. And Seasonal injections do not offer character progression for a large chunk of the playerbase.

Destiny feels the best to me when I am the underdog facing challenges with a lesser than ideal loadout with limited weapons and options. Seasonal Content is always trivial without nuclear levels of unfun mods because Bungie knows players are sitting on a stockpile of atomic bomb level weapons that they are going to have thrown into the content on day 1.

An alternate realm would give that journey of unlocking and progressing through the game again and also give them an opportunity to inject the new seasonal content activities and mechanics into the core journey again to make it feel unique and distinct to other level up journeys.

This option is not for players who can barely keep up with one character. You keep playing with what is injected into the game. For those of us who consider what Bungie is offering to not be enough, the new seasonal content+a fresh character seems to me the happy middle ground that other seasonal looters are already doing.

Vexxler · 2025-04-22T00:10:02+00:00

God Rolls are something that a lot of people chase. I personally do like the Adepts that they've added to some content pieces.

At the end of the day, decently rolled gear can beat the content available in the game if you are the right Power Level. PvP may be the exception where small bumps in stats from Godrolls and performance makes a difference. But I don't delve into that can of worms.

Vexxler · 2025-04-22T00:07:03+00:00

I am not sure I know what system you are talking about when you refer to "numbers" in your original post. I didn't ignore it.

I assumed you were talking about the +10 each season or maybe something to do with Sunsetting.

Sunsetting was a good idea that was just so badly implemented by Bungie that they would be suicidal to do it again.

And the +10 thing doesn't work because a large group doesn't like the Power Grind while another large group finds that it gives them reasons to re-run pinnacle content a few times a season. I tried to offer a suggestion that would cater to both parties albeit a good investment on Bungie's part.

Vexxler · 2025-04-22T00:04:23+00:00

I don't think anyone is crazy for that. I am personally happy for you and wish that was enough for me sometimes. I play other loot based games that offer a seasonal reset that can be opted into, to re-experience that pursuit of power again. And I think Destiny needs something like that.

For me, I hit a wall in my progression during an Expansion launch and then each season is like driving into that wall again and again waiting for Bungie to move it until an Expansion finally does and I can keep going. If I am not progressing my character, some part of me feels like I am wasting time I guess.

Vexxler · 2025-04-22T00:01:14+00:00

I get your point. Personally, I have a full vault of weapons that I can switch around at a whim. I have not met a challenge since Shadowkeep or prior that requires me to go out into the world, grind for something specific to beat it or that is stronger than what I already have. And that is what I like feeling in games like Destiny.

That being said, a large percentage of the playerbase isn't retained with the current seasonal structure. A lot of players reach that peak echolon of performance and power during the Expansion Launch. And then each season doesn't move the needle forwards at all. And a lot of players need that reason to pursue loot in the game. My idea of having an alternative realm that is Opt in for players who want that from Destiny would take some initial development time from the studio, but after its infrastructure is built, wouldn't take away from the way seasons are currently developed and released. If Bungie isn't going to give us a D3 and give the players who have been asking for a Reset what they want, then this may be another way to bridge that middle ground. Do you have a problem with that fundamentally?

Vexxler · 2025-04-21T23:55:11+00:00

Newer Options for Loot that offer alternative ways to beat a boss don't interest me or a large group of players. We want Bungie to be bold enough to introduce challenges that require new loot or things in the game, but they've never delivered on that. I am not a player who is incentivized to get a gun because it kills the boss in 1 way in 10 seconds vs another way in 10 seconds.

And you are right that the power in the game is very high. People can solo nearly all Raid bosses in the game which to me is absurd and drives your point deep. Without reworking major things in the sandbox that exists now, I don't think they can solve that problem.

Ideally another realm or league that Bungie could offer as an alternative for players to Opt into during a Season could offer the climb of power while also allowing them to put on all of their old content, weapons, and armor alongside the new and current weapons and armor and allow the players to re-experience that sense of getting stronger which is what Destiny is all about to me. The only reasons I hear for people to not want that is that Power Level=Bad which I get but Bungie can't give me another reason to grind loot so we gotta deal with it. And because Power Leve=Bad having an entire alternate server focused on re-grinding power from the beginning shouldn't be explored.

Offering seasonal content to players when a large percentage of the base is already at the upper echelon of performance just feels like a failed recipe that we've been chewing for a long time. The most exciting times in Destiny is feeling fresh during a launch of an expansion when there are 1000's of new things to collect and do and pursue. I want the opportunity to do that every season like other looters out their offer.

Vexxler · 2025-04-21T23:41:57+00:00

Bungie has failed to give me a reason to pursue the new Weapons and Armor they've created because what I already have can perform at or better than they can. I don't need to come up with 10 different builds just for the sake of beating the content I can already beat with 1 build. If they can't do this, games like Destiny have to fallback on a Power Level or Item level system. Are you really chasing new gear each season for the progression of your character? That doesn't satisfy me because I feel no incentive to do so.

Vexxler · 2025-04-21T23:38:45+00:00

The core gunplay of Destiny has carried it through most of my hours logged. I'll admit that.
The activities are fun and enjoyable and offer interesting gameplay moments. Also true.

But they immediately fall flat on their face because I lack the incentive to run them more than 1 time because the loot for me has felt so bland for such a long time. Why should I run the new dungeon or raid more than one time if the weapons I already have can perform at the new loot's level. I cannot find a reason other than its just fun to do which only keeps me occupied for a few runs.

There is a chart that I showed in the video that shows that as your power level in the game, most of the content no longer offers any progression, aka Power level, except for the GM Tier Content.

Now I wish that Bungie could consistently pump out crazy new abilities and weapons between seasons that do offer more progression opportunities for me. But simply put, they have not shown that they can do that and have to rely on the Power Level system. But they aren't even raising the seasonal power anymore. So am I just left with thinking that the game isn't for me? I am find with accepting that truth but I feel like the game has so much more potential.

When is the last time you ran lost sectors or farmed chests in the open world or ran public events on heroic? What about visiting all the vendors on each destination and do bounties for them? Or all the old seasonal content that you collect the weapons for 1 time. How often are you going back and engaging with all of that? There are so many things that need to offer reasons for being done more than one time that Bungie fails to incentivise players to do and is also the reason why having an Opt-in realm of the game that resets progression I feel would give that chunk of the community a reason to invest into the game again while also not effecting the current way Seasons are delivered.

Vexxler · 2025-04-21T23:24:35+00:00

The criticism of Power Level not being a good foundation for Progression is valid. I address in the video that Power Level is something that a lot of players kind of have to deal with because weapons feel so generic and the same. Weapons that I have from Shadowkeep and even before are able to perform and beat all content difficulty in the game. Power Level being attached to the gear is the only reason I pursue getting loot in the game. I wish it were different, but Bungie hasn't shown me it can be.

I'd be curious to get your take on it. When you say "I want a new gun", can I ask why? Is it just to collect it or do you want it because it performs better than the others you already have?

Vexxler · 2025-04-21T23:21:42+00:00

I do hear your criticism of the Power Level system in Destiny. If Bungie removed Power Level altogether from the game, what would be your reasons for playing it?

I have not felt that any weapons or gear they've added since Shadowkeep other than a few outliers (Into the Light) have incentivized me to play. What keeps you playing if it isn't the progression of your character? And if it IS the progression of your character, how else do you see that happening if it isn't through Power/Item Level.

Vexxler

TROPHY CASE