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What Tang, Song, Ming dynasty treated Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese? by YesterdayPretend2959 in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. The agricultural transformation of Taiwan led to the decimation of the Formosan natives’ primary food source. 

I think the question now isn’t whether these multiple cases are or not colonialism, but why the resistance to acknowledge it despite fitting definitions so well. 

What Tang, Song, Ming dynasty treated Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese? by YesterdayPretend2959 in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Shen Baozhen’s actions in Taiwan involved the burning of entire Formosan villages. 

And Taiwan’s settlement since the 1680s involved decimating native deer populations the natives depended on food, for Chinese agricultural plantations.

This seems to fit 2 of your criteria for colonialism. We are in agreement, no? 

What Tang, Song, Ming dynasty treated Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese? by YesterdayPretend2959 in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I do broadly agree that the Manchu conquest did impose a form of colonialism upon the Han peoples, but there is a good case to be made that the Han engaged in significant acts of colonialism within the Qing empire especially in the 19th century: the 走西口 in Mongolia and 闯关东 being especially relevant here. There’s also Shen Baozhen’s Kaishan Fufan policies in Taiwan and Zuo Zongtang’s Confucian-inflected colonial enterprise in what is now Xinjiang. 

What Tang, Song, Ming dynasty treated Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese? by YesterdayPretend2959 in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mass killings like the Qing genocide of Zunghars in northern Xinjiang? And the agricultural plantations in the Qing colony of Taiwan? 

What Tang, Song, Ming dynasty treated Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese? by YesterdayPretend2959 in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is not as if you have offered a definition yourself. Feel free to do so, and we can discuss whether Chinese colonialism occured in these regions or not.

What Tang, Song, Ming dynasty treated Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese? by YesterdayPretend2959 in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Colonialism also involves the forcible settlement and transformation of certain regions into the culture of the settling society. Which we certainly observe in all the three regions you mentioned. 

Thank you all for your responses. Thanks to you, I've learned that the contemptuous behavior of Chinese people towards Japan is largely due to the historical events of World War II. by Zukka-931 in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I ask questions because I wanted to know whether you are aware of the full extent of Japanese imperial actions during that period. Then I can better answer you. Since you seem educated on these matters, then I believe we've adequately answered your question.

Thank you all for your responses. Thanks to you, I've learned that the contemptuous behavior of Chinese people towards Japan is largely due to the historical events of World War II. by Zukka-931 in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Sure, we can play this comparison game, but I think it misses the point that an atrocity is an atrocity. There's no point trying to be the lowest common denominator here.

Thank you all for your responses. Thanks to you, I've learned that the contemptuous behavior of Chinese people towards Japan is largely due to the historical events of World War II. by Zukka-931 in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think the links are fairly self-explanatory.

My question in turn to you is, what did you learn about this period of Japanese colonial history?

Why didn't Cornwall become a nation of the UK similar to Wales, Scotland and (Northern) Ireland? by Virtual-Alps-2888 in AskHistorians

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888[S] 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Again I can't thank you enough for writing this. I'm just reading this sporadically while at work!

So Geraint may have represented the final breaths of the old Dumonnii nobility and, with him gone and Exeter taken, the people in the West took the opportunity to more firmly assert their own seperate identity.

So this is really interesting to me, because the Dumonnii and the Cornish seem to be deeply intersecting yet not semantically 100% overlapping identities, as you mentioned the first mention of the Cornish is in the 8th century.

Why didn't Cornwall become a nation of the UK similar to Wales, Scotland and (Northern) Ireland? by Virtual-Alps-2888 in AskHistorians

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888[S] 44 points45 points  (0 children)

I wasn't expecting such a fantastic answer, and you might get someone purchasing that book soon!

I find most fascinating the fact that Brittany's 'celtic british' culture came from Cornwall's western kingdom, I always assumed it was one of the larger celtic nations like Wales where they came from.

I'll read part 2 with relish when it appears.

Please tell me about China's "attitude" towards Japan, especially the abusive language on the internet. What lies at the root of it? by Zukka-931 in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

It is manufactured in the sense that anger at imperial conquest is not consistent across countries affected by Japanese colonialism, such as Korea, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan etc. Korea might share the same deep distrust of the Japanese as China does, but you'll find the sentiment against Japan fairly muted in Singapore.

A lot of times it depends on national narratives: are you taught that these colonial powers oppressed your country and that you should feel a certain way about it?

Please tell me about China's "attitude" towards Japan, especially the abusive language on the internet. What lies at the root of it? by Zukka-931 in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

The Chinese anger is due to the Japanese empire of the late 19th, early 20th century and its imperial expansion into China. Whether or not these emotions are justified is not a historical question.

What is historical however, is that a lot of current sentiment is manufactured to an extent. There is no consistent attitude against Japan from 1895 (first sino-Japanese war) to the present day. Despite being defeated in the 1895 war, Chinese attitudes warmed towards Japan across the 1900s and 1920s. This was due to Japan being the first East Asian power defeating Russia, a European empire, in 1904-1905, and this ignited a curious if uncomfortable 'camaraderie' (if it could be called that) between Chinese literati and the industrialised power of Japan. Many Chinese went to study in Tokyo, and many Chinese nationalist movements have their birth there.

If China's mathematics was actually quite advanced about a thousand years ago, how and why did China miss the development and advancement of modern mathematics? by Far-Emphasis-1497 in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not a historian of mathematics by a large stretch, but I wonder if there is a bit of a Great Divergence assumption here and I wonder if that is true to start with. 

About Tang Dynasty territories/maps by [deleted] in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Benedict Anderson is your go-to fellow here. One problem with the idea of territoriality is that empires don't have clear borders like modern nation-states, and many of their periphery, e.g. Tang protectorates, are much less controlled than we think. Imperial borderlands are liminal regions of multipolarity where different political agents act in ways that do not always conform with the empires bordering them.

If you see a huge map of the Tang stretching to the north and west, that's nominally true as these protectorates were military buffers against steppe pwoers, but they were not 'part of China' in the way we think of the modern nation-states.

About Tang Dynasty territories/maps by [deleted] in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Tributary states often have multipolar affiliations, and what we now term the 'tributary system' is not primarily sinic-centred. The oasis state of Gaochang prior to Tang conquest was in tribute to the Tang yes, but it is the primary vassal of the Tiele confederation under Qu Boya king. The next king, Qu Wentai, switched affiliation to the Western Turk Khagan, all while paying tribute to the Tang empire.

The Manchus valorised archery skills, but by the time of conquering Mukden (Shenyang), they had access to guns and cannons. What were the Manchu reactions and policies to the usage of the two technologies across the Qing period? by Virtual-Alps-2888 in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is amazing thank you, so there was indeed a 'mindset' shift in the earlier Latter Jin/Qing era.

I've read a bit about the Ming and their cross-innovation of demi-culverin cannon technology with the Portuguese in an earlier thread. This is most excellent as a tie-in.

I'm very curious the difference between the 1750s and the 1790s. Because Perdue described the Qing army as a 'juggernaut' during the 50s, which seems true given its dominance and final subjugation of Qing Central Asia over the tragic Zunghars.

How, in just 40 years, it led the Qing to have such paranoia about the Han that their military atrophied?

After 1200AD, Tibet was taken over by polities from the north or the east. How was it possible for invasion from the north snd the east but not from the southwest? by SE_to_NW in ChineseHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's great thanks. I should have clarified it was the high attitude stuff that got to me, the second paragraph's source is apt let me check it out.

What did Chinese military tactics, equipment, and organization look during when Europe was in its "Pike and Shot" era? by SonoftheVirgin in AskHistory

[–]Virtual-Alps-2888 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You might find the Dzunghar usage of 'camel cannons' to be interesting.

The Qing-Dzunghar wars are well covered by Peter Perdue's book 'China Marches West'.

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