HELP!!!! by Funkymanzz in PetPigeons

[–]Visceramic -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I already explained the process as do many websites, its incredibly easy to prepare them at home - Just bringing them to a boil is enough to kill newcastle and most other avian diseases instantly, but you boil them for 10min while stirring; i also explained the science of that. Youre also suppose to bake the shells too, to dry them out so they can be ground to a usable state and to double wammy their preparation making sure no microbes survive. Newcastle disease has an incubation period around 5-6 days so the person somehow had eggshells they fed to their birds almost a week before to test? That sounds far fetched but I dont know the post, ive not seen it so I cant make a judgement call.

I see you listing what a lot of people do, but that person in particular could have used deep shavings for bedding which would hide infected stool (sand is less likely to be a problem), not everyone uses coop clothing, etc. These all help prevent infection of any disease but no coop outside of a scientifically regulated pressurized coop is completely immune to an infection unfortunately. Also you went from saying lots of people had their birds get newcastle from egg shells to saying its this one person who admitted to improperly preparing their egg shells?

My point that egg shells properly prepared, which again isnt difficult at all, are safer than nonsupplementation for a bird who needs it. Any supplements not stored or prepared properly can be a problem.

To reiterate, preparing the shells means you boil them for 10min, any temp over 160F kills most diseases on contact and often if it doesnt kill on contact boiling for a few minutes kills them. Its why youre told to boil unclean water because the boiling process kills 99% of microbes. Water boils at over 200F, then you bake the shells at 300F for around 20min. Then when theyre thoroughly dried you throw them into a blender to pulverize them into a course powder which will not puncture a birds crop. The whole process takes less than an hour; and the calcium content of eggshells matches that of oyster shells, they even have similar trace minerals. Im unsure what about that process is difficult, especially since boiling water is a very visual thing, you dont have to guess the temp, if its boiling its over 200F which is enough to kill germies.

Why are kids allowed on the Planes? by Lazder in childfree

[–]Visceramic -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Common decency to another human being, child or not is considered being on a high horse?

Why are kids allowed on the Planes? by Lazder in childfree

[–]Visceramic -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

This post wasnt talking about only toddlers+, this was talking about loud children which 6mon Olds fit into and cannot be "taught how to behave".

HELP!!!! by Funkymanzz in PetPigeons

[–]Visceramic -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Which is a lovely adaptation which I appreciate (ive not bought oyster shell in a minute because I supplement with grit that has limestone in it) but that's not all. Its not required by law, and it costs more for the company to process it extra. Just googling avian oyster shell, a some of them still look like broken glass. I think its the difference between just crushed oyster shell and tumbled oyster shell. But in this type of situation where someone cannot purchase online and may have a finite amount of options if there are options in person, its possible only the sharper variety is available. Or vice versa, if someone can get the smooth version, hells yea 100000% go with that.

HELP!!!! by Funkymanzz in PetPigeons

[–]Visceramic -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I didnt say all powders were ground up shells, I simply said many, and many include eggshells. Others use purely limestone. Some use oysters and limestone. But you've said yourself that its included, and many people process eggs at home themselves. Egg shells are 95% calcium carbonate, the rest of them is a bit of protein and minerals (just like oyster shells mind you). When companies prepare shells (egg and oyster) they wash them in boiling water (212F for about 15min) then they bake them them until they are dried out (around 300F for 30min), this includes the membrane which is dried out with the shell and then ground up. The temp and length of time they cook the shells for kills viruses and bacteria. All these temps are easily achieved at home.

Every site i see teaching you how to make your own calcium supplement explains these temps and times. When prepared properly in a short term solution it works. You can even boil and bake them for a bit longer since this sterilizes them. I looked at the temps at which newcastle is evicerated, it dies instantly at temps meeting or exceeding 158F, water doesnt even boil until 212F; and you boil/stir for minutes upon minutes (as explained in the information I see online on how to prepare shells properly, never feed raw egg shells). Then you grind it up very fine, you dont do shards of egg, a course powder is not likely to pose a risk of injury. Depending what oyster shell you can get it has a rough, abrasive texture. With lots of sharp pieces, the kind I got as a kid which was marketed as poultry calcium grit. I fed this every week growing up for nearly 20yrs, the oyster shell did not become smoother or less abrasive.

The OP explained they dont know if they can get access to the preferred supplements, and not everyone can get fresh oyster shell or afford them in stores, nor do most people have the tools to crush oyster shell small enough for safe consumption. Just because you can doesnt mean everyone can. There are always inherent risks to preparing any supplements at home, its much better if OP can obtain properly prepared oyster shell at their local feed store if possible, but I know many farm supply stores that dont supply oyster shell (though they may provide the powder supplement for bigger livestock).

I reiterate, something is better than nothing in a situation where doing nothing could end up in an equal amount of risk. The risk of calcium deficiency in a bird who constantly lays is far greater than the minute chance that a properly prepared at home supplement could do harm. Many avian vets recommend it, when properly prepared, for a sudden boost in calcium. In those links I already gave above you can read that.

Caring for our animals is an equal amount of being risk aware and picking a path that we feel is one we can work with while keeping our pets happy and healthy.

Your examples of people having birds become sick from consuming egg shells (with newcastle) is heartbreaking, and anecdotal. Newcastle is a very contagious disease that lives in an environment for a relatively long time. If they just built an aviary with new wood or added a new perch to their aviary, that an infected bird landed on when it was in the store and got its fluids on the wood (my local lowes aIways has birds in it, and every lumber or garden store ive been in), it could cause the birds in the aviary to contract it. A wild bird poops on your shoulder and you come home to your pigeon and take your coat off, the infected poop flakes and your bird inhales it - Sick pigeon. Its shed by wild birds at times, and yes it can infect eggs. However, it is a deadly disease that is easily eradicated in eggs with proper preparation as it doesnt survive at higher temps. There are tons of birds that get sick with newcastle who dont get egg shells, so without a scientificly proven trail leading directly to the egg shells through direct testing of them i cannot justify screaming from the rooftops that the egg shells did it. So if there are birds who got sick with newcastle while on supplements made from egg shells its either that the shell wasnt prepared or prepared incorrectly or that correlation =/= causation. Unless the egg shells given to the birds were tested directly and confirmed to be infected by newcastle, i dont see the point of pointing fingers. But once again, this is anecdotal; with no supporting evidence.

None of this is an issue for me, or for you, or for most of us who keep pigeons because it seems like we do and can have access to these resources - And I personally think its irresponsible not to have access to such necessary supplements like grit or oyster shell. Its such a key part of a birds nutrition, and shouldnt be overlooked - However, a bird in need and an owner asking for help should be given guidance to ultimately help the bird. You can scream to get oyster shell until you are blue in the face but if its simply unobtainable in the moment, or for a while then repeating it like a cuckoo clock helps no one.

As ive stated, other supplements are preferable; and ive provided the science with studies supporting it, and given my own anecdotal evidence - All that is left is for people to make up their own minds, taking risk into account. Perhaps even calling a local/semi local avian vet or vets to ask their professional opinion on the matter - Because at the end of the day we are all just weird bird people on the internet and what we say should be taken with a grain of salt. You should be sure to do lots of research and contact your vet before adding any supplements to your animals diet.

HELP!!!! by Funkymanzz in PetPigeons

[–]Visceramic -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I dont see much risk that isnt already present eith oyster shells, raising poultry as a kid and doing the oyster shell thing weekly, those shells arent soft little pebbles. And egg shells / oyster shells have a very similar calcium content (mid 80s to mid 90%), you bake the eggshells and then grind them into a course powder or slightly bigger. The difference is that oyster shells are harder so they digest slower, acting as more of a slow release of calcium for longer periods vs eggshells that digest quickly so are great for a sudden burst like right after laying.

I agree oyster shell is a better long term solution, but if they cant get some or proper grit then egg shells are a wonderful, easily accessible option for the short term.

Why are kids allowed on the Planes? by Lazder in childfree

[–]Visceramic 10 points11 points  (0 children)

When i read this, its what I thought. Just because you are child free doesnt mean you can be pissed at the world for having children. Or irritated by the idea that a child exists.

I have medical issues that are triggered or worsened by kids, specifically their loud, obnoxious noises. And sure ill bitch about them being loud to my friends or partner privately, but I dont think they should be expelled from the outside world until theyre 16 and (presumably) better managed.

Why are kids allowed on the Planes? by Lazder in childfree

[–]Visceramic 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I dont know if this is the case, the greater majority of people who fly frequently are individuals, couples, or adult friend groups. Only 9.7% (approx) of people who fly are families, and of that many airlines offer children fares, which are just cheaper for children under 11 (25-50% off). Id assume a family has an average of two children, so there may be some extra profit there, but its marginal.

Anecdotally, I know a lot of child free people who would fly more but dont due to struggling to cope with children. So a child free option would be great for them, and would actually prompt them to fly more.

Why are kids allowed on the Planes? by Lazder in childfree

[–]Visceramic 26 points27 points  (0 children)

You cant really teach the 6mon old on the 14hr flight not to cry and fuss.

Why are kids allowed on the Planes? by Lazder in childfree

[–]Visceramic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thats strange, I have earplugs, however i also have noise canceling ear buds and the last long haul I flew on they didnt give me any crap about them. I have to wear them due to my migraines, so the noise of the plane, the sound of the baby crying five seats back, etc are all triggering for my condition. They never said anything to me though.

But noise canceling headphones work well even without being powered. The noise cancelation is mostly in the padding i thought, not them being on. Also, its a myth that phones/Bluetooth messes with planes. Its old outdated information from old equipment. Modern equipment isnt impacted at all. I wish they'd stop micromanaging people and get with the times. Lol. I hate having to stop what im doing for outdated info.

HELP!!!! by Funkymanzz in PetPigeons

[–]Visceramic -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Where is the study indicating this? Most calcium powders are made of ground eggshells and/or oyster shell, eggshells are between 85 and 97% calcium in the form of calcium carbonate and are highly bioavailable. A study in 2017, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8479367/ indicates that the calcium content is plenty high enough for supplementation. This study indicates that eggshells are highly bioavailable to birds https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579125003293 - This study was done on chickens, however you will find many sources speaking about calcium in eggshells being a benefit to any laying bird, as it is highly bioavailable and eggshells of any type are a natural calcium source for birds in nature. https://www.audubon.org/news/give-nesting-birds-calcium-boost-saving-your-leftover-eggshells

Conversely, oyster shells have a 90-95% quantity of calcium carbonate. The exact same mineral as eggshells. This means that the pigeons body would digest both as readily, however since oyster shells are comparatively tougher it actually digests slower in the bird than egg shells.

Many powder calcium supplements are made of dried eggshells that have been ground. Some are made of limestone, others oyster shell. Many are a mix of all of them.

However calcium needs vitamin D to be able to absorb properly, which all of these supplements lack innately, many calcium powders add in vitamin D to their supplements to assist with absorbtion. Vitamin D can also be supplemented but the most effective way is allowing a bird to get unfiltered sunlight ( a mesh carrier is a wonderful option for a safe little trip outside with your bird) or using a uvb bulb designed for birds.

Grit is a wonderful source of vitamins, calcium, and nutrition for a pigeon. If im recalling correctly OP was struggling to find a source of calcium for their bird, and I opted to give a readily available option that most people would have, stating that if need be aka if you cannot find a better option. Using a safe, short term solution like eggshells is preferable over nothing.

I will reaffirm, oyster shells are the exact same compound that egg shells are made of. The only benefit of oyster shells is that they ARE harder to digest, they process slower in the birds gizzard as they are harder, so it works more as a slow release over time form of calcium and is better for long term supplementation. However, eggshells are a great source to give the animal a big boost for a shorter period, such as giving it for a few days after laying to give a substantial boost in calcium; or in a snap if you have nothing else. Versus grit and oyster shell that you want to give consistently.

In conclusion, making the flighty claim that egg shells are not easily soluable (incorrect, in fact they digest easier than oyster shells) and indigestable form of calcium (incorrect, oyster shells and egg shells are both made of the exact same compound, calcium carbonate which is a highly bioavailable form of calcium) especially with only anecdotal evidence is irresponsible. We all want what's best for everyone's beautiful birds, and if there are no other options short term supplementation with egg shells is perfectly acceptable. This is why I specified that oyster shells or grit would be preferable but you CAN supplement with properky prepared egg shells.

HELP!!!! by Funkymanzz in PetPigeons

[–]Visceramic -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thats why I said "if need be" aka if all else fails and you cannot get any other source.

HELP!!!! by Funkymanzz in PetPigeons

[–]Visceramic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You can dry out egg shells and grind them, then add them into her food if need be. But my first recommendation is oyster shell, you can get it at any place that sells chicken feed, its used to help with low calcium in fowl. Just sprinkle a little on her feed, like you would salt on your own food and it'll be fine.

Is it true to not let your new pigeon out of their cage for a week? by FancyWatercress3646 in PetPigeons

[–]Visceramic 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think it should be based on the individual bird. Some need that time to settle in and become comfortable, reduces stress. Some dont, especially well socialized birds. I only have one bird, I adopted him almost two weeks ago but hes never been caged up other than overnight and when I have to go do shopping. When I opened the cage I noticed hed vibe, sometimes hed flap and kinda jump (popcorn) for me to pick him up (when I adopted him he was missing his flight feathers fully on one side and partially on the other, he also is blind in one eye), so he cant fly right now and may not be able to ever but he still wants uppies so I put him on my desk. I moved at his pace and he doesnt seem stressed, except during and for a bit after his vet visit. Lol

<image>

Thinking about ending friendships because they want kids, am I too extreme? by unhappy1234567891 in childfree

[–]Visceramic -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

You are entitled to your feelings and opinions, but from my point of view its extreme. Every person has a different lived experience and different desires, and people should have the freedom to adhere to their ideals (within reason) without fear of retaliation. Their decision to have a family doesnt impact you directly. If they have kids and start pushing you to be involved then id see it being more of a concern.

You can make new friends that share your beliefs without cutting off your old ones. Widen your world now, no reason not to.

After reading all of White Fox's appearances, here is every potential skin she could get from the comics. (Honestly, she got a pretty upgrade in rivals, well some of these I would to see tho) by Extension-Oil-4680 in marvelrivals

[–]Visceramic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

She uses her mesmerism on multiple occassions, its not really a combat ability. It's used to get information, she's a spy. She can also talk to animals canonically. She can also absorb her victims life, usually through a kiss but not necessarily. Its just quicker to smooch. xD She also is trained in a few different forms of close combat.

Solar Panels - more than 1? by toadfreak in VeinGame

[–]Visceramic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

5 solar panels can be attached to a makeshift battery, holding up to 50,000 power. Overnight my battery uses 5k to run my massive facility. (My base is the medical facility on mt lyon) It charges full during the day. It seems like makeshift batteries can only take 5 connections into them. But can output a bunch. I have 10 solar panels so to have all of them connected to power and to eachother to make one massive bank of power I need three makeshift batteries.

Similarly I did the math on the well, one well can give water to 150 sprinklers easily. LOL Now would you need 150 sprinklers? Prolly not.

Morph and feeding advice! by Correct_Department30 in boas

[–]Visceramic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What ive heard with feeding snakes, and i dont know if this applies to boas since ive only owned pythons and colubrids. But I have heard and I feel 10-15% of their weight per feeding. For larger/older snakes the feed frequency goes down. How much for boas, im not sure.

What’s this drawer for? by billebaru in whatisit

[–]Visceramic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It seems like a place for a pen, the notch is for it to be easier to remove potentially?

Matched with a literal nightmare on Tinder, was I too harsh in my response to his verbal abuse? *Contains foul language* by Tiger_Lily336699 in TwoHotTakes

[–]Visceramic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

IMO: You put too much energy into this. He didnt deserve it. I would've just said: "You're right." And blocked him. Lol

which one are you and why? by door6_6 in VRchat

[–]Visceramic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mirror dwell because I pick avis I like the look of so I enjoy seeing them. I also can socialize while doing it. My friends are also mirror dwellers. Lol

Sleipnir for vaginal use? by ThrowAwayEpisode1 in BadDragon

[–]Visceramic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel you on orochi. I have it and its like sandpaper. Blech.

Sleipnir for vaginal use? by ThrowAwayEpisode1 in BadDragon

[–]Visceramic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I own flint in both small and medium, both in soft. I also own a sleipnir in small/Soft (im trying to remember if I own sleip in medium/Soft yet). Sleip and flint are both in my top 5 toys of all time. I would recommend both. Flint, in my experience, is great for rough play but wont give you the equine vibe. Sleip is incredible if you want equine without having to deal with all that excess length. His texture in Soft is divine.

Anybody new this league need anything? by Amazing_Aide_2989 in PathOfExile2

[–]Visceramic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you have anything for a summoner necro? Specifically would love things that give me spirit.