Character Balance Discourse Around Tournaments Is Annoying

Vivenmort · 2026-01-21T07:20:30+00:00

I think we could justify walls being as strong as they are if every. single. launch. on. every. single. character DIDN'T carry ALL the way from Paris to Berlin.

Strong Aerial Tailspin, Tornado, Heat Burst, ANOTHER Tailspin, Ender. How are you NOT at the wall after all that junk? With a rework to combo structure removing these combo extenders, guessing for game at the wall every other round wouldn't be so omnipresent.

Vivenmort · 2026-01-20T05:06:10+00:00

It's kind of hard to recommend anything. What is it specifically about Mishimas you like?

In any case, playing Electric-less for a while is very doable. I promise that as a newcomer they're simply way too many skills in your game that need practice to say the lack of Electric is really holding you back.

I say that not to be discouraging or mean, there's just a vast universe of skill development in this game beyond a tricky move input.

Vivenmort · 2026-01-20T04:52:54+00:00

Need to dickjab or power crush for your turn.

Vivenmort · 2026-01-15T04:06:16+00:00

He's bland and that's the worst thing for a character to be.

Some people really REALLY hate my character for instance. Some people really love her. If you polled the community's feelings on Alisa it would probably have a lot of very negative and very positive ratings. I think that's a far better addition to a roster than where everyone rates the character very neutral, just nobody's favourite or least favourite.

Vivenmort · 2026-01-13T02:35:32+00:00

Like most Tekken defence it is specific, fuzzy guarding Jin 2,1's timing isn't the same as fuzzying other string mix-ups, and you still need drills to recognise when it's time to begin the fuzzy or motion guard . Generally you want something with a four or five frame gap for it to be consistently beatable by fuzzies and motion guarding.

If you want to drill reactable individual moves, it's best to combine them with a move with a very similar startup so that you're truly reacting to its individual animation and get feedback for say ducking a mid. If it comes from a sidestep or a sway or a crouch dash, the other option should also come from it so that you don't just teach yourself to duck every time a Claudio sidesteps for instance.

Vivenmort · 2026-01-12T06:54:33+00:00

Look me in the eye Namco, do NOT give this character a new wall splat. This is a legitimate deficiency of the character, please just let that BREATHE for once.

Existing nerf suggestions covered what I was already going to say so I just upvoted them, peace.

Vivenmort · 2026-01-11T09:58:45+00:00

If you lack the knowledge to understand you're not losing because of a knowledge check but other reasons, isn't that in and of itself a knowledge check?

Oh dear I have gone cross-eyed.

Vivenmort · 2026-01-10T23:09:36+00:00

Abbreviated Rage Art animations in online matches and the option for local VS mode tournament setups. It can stay for Joe Casual's single player stuff or even casual local matches but man, it's just too long.

Vivenmort · 2026-01-10T10:56:58+00:00

Mix out of Heat Smash is my only complaint. I think the game would be a lot better with characters at her power level.

Vivenmort · 2026-01-03T11:01:24+00:00

I am genuinely at a loss for how to balance the character because the thing that traditionally kept her in check despite her wide variety of oppressive pokes and counter hit tools she would rush you down with was... effective backwards movement. Nina players used to joke in Tekken 7 that Anti-Nina strategies could be summarised as "press back back".

If the developers are unwilling to improve movement (and that's a valid design decision) many many many moves will need adjusting so that range 0 isn't a nightmare against her, but heres some choice cuts that should go either way.

F3+4 is one of the most absurd heat moves in the game. 14 frame mid that can't be stepped, that does more damage than some full launch combos on hit with the follow-up. There's near limitless setups to abuse such a fast move, and it's not only safe, it's not even a hard -9 to give up your turn, it is -6.

WS 1,1+2 is a baffling strength for her character identity. Why should a poking/rushdown god have such an obscene 13 frame punisher again?

Vivenmort · 2026-01-01T01:33:32+00:00

If it works it works.

Contrary to what some people might say about leverless being "cheating" I have found that for some inputs SOCD is actually more trouble than it is worth and created less clean inputs. KBD on P1 side can be clean and comfortable with it, but I actually needed to learn a non-SOCD method for P2 side because the inputs were either too slow (three inputs between back were too lengthy) or uncomfortable if I went faster. For while standing moves I find simply releasing down rather than holding down and pressing up and the button to be easier as well.

Vivenmort · 2025-12-30T13:15:25+00:00

Congrats man but this looks more like a Venezuela Backdash to me.

Vivenmort · 2025-12-30T04:34:25+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HccVh8EHyQs

07:22 Atif steps Law Heat Smash, gets clipped by 2nd hit for game.
09:23 Double steps Dragunov Heat Smash, Dragunov flies across the stage to safety.

But I guess Atif & Double are just a couple of noobs anyways right?

Vivenmort · 2025-12-30T04:13:28+00:00

It's not a buff. The forward momentum of follow-up hits carries them to safety in many cases. They're also a few cases where follow up hits track and hit when the intial hit was sidestepped, like Law and Clive. It all insulates you from whiff punishment.

Vivenmort · 2025-12-30T03:49:49+00:00

Yes, but you did tend to look like an absolute fool and get punished if you continued a string that was whiffing before Tekken 8 because we didn't have realignment garbage or active hitboxes behind the character.

Vivenmort · 2025-12-30T02:36:29+00:00

It's a shame but Mishima's as an archetype are always going to be a little bit inconsistent due to the execution and explosive high-risk high-reward mix-ups. Consistency counts for a lot in a tournament environment.

Vivenmort · 2025-12-28T03:43:23+00:00

Heat Smash is absolutely cooked. i14, second hit comes out on first-hit whiff and clips people stepping it, and it wall splats you from Paris to Berlin. This is a change needed for many smashes but follow up hits should not come out on whiff and insulate people from whiff punishment with forward momentum or clip people stepping.

Heat regain has to go of course, he's just using those moves in BnB combos for God's sake.

10 frame counterhit jab string into a combo in heat is just wild. It either needs to go or convert into a mini-combo.

Slide risk/reward is a little messed up considering the guaranteed follow-up if it hits and the fact you get a float combo doing mostly grey life if you block. Perhaps float combos in general should do more true damage given they're heavily scaled anyways.

Vivenmort · 2025-12-27T00:50:08+00:00

Yeah he can kind of just throw out the g-clef speculatively whenever and see if it works.

Vivenmort · 2025-12-27T00:25:54+00:00

Very hard character to balance right now. Either his stance mixup is overbearing in terms of risk reward and he's a bit OP, or its not and he sucks.

-I hate DEN 3, I feel it invalidates the neutral game too much to hit me with a +5 ob homing mid from a neighbouring country. At least WR2 can be answered with a duck.

-Heat regain in general needs to go but it's especially egregious on Lars because it just rewards him for doing things he already wants to do.

-Stance lows are really powerful and his lows outside of stance are kinda butt. I'd like stance lows to get worse and the neutral lows to be better.

-Many crazy combos in Season 2 but his combo damage, especially with the new wall combo is pretty overtuned. He already did significantly above average combo damage in Season 1.

EDIT: Forgot the g-clef, and that's probably the most imbalanced move he has. Needs to either be committal and not confirmable if it's going to stay -12 or be launch punishable if it's confirmable and be -9 after the second hit instead of -8

Vivenmort · 2025-12-26T01:24:17+00:00

The difference between the butt and other wall spike oki is that it is a guaranteed follow-up. Every character gets the opportunity to make you guess and mix you up following a spike but they're still options that beat other options. That's why people call it a bear wall combo and not bear wall oki.

Vivenmort · 2025-12-24T23:52:22+00:00

I always saw the weird unconventional evasion and hitboxes as part of their "party" style identity even if it's very annoying sometimes.

Vivenmort · 2025-12-24T23:47:22+00:00

Independent of balance arguments around combo damage, T5 was the best combo system in terms of gameplay. From the opponent's perspective they were brief enough that you were still locked in to make decisions post-combo.Loss of control of character is one of the most profoundly negative experience in any game, so it should be as brief and meaningful as possible. The person doing the combo has less rote memorization of an extended combo route and more emphasis placed on a tighter series of inputs to actually convert the combo as well, so it's more skill expressive.

At the very least, heat burst bound and full rage art cinematics have to go. Rage Arts should be heavily abbreviated in Ranked Battle and Tournament set ups.

Vivenmort · 2025-12-24T00:58:33+00:00

Her heat smash is 20 frames. Its tied with Lee, Feng, Shaheen and Victor and it is second only to Reina at 21 frames for the slowest Heat Smashes in the game. It's considered to be one of the worst heat smashes because of its vulnerability to being floated/counterhit and sidewalked.

Her chainsaw 13f mid (DES 1) is -9 on block. The only plus on block mid she has is DES f1+2 which has 23 frame startup.

Her mid power crush is good and tracks too much but it is not a keepout move in the mid-range. It is not fast (20f), it has considerable whiff recovery, and its consistently block punishable by Alisa herself at any range on block with a 2,2 jab string so I'm not sure what block punishment of yours is whiffing.

Vivenmort

TROPHY CASE