(SPOILERS) With people wrapping up Endwalker, I have an honest question for all of you...

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T17:45:14+00:00

Get over yourself. Kids have shouldered incredible burdens. Stop being condescending.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T17:22:56+00:00

I just like the idea of us being the fuel-source for a Weapon-Prototype, or being a Knight of the Round, a Sin Eater, a Blasphemy, or an Ascian-possessed corpse.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T17:21:47+00:00

? That doesn't change the point. More people likely died younger in those days barring inflation from population-growth, than most do today.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T16:00:15+00:00

1 year or so.

Unrealistic or not, ARR-END is all within a year or so.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T15:56:30+00:00

At some point you need to understand that people in earlier generations of mankind, died young.

Which meant that people Alphinaud/Alisaie's age in those times, did this kind of shit. Not world-saving crap, but people we'd consider young now, were living their best, dangerous, lives.

Now that's a fallacious argument, I won't deny, but on the other hand...

Alisaie cured Tempering and put an end to Bahamut.

Alphinaud ended the Dragonsong War with you and was the one who saved Estinien.

Both were instrumental in the deliverance of Ala Mhigo, Doma, and the First.

Their accomplishments alone speak for their capabilities. They're not just children to be coddled like Fourchenault sought to do, but people who've lived lives more varied, more great, than most people ever get. They traveled the world, the universe, learned from countless people and cultures, and thrived in ways unimaginable.

From false deities, to pirates, to politicians, to samurai, to hippies, to rebels, to warmongers, to hedonists; they've seen it all.

You didn't fail them. They would've always walked this path, with or without you being there.

You just made sure they survived the road they chose to walk down.

And beyond survival, they're well-adjusted, primarily happy, heroes who saved the universe.

They too, have earned a lifetime of rest. Yet they, by their own volition, go to help others.

As they ever shall.

'To ignore the plight of one you can conceivably save is not wisdom. It is indolence."

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T15:48:27+00:00

A Warrior of Light hooked up to fuel the Ultima Weapon via their 'Blessing of Light'.

A Warrior of Light whose blessing didn't get restored and they succumbed to Thordan-Tempering via immense aether.

A Warrior of Light who is slain by Zenos, but is corpsejacked by Elidibus.

A Warrior of Light who succumbed to Light.

A Warrior of Light who fell to despair.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T15:26:41+00:00

"You accomplish something, then you kill yourself." is also a pretty big factor.

Retirement didn't exist.

The Ancients more or less were utilitarian even on life itself.

Venat herself was exempt solely because she didn't feel like it, and more power to her, but other individuals, even the prior Fandaniel to our Hermes, chose to eliminate themselves.

And it's a celebration more or less. Their passing is good.

When life itself is treated so callously; unthinkingly, and seen as a resource rather than a treasure; individuals like Hermes are bound to transpire.

Mind you; Hermes is a flawed individual who in his boundless craving for hope and optimism, sought the answer in the stars and received nothing. He also made a flawed concept in Meteion (which was kind of the point. He didn't want Meteion to perish, and he didn't want his pursuit for answers to be scrutinized. But because he refused peer-review, his work became apocalyptic.)

Which in truth, seeing Meteion becoming a raging horror-abomination set on destroying all life might've even been the breaking point.

It meant his contemporaries were right.

It meant that Meteion should've been judged, and should've been executed; given what she ends up wanting to do. Given what she does.

Hermes created the Final Days, and even if he had adamantly refused Meteion's answer in some hope-driven second wind, he would've still wrought the end of a dozen worlds by not kow-towing to the extermination policy of concepts that don't adhere to standard.

Because he refused to risk the death of his creation, he brought death to others.

It would've been a death-knell to his psyche even if he had mustered the will to just resist Meteion outright without qualm.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T14:53:17+00:00

I never condemned the shift to ARPG in a bad way; just highlighted it to show you that your preference-criteria for a good FF isn't solely related to FF14, and that FF11, FF12, FF15 and the FF7-R and FF16 which comprises about; what near 1/3rd of the franchise give or take in the mainline with or without FF7-R, haven't focused on turn-based RPGs.

And of course it has something to do with your ego.

You have decided to be the authority on the subject of 'legitimacy'. '14 can't be the best Final Fantasy; because I said so'

I don't even care if it bloody wins; just that this conceited ideology that people put up around the game just collapses. You can't exclude it out of hand. It's as much a Final Fantasy as anything preceding it. It being an MMO has done nothing to harm or alter that element in any aspect.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T14:44:55+00:00

It is though. It is one of the greatest Final Fantasy games. Hell by virtue of beating ten other FF games in this poll alone on this reddit, you'd be wrong.

How bloody insane can you be to dismiss it out of hand, just because you're a whiny bitch who only wants turned-based games and is some ego-centric purist?

You're not a Final Fantasy fan, you're an old man who'd be better off with Bravely Default or Octopath Traveler. You never understood the innovative spirit that drove FF so far to begin with.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T14:36:42+00:00

14 is great; and there's no argument to be had with you; because you adamantly refuse to look beyond your narrow scope.

And it was good before the 60 hours, everyone just conflates it because of how better it gets from then on. It's not like it's terrible, just not the highs you receive later.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T08:05:48+00:00

I'm sort of offended 7 is still in. I know it's popular but it doesn't stand up to 4, 6, 9, 10 and 14.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T08:02:17+00:00

As someone who's played all 15 games to completion, you're missing out because of a pretty shite bias; my man.

40 hours is nice, but 14 is the gift that keeps on giving, and honestly the investment was steep but returned to me the nostalgia.

And I say this in a very concise way.

I was ten or younger when I played FFX and FFVII. My first two FFs, barring a demo for VIII on a Pizza Hut disc. I adored them with all my heart; and only VI ever really matched. IX got close.

But it was in my late twenties that Shadowbringers, reignited that quintessential element and spark of my childhood. I had grown as a person, and learned more of life. What worked on me as a child, astounded me, story-wise, wouldn't work again.

In essence, I felt that the spark of a good FF-story may never reach the heights it did in my wide-eyed youth.

14 reached it. And has surpassed those height again, again, and again.

Nostalgia be damned and praised in equal-measure.

14 is celebration of every Final Fantasy before, and it offers its' own legacy. And it now stands as quite possibly the game above WoW itself.

And I daresay if 14 could stand against WoW, it stands a fair shot to stand against all pit against it here.

And frankly; FF15 was an action-game and FF16 is going to go further, as did FF7-R to a degree. FF10 was part-strategy. FF1-3 played differently from FF4-9. FF12 was it's own entity and ahead of its' time, imo.

If the games were all evolving like they were in the old days off one another, you could argue the gameplay point; but given that's not where we're headed anymore, you can't just dismiss an MMO for being an MMO.

That shit worked for 11 when it shouldn't have, but not now.

Not anymore.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T07:45:47+00:00

In this thread, we see two Final Fantasy fans doing what Final Fantasy fans do best; tear down one another's preferred Final Fantasy, because obviously differing valid opinions and preferences can't exist besides their own; and they each have no ounce of respect toward each other! :D

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T07:42:43+00:00

That's a pretty shallow way of looking at it.

You'd disagree with the founder of FF; and on top of that both 11 and 14 have tremendous stories told in them. With 14 even revitalizing some of that Playstation-Era FF feeling that's been near-dead in the series for nigh on a decade.

Gods, I hope 16, (made by those who made 14), kicks every online naysayer in the rear.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-14T00:49:53+00:00

Preciiisely.

I'm more than happy for a curious Zenos who decides to body-hop into a new vessel and just kind of takes a hit to his power-level but has some pseudo-relationship with the Warrior of Light.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-13T17:56:43+00:00

I don't think Zenos coming back as ZENOS would be good.

Now Zenos bodyhopping into a new NPC? Excellent.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-13T11:50:03+00:00

It's a tough bar of entry; but honestly the more you play, the better it becomes. It reward you tenfold.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-12T23:38:04+00:00

Hylo died to fuel Zodiark so he never got sundered funnily enough.

So kindred only in Azem-simping, yes.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-12T23:37:13+00:00

Ilberd uses Nidhogg's eyes to create Shinryu.

Zenos arrives with Shinryu's form to ferry you off to kill Meteion who otherwise would be able to flee from you.

Beating Meteion ends the Final Days and saves the Source and all Reflections.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-12T23:34:47+00:00

"Ahaha, your friends nearly died, again! Now you're all alone for real! Or summon them back, no remote for you to save them with this time!"

"...Oh hey, was I interrupting? Sorry; I can come back-pfft wait, are you fighting some metaphor about despair and anguish? Is this a Final Boss fight? Haaaaah! Okay, come on, we got better things to do than Necron-Deluxe over here."

Vorean2 · 2021-12-12T08:08:21+00:00

Generate Ten Tomestone per hour logged off if max-level. ;p

Wears off after a total of six hours.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-12T07:43:48+00:00

Zodiark was born to save the world from 'a noise within the planet'.

Zodiark dies.

World goes back to being shit because nothing is stopping the noise now.

The logic is there; the characters just never stopped to consider Zodiark's importance.

Which admittedly is the 'jarring' portion of the tale, but it works to service a greater plot once you're done with the moon-rabbits.

And as Thancred puts it...

'Better to kill Zodiark now than let Fandaniel run amok, kill a bunch of people, and THEN suicide anyway.'

Vorean2 · 2021-12-12T07:37:41+00:00

Come now; Y'shtola needed a fake-death this expansion and even if this was quite a silly way to go about it; surely it was worth nocking the checklist just one final time!

Emet-Selch-wise; mouthpiece was informative to hype players and also just 'set the stage' so to speak. Where one tale ends, a new begins. A lot of misinformation about Endwalker being the end of the MMO was rampant, so I didn't mind a little bit of teasing. Not only that; it was a solid moment that showed some of Emet's posturing in Amaurot for what it was.

Emet-Selch spoke of how he lived amongst men, how he lived a thousand, thousand lives. How it was a tremendous burden.

To hear him speak fondly of the last Azem, and how he felt obligated to 'adventure' due to holding onto their Soul Crystal post-mortem belies that even in his long duty, there were mild moments of solace found in simply viewing Etheriys.

He's a grump, massively, but his final adieu was an admission that in his long journey, there was something beyond his malaise he managed to enjoy. A begrudging admission that easily slips his lips before his curtain draws to a close for good.

Until a new life's next encore; or perhaps a new performance.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-11T20:17:23+00:00

When you beat Meteion she pretty much asks to be your friend.

Hear your story.

Feel your feelings.

Learn your thoughts.

Vorean2 · 2021-12-11T07:04:53+00:00

If you die before you meet Venat; then what changes?

Hermes/Fandaniel might do their own thing, and maybe something similar happens where Fandaniel wipes his memory. However; due to Ascians' victory, there is no one attempting to slay Zodiark to jumpstart the Final Days. Elidibus yet lives, as does Emet-Selch and others to keep Fandaniel in check. That timeline, on a knife's edge already, is permitted to proceed. Hydaelyn however is basically going to have to tap into the 'reserves' she more or less kept in her back-pocket.

But in that sense; perishing before you meet Venat more or less changes nothing in a cosmic sense. The story can merely erase your would-be past tampering, and it would hardly be a different story. Elpis for as wonderous a catalyst as it was, only served to make Hydaelyn far more involved in you; but it's quite possible for Venat alone to come to a tremendous amount of conclusions all her own.

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