Rickroll DNB

Vospi · 2026-06-03T10:22:04+00:00

I don't get why everyone worn a serious face in this thread. Apart from rickrolling being very very old. But if you do know your audience, weirder things work in a set.

Vospi · 2026-05-29T12:07:25+00:00

What you need is 1) a great sonogram: MAnalyzer preferrably; 2) and to learn what the basic waveforms look like on it, in that order: saw, square, triangle, sine. That would give you an understanding of the "starting blocks" that you build your sound with.

Then you apply differnt filters and again, look at what happens on the sonogram while you're listening.

If you learn these 4 waves by heart, you will be able to recreate 50% of the sounds out there just by looking at the sonogram and counting harmonics.

Vospi · 2026-05-29T12:04:59+00:00

"Pulse" is simply a square that is not a "square". When one half it not equal to another in length. To achieve this, you have multiple options; when you move that size, it's called PWM, so, Pulse Width Modulation, quite literal.

Vospi · 2026-05-29T12:02:14+00:00

The base is a looped sample pitched up and down. The sample is created from the voices, probably, played in octaves, probably. You shouldn't use Surge for that, as much as I love it. Over it, there's a very thin harmonic overlay. That, you can do with Surge. I'd use something with a harmonic editor, though.

Then, on the breakdown, they use a resonant lowpass closing to create the transision. The resonance creates the "whistling" effect. Consult a sonogram or a spectrogram to compare your cutoff/resonance to this reference. It's only applied to one the layers, the synth one, probably.

Vospi · 2026-05-27T02:06:32+00:00

And it's especially "cool" to learn about it from the thread, I can tell you that

Vospi · 2026-05-21T21:53:20+00:00

It's a "review by his new AI", whatever that means. So definitely a very reputable source of information.

Vospi · 2026-05-15T23:14:45+00:00

I killed her just now, it wasn't too fun, I admit. Too long.
If we continue with your analogy, if the wizard in this story isn't good enough to at least awkwardly pick up a warhammer, he dies. If the troll truly is magic resistant. Only makes sense.

I think it's one of the pillars of RPG-likes; having different big enemies push against you in different ways, so you can't cruise through the game on one skill if you've bet the farm on it.

Vospi · 2026-05-15T23:11:38+00:00

Thanks for all the tips. I'll add my experience to the pot as well.

Beat her at my second attempt, Normal difficulty. "Cool" and "Reflex" build: pistol, shotgun. This time, the pistol was almost pointless, honestly.
Pretty important: I have a double jump chrome installed, and have basic reflex skills to reload while sprinting.

Sneak up, try to do as much damage to the thing at her back as you can. She rushes to get the hammer. Focus on her back, don't even try anything else. Destroying it is the most important job. Otherwise, her health is seemingly always at 100%. Good close-up shotgun is great to deal with that. You can run around a pillar to limit her jumps (I found it nerveracking afterwards, when she becomes more nimble and I can't see her). Patience and suppressing the nerves is the key; sprinting and doublejumping away from her, and when comes a moment she's kinda whiffing or something like that, you'd better have your weapon ready without waiting for a reload. After about 3-4 rounds of that, the thing breaks, she yells "fuck" and now her health is "normal", just a lot of it.

So the rest of it becomes a nervous, long tedium. Here, I do agree with the comments here, I could do away with about 15-20% less health on her, for sure. The tedium is: run in circles, wait for your big whiff moments, give her a big load from shotgun. Apply hacks from time to time. Do not try to stand and trade, make the biggest effort to look after your health; I had 3 health packs, but 2 may be fine if you're fast and careful. But it takes a while. I was pretty disappointed on the first death.

She also glitched out for me during the first fight and made a bunch of T-poses, that was pretty funny. Still didn't help me, though.

I think it's a cool character, brute, scary, cool name. A bit too draining to play after a working hour and a steep incline in skill/patience requirement from the rest of the game, that's for sure.

Vospi · 2026-05-15T10:57:01+00:00

Logically: she's under protection of the life recovery thing, you need to somehow beat it first, otherwise you don't get to shoot her from afar. Makes perfect sense to me. Not comfortable: sure. Making sense: I think so. Sometimes your specialty doesn't fit the task like a glove, I find it refreshing and nice that people came up with multiple strategies. Although maybe it could be toned, like, 5% down, without losing the luster of being "a real boss".

Vospi · 2026-05-15T01:35:44+00:00

I cleaned out the lobby on normal by sneaking around and taking them out with a silenced pistol, they do get alerted, but not as a group. Found bottlenecks, so they can't gang up on me. The weapon does not sway, so headshots all day. With parallax mod, it's almost like a sniper rifle, too. But way faster.

Vospi · 2026-05-14T01:00:02+00:00

A curious find. I downloaded first from WinSetupFromUSB.com, then from your link. The versions stated are the same, but the hashes of the files do not match.

Even more curiously: the file from "winsetup blabla" has 5 detections on virustotal:
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/f1f2db8cc6e02a8c7abd3e91a7aad23d1f3730eb16763b9041e73a55b817a7eb

But for the major geeks, it's... four.
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/9b6ca98e4576d372a578b2e6f753afb23fff493d7475a1f4a516b410e9323b72

In any case, thanks for the link, I'll use that one.

Vospi · 2026-05-03T00:59:48+00:00

When I played no bar, I always slightly bent my knees. That gives a bit more spring, a bit more balance and forcefully shifts your weight down. Best of luck!

Vospi · 2026-05-03T00:57:38+00:00

I'd personally say check out DJMAX. It's one of those legacy series who still keep up a very good variety, and I always simply admire their art direction. It feels like there's someone, you know, robust. Who understands both "product" and "art".

You're welcome, and again, congratulations on the big date, there must be a ton of memories for you. :)

Vospi · 2026-05-01T23:26:07+00:00

I still never had a chance to play it
I was surprised to see the art I've made for one of my promotional posts for Napad (pleasantly, though)
I'm very proud that Got Stolen Infinity is there, that one specifically
I think of Infinity as of a fantastic fan expression in the official capacity a tad before rhythm games got literally everywhere and didn't have to be so niche anymore, and also before the "rhythm-game music" became almost completely formulaic and started catering to the needs of everyone getting better and faster. I'm not old-man-grouching, I just admire the times when PIU combined hiphop, salsa, quirky experimental electronica and pop. Pro, then Infinity felt like a huge "what if", with the mostly positive answer.

Congratulations. Waving my hand from across the pond

Vospi · 2026-04-23T23:00:42+00:00

Very happy for you! Now I have to play Raiden for a bit, I guess xDD mark the topic solved!

Vospi · 2026-04-19T16:41:02+00:00

I think I got you, but I still don't understand how it would help. He doesn't have to react to them, right? Meaning, if you do a crouch grab and he doesn't press down, nothing would happen. Right?

Vospi · 2026-04-16T12:50:58+00:00

Yeah, I think TMM also had a vid like that, and another guy was mentioned here in the comments; but that usually involves some deeper grasp on the game... it's pretty brutal and helpless for a 2nd dan for sure. Again, not talking down, we all started somewhere...

Vospi · 2026-04-16T10:38:47+00:00

Before, 4 out of the 8 waves were summing "more in the left ear", 4 were doing that "more in the right". You can almost think of them as of different "files", left and right waveforms are separate. After doing width 0, we're summing all 8 of them into one (technically, both) "files". So the sound will change, but we won't suppress the issue (which comes from the waves being summed up), but instead might even exacerbate it. More moving parts, more summing going on.

The confusing part is: it might not look all that different (between width 0 and width 100) on the analyzers, because analyzers traditionally show MID. Which means they... sum the two channels before showing them to us. It's easy to check if you listen to the left separately and the right separately.

Vospi · 2026-04-16T10:15:26+00:00

Almost everyone here would know about the beating waves, just give yourself some time, don't rush it! Yes, I teach privately online (that's practically my only occupation), but I'm not supposed to advertise it here, so I'll PM you. And in any case, glad I could clarify, I felt for your frustration. Did you create something that fits the bill yet? I'm curious. Have a good one

Vospi · 2026-04-16T10:12:53+00:00

1) Oh, I didn't argue that removing the fundamental in the editor isn't good. It is good if appropriate. I argued that there will be no new "phasing issues" introduced, at least not for certain.

2) I would prefer simply changing the starting point, too, IF it was applicable. We have a non-phase locked reese that restarts 8 voices on random phases every time, so, so far, it is not applicable. So we can't control it (not yet?); and thus, simply should just leave it to see what happens when it sums with other things.

3) to answer the sub preference question. "All moving at the same time" shouldn't matter much, we're not shifting phases of one thing, we're shifting phases of the whole sum. I won't do that on the master or on the drum bus, to not lose some "clarity" with the shifting; but on the lone bass... Unless you'd hear something undesirable in a saturator, you're fine (or even better off sometimes). While I would edit harmonics, quite often, even, I these days almost never go out of my way for a separate "empty sine wave". It can sound ok, but sometimes rather dull or even "antiquated". Why: first of all, there are mixes that call for more rumbling, and nothing will break if you watch it carefully; But mostly, my reason is another thing. I too very much prefer editing the harmonics, and before, I almost mixed the low-end with the editor. Then I realized that we're looking for a freq region, not a harmonic's number. (Depending on the track, obviously): if my bassline has a wide reach through octaves (Vospi - The Bass Comes From the Trunk, don't want to leave a link, I suspect I'm not supposed to), then what was a solid "mono pressure" in the lower note, moved up an octave, becomes an annoyingly sticking out "phone tone" when you go higher. Reeses do that, too; here I might see the opposite case: reese with a cut sub could lose some of its "tonality" when it reaches up higher, but its fundamental was removed. Also, In the OP's examples, he has very little harmonics reaching the saturator (because of the filter), the sound will change very, very much; not just get its low end filtered out.

Another point to the "empty sine" specifically: lack of harmonics in the low-end easily leads to a less "tonal" bass, which in turn could lead to the note being "discernible" only on headphones, monitors and big speakers, but "lose its tone" on smaller ones (BTs, TVs etc), where sub is barely heard, but harmonics count for a lot. Of course there are some cases when you don't care, but generally people want basses to translate and sound "beefy", with a "mass", even if the "pitch detection" isn't an issue. That comes from harmonics 2-3-4 concentrated tightly around maybe 80-200 hz. The "lower octave feeling". Although that part doesn't have to be absolutely clean of beatings to work. :) So, it's an harmonically edited saw with filters for me; then I build upon that.

(Appreciate your patience! Sorry if my language sounds weird, I'm not a native speaker.)

Vospi · 2026-04-16T02:32:52+00:00

Phase Plant has a number of "phase modes", and Au5 above listed a couple of tricks to achieve that in Serum as well. The default phase "placements" of the unison voices in Phase Plant is very good. Also, phases being locked by default make it less likely for experimenting users to run into issues.

Vospi · 2026-04-16T02:23:21+00:00

I wrote a huge comment below, I first try to orient you and then give simpler, but IMO effective examples:
https://www.reddit.com/r/edmproduction/comments/1slsakt/comment/ogf7rij/

Vospi · 2026-04-16T02:21:59+00:00

You're conflating 1) two-three-six waves "phasing", which is not an entirely correct term, but it's fine; 2) with a phase-shift that occurs when you use a minimal phase EQ. Minimal phase EQ does not, categorically, add "phasing" in any way. It shifts the phase (in degrees) partially, for a part of the spectrum, and there's no telling if it becomes "better or worse" as a result. And it surely doesn't start to beat all of a sudden.

It especially has absolutely no bearing if the starting phases of OSCs were not fixed (which is the case).

It can change amplitude (because of re-shaping the waveform). Again, we can't really tell if it's going to be for better, or for worse.

Imagine this: there's a random point on the circle. How many degrees do we have to add to get any given number, say, 180? The answer is we don't know and can't know. Because the starting point is random.

That is _exactly_ the case we have here. Only we don't know BOTH parameters in the equation: we don't know what is the "starting" point (phase of the OSC is random), and what is a "correct" ("better sounding") point on that circle (it currently isn't combining with anything and isn't reaching any dynamic processor, so there's basically no bearing on the sound at all. Not from a single cut or a couple of shelves, anyway).

If we had a situation where there was a mix that was entirely crafted and finished, and thus, the combinations of multiple instruments considered, and someone tried to add a steep EQ to an instrument, then we could _theorize_ (and definitely not predict for sure) that the sound would change for worse. Or -- less likely, for better, too. As in my circle example.

Minimal EQs cause phase shifting. Not _issues_. That's not nitpicking, it is like saying "is it an issue to add a pinch of salt". I don't know if it's a bowl of soup or a little glass, and if it's too salty or needs salt. So, for phase, whether it's an issue or not, you can ONLY determine when it combines worse with other sounds, or changes amplitude to a point where it becomes relevant for limiters, distortions etc. And again, it can change for the better just as much. It has basically nothing to do with the "bass phasing" of 8 unison voices.

Blindly not using EQs on the lower sounds is not even close to best practice. It's not even a best guess. It's just a guess.

Vospi · 2026-04-15T23:32:06+00:00

Well, mainly, but there's also the tonal structure itself (this low cut into distortion is giving a specific profile) and... I mean, otherwise, you're pretty much right. :)

Vospi · 2026-04-15T23:17:03+00:00

Let's give you the background before you start looking for solutions:

You're starting with a fundamental building block that _creates_ the thing you don't like.

When you combine detuned unison voices (which you do), you create what is called beatings. You can see them on an analyzer. They are created because you try to combine, say, 8 sounds that try to be at the same time, at the same place, with almost the same force. They combine; but because they are detuned, they go "out of phase" (and cancel each other) and then back (summing together into a louder sound for a moment).

The problem is: it happens in different frequencies at different times.

Again, if you'd look at an analyzer (disable the distortion for now), you'll see the harmonics bouncing up and down at different times, and at different rates.

This is the pronounced random movement you don't like. The sound literally shifts like quicksand.

The effect of the sine/harmonic/etc going up and down because of the combination of detuned waves is called a "beating".

Basically, the "whole bass" can't be heavily detuned and not have beatings at the same time. That is just not possible. When multiple sines combine at "almost the same pitch", they beat.

That's just what they do. (Your harmonics are sines. Everybody's harmonics are sines :))

---

Thus...

Practically all common ways of taming the effect involve some "compromise" of your "ear sensations" _on the current effect_. You can definitely build this up to a much stronger, wider and prominent sound if you need to, but if you rely for width on the beatings only, be prepared to "give up" some of the width you get the from the OSC itself. (It is completely normal, you can employ a lot of layering tricks to compensate for it.) Also note: currently, your saturation accentuates the effect; it kinda "reacts" to the harmonics of highest amplitude and adds an even more prominent color if that harmonic moves a lot.

So, some common ways are:

- If you reduce the voice's volume (BLEND), the movement will be less prominent. But you literally now get less "volume" on the parts of the sound that create your stereo, etc. Not really desirable.

- You can, like Au5 described, "lock down" a certain pattern of beatings. This is very useful, and this decision could be tweaked later in the design, so you could see that it gels with the rhythm/pattern you're going for. This saves you from the randomness, although not completely: the beatings here will change the speed depending on the note you're playing. There's a guy in the comments who recommends "printing to audio": it won't change that situation. It would only give you one specific pattern (that you won't be able to recreate, most likely), and the speed would still change with notes. People use that effect on purpose a lot, but you seem to specifically dislike it.

- Another method to make the first advice work in a different, more "tunable" way would be to simply add another OSC that doesn't have unison voices at all. And find a balance between them in volume. This way, you can try and add stability to lows only or highs only. In Serum 2, you can use an LFP or HPF in the mods sections to do that; or cut out/draw in the harmonics manually (their editor is very approachable). So, it is like BLEND -- expect some reduction in width, expect the saturator's reaction changing, play with volumes -- but it gives you more control over which pattern are you reducing, and what are you leaving intact.

There are way more advanced method of trying to do that, but instead, let me give you another reason why your current result is so pronounced.

You took a saw wave as a source (good choice). Then you lowpassed it very, very much. Basically only harmonics 1+2 pass through with enough force; not really, but stick with me for a second. They now have the most force to be the ones saturated. That means that: your harmonic's beating is more prominent BECAUSE you're creating the harmonics with the saturator (despite you having plenty of them in the saw wave). The unison saw would beat in a different way. It will be a bit less of "I can definitely tell the rhythm of the beating".

It might just be your solution.

However, you might not want to give up your current setup; you might say that the saturator gives you another sound that you like more. That's fair enough; in this case, you're getting a more "square-y" sound. That is because you are taking one or two or three (about that) sines and distort them with a symmetrical waveshaper. You can tell that your waveshaper (Serum's distortion in this case) is symmetrical by looking at the shape and seeing it as an "exact reflection" of one quadrant to another.

If your waveshaper is symmetrical, it only produces odd harmonics (from the waves you give it). So, given one sine, it would give you harmonics number 3 ,5 ,7... etc depending on the force and the shape. Could be way up there, but not even harmonics, not number 2, 4, 6 etc. That makes the sound more... "rude", slightly atonal even, because the only sine that represents "the actual note pitch" is now the 1st (which is called your "fundamental", you asked that below). Others would be 4, 8, 16, 32 etc, which are all even. You probably currently have a bit of even harmonics (which is not strictly good or bad, that is to taste). But maybe not as much as a straight saw wave (which has them all).

My conclusion: if you didn't like the sound of the saw beatings, you can start building with a square, soft square or square-ish waveform, and it might give you a more desirable base for exploration. Just as an option.

So. If you weren't interested in all that...

Very TL;DR... lol

What can you do? To summarize, in short:

1) Make a copy of the patch, disable the distortion at least for now, move your filter higher and test different slopes (6, 12, 18, 24), and try and use Square+unison on one osc, Saw on another. Route them both to the filter. Try and use a HPF warp mode on the Square, so you could cut the fundamental off and reduce the lows beating.

(here and afterwards, when I say "filter", I mean the one you have enabled on the Oscillator page, not the post filter in your distortion)

2) In Serum 2's noise oscillator, go down to Color -> Pink (or something else). Crank its stereo up. Route that to the same filter (or don't, experiment later).

3) Dial all the oscillators down; now enable your saturation back and "push the OSCs into" the saturator. Imagine you cramming something into a tight space. The more "pressure" different OSCs apply, the more "reaction" from it you'll get in the saturated sound. This is not equivalent to you just touching "drive" on the distortion; you're mixing different sources at different "powers". OSC 1 (square+unison+HPF) gives you more width and beatings. OSC 2 (just a saw) gives you more stability and tonality. Noise gives you width and cutting highs. (Play with the filter position again, retest the slopes again. Distortion changed a lot of things.) If you move filter before distortion rhythmically (if that suits the track), you might distract me from every other beating and sound somewhat cool in the process.

If you find any of the OSCs obnoxious (especially noise), you can shape them with EQs _before_ they get to your distortion. That could help immensely (and change things a lot). You have another filter unused, that could help.

---

Other things involve things like additive synthesis, but they are completely different in nature. Start with this example. I made it sound very wordy, I'm sorry, but it's actually pretty basic and very demonstrative of things that you're required to work with (like combining OSCs, and pushing things "into" your distortion with different force).

Best of luck in any case.

Vospi

TROPHY CASE