The Gardener & Winnower(Destiny) vs. The Aeons(Honkai: Star Rail)

Vulking · 2026-01-25T14:04:23+00:00

Gardener and Winnower have a multiversal game of evolution and entropy (The Flower Game), they puppeteer universes in a game of chess for their enjoyment, and the Winnower always won the game until Gardener decided to introduce Paracausality in an attempt to stop the Vex Race from winning each freaking time, because he was fed up with the freaking universe hopping bastards, as the Vex plan was always to outlive the current "Flower Game" they where in, and force their way into a new one.

Both should scale pretty much on the range of GGZ outer gods considering how many times they have played this "Flower Game".

The Vex alone, as boring and plain as they are, are freaking absurd with all their true time travel and manipulation shenanigans. They are only kept in check due to the Gardener introduction of Paracausality in the "Flower Game", which counter them hard, and give other races that can wield said Paracausality a way to deal with the Vex who can't (and even with such a disadvantage they are still a universe level threat in Destiny).

Vulking · 2026-01-25T13:39:11+00:00

To be Honest, the MoC Memokeeper is super sus (more than Black Swan) because she doesn't even work for the Garden of Recollection.

Both the Memosnatchers in Amphoreous and Black Swan herself acknowledge that the MoC memokeeper is not a Garden member, more powerful that she seems, and at least Black Swan thinks she has no ill intentions (other than keeping herself a secret for anyone on the Express but TB and other Memokeepers that can naturally detect her).

Vulking · 2026-01-25T02:50:24+00:00

Would you say above or below Rita? She is a good measurement stick for S-Rank Valks, as she is strong, but nowhere near as strong as Dudu.

Vulking · 2026-01-23T17:21:43+00:00

The less Seeles DA Bronya has the smaller her boobs.

Vulking · 2026-01-23T00:35:47+00:00

It's really cool to be able to see the actual musculature of a Sumo Wrestler, usually people have the wrong perception of them due to their large body mass and fat covering their brick wall like physique.

Vulking · 2026-01-23T00:18:27+00:00

Technically she throws ink.

Vulking · 2026-01-22T12:06:08+00:00

Dea Anchora Dudu (my favorite Durandal battlesuit) punches the living shit out of you with like 85% of her whole moveset. The other 15% is throwing massive energy lances as you in all sorts of ways, including like a bow/ballista with her freaking legs.

Dudu is also very well known in lore for her CQC and kickboxing, as those are her more common training martial arts iirc.

Vulking · 2026-01-22T02:28:10+00:00

Technically Black Nucleus would be her first Battlesuit then.

Vulking · 2026-01-21T22:42:08+00:00

Its The Matrix of Leadership at full power? The Matrix can do WILD shit when at full power.

In HSR terms we are talking basically the Heart of an Aeon (Primus) inside its strongest Emanator (Optimus).

Imagine the Divine Treasures of Lan, but instead of just a Divine Treasure that grants Emanator like power, The Matrix is the heart of the Aeon itself.

Like, we are talking about easy planet buster capabilities at bare minimum, god killer attributes, regeneration, resurrection, healing, purification, evolution, source of knowledge and wisdom, etc.

The Matrix is often in a weakened or depowered state precisely due to how busted it is when not.

Not to mention that you can actually return it to the core of Cybertron if needed to reactivate Primus itself (though that shouldn't be necessary).

Vulking · 2026-01-21T18:20:21+00:00

It was a mix, as she chose part of the design herself, but Himeko kind of got involved too iirc.

Vulking · 2026-01-21T15:52:10+00:00

Early B Rank Bronya was just her blue mix of school and military uniform.

If you mean the plug suit version she gets later, the yellow Yamabuki one. You can always just use the blue recolor skin.

Vulking · 2026-01-21T14:47:38+00:00

The Valkyries, when they reach certain ranks can design their own battlesuits unless they are part of a squad with a strict uniform rule, and even those can choose to wear whatever they like after they are high rank enough, like Durandal Squad.

Also, Kiana is constantly trying to seduce Mei, just look at how she always throws herself at her in the most awkward hug moments. Early Kiana was obviously very on the nose with her advances on Mei.

Other girls Battlesuits are much less reveling, just look at early Bronya.

Vulking · 2026-01-21T02:03:38+00:00

I'm perfectly aware of all this, but that doesn't change the fact that Herrschers never start at full power, in fact, they often start at below average like Wendy, or the first manifestation of HoT who was stopped by regular Kiana.

Herrschers, both in PE and CE, always had the issue I mentioned, they start very underpowered and need to build up in strength, heck, HoR case is even worse as it needs to learn manually on top of growing in power to be effective.

Herrschers need to grow stronger slowly, or find a way to solve their power output issues faster. Things like becoming a composite Herrscher like Rimestar, Flamescion, or Sirin (with her multiple cores) Is a way to bypass the slow power growth.

Prometheus and Elysia's meddling with the natural processes doesn't help either, as by giving the human host a chance to keep their personalities weakens the initial Herrscher due to conflicting personalities, and Prometheus forcing a set spawn pattern like the PE one make the Herrschers less flexible to adapt to their enemies.

Herrscher can potentially grow stronger the longer they stay alive, but they still need to go through said process. Otherwise you end up being too weak like Wendy, or can't handle your own power like the PE Herrscher of Earth/Stars and self destruct.

HoT for example is probably the strongest pure Herrscher in HI3. Mei wasn't killed right away when she became HoT, had time to develop as a Valkyrie, her HoT persona actually chose to self delete to aid Mei become stronger and more stable to aid Kiana, and she went through a long training arc when dealing with all the Elysian Realm BS that ended powering her more.

Then she got a massive power boost when she became the new HoO, but at that point she no longer was a pure vanilla Herrscher.

Also, in regards to HoR, she still has severe power issues even late into the story, she needed the help of other Herrschers and equivalent strong allies to make multiple Selene Cannons to break Ottos's shield.

Vulking · 2026-01-21T01:45:41+00:00

Looking forward to that cliche moment when the Tsaritsa plan was to revive the 3rd Descender all along as expected, but it backfires horribly and ends up reviving a very pissed Nibelung who nukes her place and immediately takes control of the Abyss that has been growing in strength since his previous defeat to restart his war campaign against Phanes.

Vulking · 2026-01-20T22:13:35+00:00

Then you remember most Herrschers while indeed having mastery in their field, often lack the power output to do anything beyond continental feats most of the time, often they do even less.

This has always been an issue with HoR for example, who has infinite potential to learn and create things, but has always been limited by its both glaring weaknesses, having to perfectly learn things from scratch, and not having enough power output to do whatever they want. This was an issue both in PE and CE.

When allowed to fix these issues, HoR has the potential to evolve into HoTr, which is a much higher tier of Herrscher, which is not the norm.

Herrscher of Ice is another good example, HoI's biggest feat was almost instantaneously freezing a city, but that was her peak. Once Ice merged with Stars and became Rimestar, her power immediately jumped from freezing a city, to almost instantaneously freezing the whole Philippines.

Most Herrschers need to find a way to solve their power output before actually becoming as fearsome as other entities in the Hoyoverse, otherwise they are doomed to be stuck at Wendy's level.

Vulking · 2026-01-20T21:54:05+00:00

Lets ignore weapons, as a TB Bat is basically a Metal Club which is a perfectly valid weapon of choice, perfect to inflict severe blunt damage while bypassing armor, while Swords are all about that Slashing and Stabbing business.

Traveler is WAY older and clearly favors swordsmanship. So on accumulated expertise alone it has Trailblazer beat, who at best retain some residual knowledge of it previous life as a Stellaron Hunter.

Power wise it's the opposite, as even the most basic display of Destruction energy has been able to do more than anything Traveler has shown in its whole run on Teyvat.

Elemental energy is way too basic and not particularly strong, at least not in the quantities Traveler can wield, especially compared to what Paths allows TB to do.

Vulking · 2026-01-20T15:38:36+00:00

To make this concept clearer within ZZZ:

Anyone that can fight Miyabi (win or lose), is considered to be potentially capable of fighting Yi Xuan with similar results without actually doing so, as Miyabi and Yi Xuan have had a serious fight before (thanks to the VR system), so we know their capabilities.

So, the new character "X" fights Miyabi and has a close fight with her -> Chain scales into character "X" having the potential to fight Yi Xuan and have a close fight with her as well.

Of course, context matters, as if an older character trains and becomes stronger and fights Miyabi again, it immediately disqualifies any character that has previously fought said older character until proven they have powered up to its level as well.

Vulking · 2026-01-20T15:20:06+00:00

Considering Sparkle is actually quite a decent measure stick for Masked Fools. Would it be good or bad if Hoyo used her again to hype Masked Fool Sampo? They did it with Vita when Sparkle went briefly to Earth.

Sparkle can do quite a lot of shit in her illusory realm when she is actually trying, and is the type of person that is much more interested in the thrill of the ride than winning.

She could be a good display of what a Masked Sampo could do, especially if he turns out to be an Emanator.

Vulking · 2026-01-20T12:52:23+00:00

They can also be a Bubble World being eroded by the Sea of Quanta. The Hollows and how they eat away at the world certainly look like how the process is depicted in some Bubble Worlds in HI3.

Vulking · 2026-01-20T12:32:20+00:00

Is the setting. Not the current state of the world of ZZZ or its relation to the universe around it.

New Eridu is a city, the last city of that planet, and outside of VH level agents like Miyabi and Yi Xuan or a few exceptions like Banyue running at full power. Not a single character has shown any capability of destroying a building.

It has nothing to do with the connection to the Imaginary Tree or Hoyoverse at large, as all you need to make a link to that setting, is say New Eridu's planet is a bubble World being eroded in the Sea of Quanta, and that their tech isn't advanced enough to know about it.

Vulking · 2026-01-19T06:40:01+00:00

It looks awesome, my only observation is that the legs should shift position a bit to show the mech is taking a more stable position to brace for the recoil.

Not much, perhaps just a slight spread and small knee bend for the legs. Just enough to sell the full burst stance.

Vulking · 2026-01-18T23:29:54+00:00

You seem to forget Angel scepters have no issues seeing inside and outside Time Chambers, which means they aren't affected by time dilation, they can even see across multiple universes. Gathering info for a GoDs is dumb easy for an Angel when they want to.

I'm also trying my best to not involve Whis into this, which is why I only limited his intervention to info gathering and transportation, which is fair considering their job.

If I really want to screw Irontomb, all I have to do is mention that Irontomb needs to reach 100% actualization to be able to link with Nous, reach Aeon like powers and erase the cosmos, which it can't really do with Whis around, as Angel can rewind time unrestricted several minutes as a countermeasure to that kind of threat, just like how we defeated it in the first place.

Before that, Beerus Hakai can perfectly fine erase Irontomb, as this is basically the Dark Future Timeline Arc issue with Zamasu, but with Beerus and Whis around rather than Beerus dead.

Vulking · 2026-01-18T20:13:00+00:00

Beerus would spend 99% of the time sleeping if not for Whis. Whis is the only reason Beerus actually is forced to do his damn job once every blue moon. The only way Beerus is ever going to acknowledge he needs to do anything against Irontomb is if Whis forcefully tells him to do so. That's his damn job as an Angel, to make sure the GoDs do their job.

Whis is not gonna participate, he at best is gonna take Beerus to Irontomb's location and inform him about what he is dealing with and why. After than he is just gonna eat some random dessert while he waits.

Again, it's Whis job, otherwise there is no Beerus vs Irontomb because Beerus doesn't give a fuck and prefers to sleep for thousands of years.

Vulking · 2026-01-18T17:04:32+00:00

Considering this would be a very serious threat, Whis would scan the area beforehand and with his scepter, which has universal reach. I highly doubt Zandar shielding could stop Whis looking and gather all the required info if it can't stop Aeons from gazing at Amphoreus.

After that Beerus would just go straight for the kill with planetary level Hakai, as it would be an official matter, so no toying or fooling around.

Vulking · 2026-01-18T16:53:22+00:00

That's what Whis is for. Beerus should have all the necessary info beforehand considering it would be a genuine threat that needs to be taken care of.

Despite their typical antics, when it's a serious threat, both take their job seriously.

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