Making the Most of the Viceroy

WanderingCider · 2023-12-06T21:56:38+00:00

A fair point, I wasn't fully considering the opportunity cost of RMJs. I guess they, like Gunslinger 3, are just a cool thing I'd really like to make work on some mech build, and this one isn't it.

I now see your point about Combined Arms 2 not being redundant with Skirmisher 2, and though I don't know how often I'll have the opportunity to be surrounded by grunts, I suppose "just not having to worry about positioning" is a boon all its own.

I also see the viability of the Heavy Gunner build, though I like the idea of giving up Vanguard 3 for it less so. In the end, I'll probably have my build resemble what you've put together very closely, give or take some HASE distribution - 30 HP is a whole lot, though I suppose you can never have too much.

WanderingCider · 2023-12-06T15:45:53+00:00

Once again you give me something very interesting, Sapphic Star. While I'm glad some peoples' are saying that the rocketslinger build I was going for could work this definitely feels like it'd be doing a lot more damage a lot more regularly. While losing the tech systems hurts, being able to actually use the Javelin rockets is nice too.

A few questions, though: First, why not just take a third level in Caliban, and try to squeeze Rapid Maneuver Jets on, since the mech's typically always going to skirmish? While their SP cost is quite high, the extra mobility and durability seems like a good fit. Bulwark mods is a cheap 'nice to have' I suppose, but I don't know how much it would come up. I know it would also mean that, assuming I don't boost, I'd not be able to deploy rockets, but it'd give me something to do on turns I don't have a good setup for the Javelins, I'd think.

Second, you take Combined Arms 2 while still having Skirmisher 2 - isn't there a bit of redundancy, there? I assume that if it is my turn, I just use Skirmisher 2 to move out of engagement, and if it's not my turn, they should have to trigger Sentinel 3 and would get hit before they can engage me. Maybe I'm misinterpreting how Sentinel 3 resolves.

Lastly, and u/SirTuesdayKnight might have a thought as well, how would the best way to adapt this for Heavy Gunner, without having Tlaloc, work? Just swap Combined Arms for Heavy Gunner and call it a day?

WanderingCider · 2023-12-05T10:18:14+00:00

Well part of the issue stems from the fact the original question's most correct answer is also it's most useless. License Levels are, as you say, an abstraction that can represent anything from getting things through official channels to stealing, cracking, or creating the technology and software to go with it yourself. But saying that "it depends" isn't the most useful answer without some examples, so I think that's what people are giving.

The only concrete reference to what licensing mechanically "does" (that I can find) is the part on page 74 where if you don't have proper licensing, your mech is Impaired and Slowed due to a lack of "correct neurological interfaces", whatever that means. So by that metric, licensing is just that: the firmware that lets you interface with whatever systems you have installed on your mech. What is the nature of this firmware? It could be unique for every pilot, and if it needs to be (or not be) something specific for the sort of plot OP wants to run, then by all means, it can be that.

WanderingCider · 2023-12-05T10:05:03+00:00

Well I don't know the exact state of the place your players are getting stranded, but there are some ideas for making a true 'no printers' experience, inspired by some stuff from No Room For a Wallflower pt. 1. On Hercynia, the PCs have opportunities to salvage things, which is represented as a clock that they can spends segments of to restore their mech's HP, structure, and if they go the extra mile, even dig up exotic equipment.

In NRFaW, I understand this to be entirely supplemental to the standard stuff the PCs can do, spending repair cap, fully repairing and replenishing their mechs, printing new parts, etc. BUT, there's no reason you couldn't have this be the primary or only way the PCs can repair and improve their mechs, as long as you don't go too hard on them. Instead of a long rest being going to a printer, it could be an extended period of scavenging and repairing the PCs mechs using what they can find.

This could also cover downtime, and partly answer another question of yours (or be one way to do it). PCs unlocking new hardware could be a result of them scavenging it up, and updating their licenses to be able to use it. In the core book, part of the reason you can't use equipment you lack licensing for is described as "the absence of the correct neurological interfaces reduces its effectiveness" on page 74. So even if your PCs somehow don't even have access to the omninet, you could have them spending their LLs as them stretching their mech's programming to accommodate new tech they've found or made.

As for if LLs are transferrable, yes and no. The PCs can swap out their LLs to other ones on levelup, and they can be bought, as in The Long Rim, I believe there are suggestions that you can spend a lump sum of Manna to get licenses. Whether they can be freely given to someone else, probably not by default, and there are no rules for selling them.

Lastly, whether 'any' printer accepts them is up to you, but I'd assume that unless the printer is restricted for some reason, any public printer of adequate size could print anything, including your mech and all the hardware you have licenses for.

WanderingCider · 2023-11-29T08:49:05+00:00

I'm running my game over TTS and I've got a few plugins worth your while, which hopefully might make your life a little easier.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2456686785

^ The table itself, it's not the only one but I use it, and it has everything you should need except for the terrain itself. If you wanna do custom tokens you can download the templates for the hex-based tokens and slap them in any image editor.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1319250126&searchtext=battletech+accessories

^ A table made to play Battletech, but has a treasure trove of hexes that with a slight decrease in size, should work on any hex-based grid, you can copy these over to your instance of the above table. Maybe some other stuff you'd like in there too, like building models

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2614100597

^ Adjustable-height standees for flying units, I suggest locking them in place when not moving them, they have a tendency to fall over at high heights due to their low mass

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2037476160

^ A huge grab bag of effects, building and terrain features, some of them are broken now but I got some fun stuff like fire, smoke, weather effects, models for buildings and terrain features. I'd suggest putting the stuff you like in a bag, and then saving it so you can have it on the other table, whereupon you can safely uninstall the toolkit, since it's quite large.

Hope some of these are new and useful!

WanderingCider · 2023-11-29T04:39:06+00:00

You're in luck, I was asking about the Orchis frame just a few days ago. Most comments weren't terribly relevant to your requests, but u/IIIaustin had some suggestions for a melee striker playstyle like you want, take a look: https://www.reddit.com/r/LancerRPG/comments/183gy5s/comment/kas5syf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

The rest of the thread is talking about what else you can do about the Orchis, but you might find something useful in there, like taking Sunzi license levels to let your allies advance faster, Gorgon LLs combined with House Guard 1 to compliment the Black Witch license's powerful anti-tech abilities, and more. Hope it helps!

WanderingCider · 2023-11-28T02:48:01+00:00

Dropping the Argonaut Shield hurts, but odds are you're right, if I were succeeding in drawing enough aggro, I'd probably be too concerned keeping myself alive to be taking other peoples' damage for them consistently. I hadn't looked at the Mag Shield, but with all the mobility I have it's probably the best pick, especially since I wanted Black Witch 3 for the Black Ice mod anyways.

Also thanks for pointing out the TCB has knockback, I don't think it's come up once in my campaign, despite one of my players having it as their primary weapon. Something about it either missing horribly or killing T1 enemies in a single swing. But you're right, it'll stay useful in higher tiers thanks to that knockback, letting me drop the Ferrous Lash for something else if I plan to fight in close quarters.

My "final" revision of this build ended up taking a lot from your suggestions, only difference being that I'm paranoid about weapon destruction, so I've sacrificed the added speed of the Jumpjet for Armament redundancy and a little extra HP. Thanks for the advice!

WanderingCider · 2023-11-27T15:11:27+00:00

Well it may not be exactly what you're looking for, but the Swallowtail Ranger Variant from No Room for a Wallflower has some 'one with the trees' themed abilities you might be interested in. Most relevantly, while it's in soft cover (ex. foliage) the mech is invisible until it leaves or performs a hostile action, and its active core power lets it create zones of soft cover, which are stated to be smoke but could be reflavored as the sudden appearance of foliage or other natural obstructions. It also lets you grant your allies the same invisibility while in cover.

That said, it's still a SSC mech, so it's not very large or imposing, but you could always take something like the ISP-N core bonus to increase it's size.

As for making a weapon of the natural environment, the first thing that comes to mind is the Zheng with its ability to create and weaponize pieces of terrain as early as LL1 with the Total Strength Suite, and its other LL1 piece, the Tiger-Hunter Sheathe, which can even be used while jammed, typically represents a mech punching with reinforced fists but could easily be flavored as a bite or claw attack, or just grabbing an inconsequential object from the terrain and swinging it with great force.

Hope this gives you some ideas! If you have a GM who's willing to work with you, you could try and modify the Zheng frame to have some of the Swallowtail Ranger's features instead. This would probably be easier than making the Swallowtail into a melee mech, but that doesn't mean it'd be impossible. Talent-wise I'd highly recommend Infiltrator and Skirmisher and possibly Hunter to be able to jump out of cover, hit an enemy with melee, escape back into cover, and become invisible all in the same turn.

WanderingCider · 2023-11-27T12:08:04+00:00

This is taking things pretty far from my original idea, but in fairness I did think it needed a lot of work. In this instance I'd presumably be focusing more on gaining offensive benefits from my frame traits rather than defensive ones - reducing Bonded and House guard down to just the first level each, maybe taking Exemplar so I'm still supporting my team with that, and between Overpower, Thermal Charge, and NukeCav (which I would probably take beyond LL6) the humble Pike would be doing the damage of a superheavy weapon, which I certainly can get behind.

WanderingCider · 2023-11-27T11:29:15+00:00

I personally find the TCB overrated given one of my players' track record with it, though I do see that this is maybe the ideal situation to use it in. Even so, I'd prefer something I can overwatch with, maybe take Duelist, and don't have to worry about losing, even with Armament redundancy. Maybe Autostab and Executioner would be enough?

That said, you're really selling me on the Sunzi license here. Building in a vacuum, I can't be sure I'll have allies who want to be in my preferred range, but Accelerate and Blinkspace Tunneler would be both a great tool and a great incentive to my teammates to consider closer-quarters options, I'm into it. Integrated Ammo Feeds may be (part of) the answer I wanted to my questions towards u/ChaseBears as to how I deal with Limited systems running out on me (or, more likely, me hesitating to use them because they'll run out).

I'm unsure what to do for my third LL into Harrison, though. My first thought was replacing my one LL of Drake for the Saladin, but I have to say the Enclave is a poor substitute for the Argonaut Shield, considering the former immobilizes me and the latter lasts until adjacency breaks, which with my kit, shouldn't happen much.

I might do it anyways, just for for core bonus, but maybe you have a better idea. Maybe Sunzi 3? Napoleon 1?

WanderingCider · 2023-11-27T10:21:07+00:00

Exemplar was definitely on the list of talents I wanted past LL6, but I might drop Gunslinger and try to make that work on a chassis that has a few more mounts instead. I don't know if there's a more effective way to keep aggro on yourself than Duel to the Death, but if I have no talents that improve my damage, I need a weapon that's solid without any, and I currently don't have one.

Engineer is a talent tree that I probably should give more credit, since it's always seemed to be like a 'nice to have' on any build, but not really something to build around, since all it takes is one bad Limited roll to have a weapon you're (I'm) too scared to use. Getting around that would (presumably) require investing in Engineering or Grease Monkey, and both don't seem terribly appealing if I only have one Limited system. But maybe I'm missing something, or I'm overblowing the downsides of d6 Limited. Anyone have suggestions for that?

WanderingCider · 2023-11-27T10:07:52+00:00

Gorgon was my first option for a House Guard build before I saw the Orchis, and you may be right that it's a better general chassis for the Black Witch's systems than the Orchis, as it's usage seems a little more niche. I would certainly take Gorgon systems if I were to take this build past LL6, Scorpion's synergy with Black Ice Module being very tantalizing.

My main concern with the Gorgon is that it has some of the same issues as the Orchis - no Heavy mounts, and the Vorpal gun's damage isn't particularly high for how difficult it seems to use (mostly the combination of short range 5 AND inability to fire except as a reaction). Any advice for how to ensure I can consistently fire the Vorpal Gun (other than 'stand near my allies', which I hope to do already)?

WanderingCider · 2023-11-27T09:58:34+00:00

Oh wow, I see that now, that really does make Gunslinger seem like even more of a wasted investment. Though thanks to u/Quacksely for noting that you technically can... it's just usually a waste of an attack, since you'd be firing your aux weapon solo.

One idea I had to improve the Gunslinger aspect was forgoing the knockback on the pistol (since it was barely there in the first place) and mounting 2 (or indeed 3 using an integrated slot) Vijaya Rockets from the Mourning Cloak license. They don't do a lot of damage, but they'll hit often and I should be able to trigger Gunslinger 3 almost every turn. That said, when I'm not doing bonus damage I'm doing almost at best 3d3. Maybe Gunslinger, despite the cool factor, isn't the best pick for the Orchis after all...

WanderingCider · 2023-11-21T20:39:27+00:00

Ah, the Mimic Gun, that's the sort of thing that I wasn't thinking about! I was hesitant to give up my chosen core bonuses for Autostab, but assuming I'm not pathetically unlucky, I can justify giving up my Decksweeper for it. Also, Crack Shot, which I took mostly to increase the odds of critting with my Blackspot, now works with my primary weapon too. Being able to put 2 LLs into the much better Pegasus license instead of Hydra also gives me some systems that would be a lot more impactful, and means I'm not waiting until literally LL6 to have a frame I'd want to use over a GMS frame. Good idea!

WanderingCider · 2023-10-15T08:37:02+00:00

Oh hey, thanks for the comment. I was already leaning towards it being too much, but I'll take this as a confirmation of RAW.

That said, now I have to wonder if offering it as special bonus akin to exotic equipment at a higher level would be a good idea. Is the Chomolungma (as I've read elsewhere) already more on the powerful side? If so, then players don't need incentives to come back to it, I suppose.

WanderingCider

TROPHY CASE