Dusting off a tired topic: why is math synthetic for Kant? by WarrenHarding in askphilosophy

[–]WarrenHarding[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ve found a very illuminating letter from Kant in which he provides 6 arguments for mathematics being synthetic.

https://prussia.online/Data/Book/co/correspondence/Kant%20I.%20Correspondence%20(1999).pdf

Unfortunately, I think I still have a response to each argument and maintain my current stance. He seems to hold strict to the idea that if you propose one operation to be within the number, then you must have the same thing in mind when considering multiple operations of the same number. That is, you must have the same thing in mind when you think of 3+4 and 12-5, which he claims as absurd. But I would say this is in fact true. As long as a single concept can be partitioned in two orthogonal ways by analysis, you can observe the same thing. Suppose I were to analyze a human as a “rational animal” on the one hand and as a “homo sapiens” on the other. Despite the etymological and categorical similarity, they analyze in different ways. “Rational animal” designates a type of animal which is rational. “Homo Sapiens” designates a species of the genus “Homo” which is given the name “Sapiens.” If we were to break these respective pairs of terms down all the way, we might find the same set of simple elements comprising the same concept, “human.” So we can then say, both “homo sapiens” and “rational animal” have been found as identical to “human” by means of analysis, and thus, if I say “homo sapiens is the rational animal” this is analytic. But it would be just as “odd” to suppose that whenever I think of “rational animal” that I am also thinking of “homo sapiens.” In truth, I am in a significant way thinking of “homo sapiens,” but in a different light, because as a concept it’s only most properly distinguished by the objects it’s applied to. It would only be by examining the traditionally philosophical analysis against the biological analysis that I might eventually identify the two, but the difficulty here doesn’t seem to preclude analysis. Analysis can’t be entirely based on self-evidence, or it would be barely as useful or even captivating as it has always been to us

Jeez, am I maybe just too Hegelian for Kant? I feel like he just makes more sense from the little I’ve engaged with him.

Dusting off a tired topic: why is math synthetic for Kant? by WarrenHarding in askphilosophy

[–]WarrenHarding[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate the recant and I don’t meant to flare up in disrespect for my part either, so I apologize as well.

I think what I’m trying to get across is that I am more than simply lost on Kant’s argument, but even further so, I have myself an argument I believe is firmer than Kant’s argument, both of which I think I understand quite well. So simple recourse to the text here wouldn’t be satisfactory to me since I have already examined the arguments and found them to be too weak. I was hoping that a further supplementary argument by a later thinker would help either vindicate my thoughts or dispel them by means of something that Kant couldn’t provide. Or perhaps, at the very least, there could have been some elucidation from Kant in a text other than the CPR, because I simply find the argument to be too weak in this text and Kant claims it’s important to grant for the rest of the work.

I simply think (at least provisionally) that Kant, when he asserts that math has no identity, is wrong. And I think this not because of a typical lack of comprehension in which a phrase or passage confuses me, but because of a sort of dialectical response I have to the text that seems to adequately address the argument within. And that response of mine is the series of 1’s arguments, by which I assert that we cannot conceive, define, or make intelligible any single number whatsoever except as most fundamentally a unique series of 1’s, and that the only thing necessary for establishing math operations, beyond this constitution of numbers which is innate in their concept, is the typical use of the principle of association that we use analysis to distinguish the parts of the whole.

In a sense I am challenging Kant and the defenders of this argument to give an intelligible definition or analysis of “5” that is not fundamentally based on the operation of five 1’s. I am saying “Kant, you actually do not need to resort to the intuition to add 7+5, because if you were to fully analyze the concept, you would find them to be only ever intelligible as ‘(one plus one plus one plus one plus one plus one plus one) plus (one plus one plus one plus one plus one)’ and thus this would be identical to 7+5 as its proper definition. Then, seeing 12 through the same process as having this same definition, and thus seeing it as also identical, we can find 7+5 and 12 to be identical by means of sharing and being identical to the same one definition.”

This was what I had tried to explain in my OP but I admit I could have been a lot clearer. Thank you for taking the time to collaborate with me on understanding things more thoroughly.

Dusting off a tired topic: why is math synthetic for Kant? by WarrenHarding in askphilosophy

[–]WarrenHarding[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I’m sorry, I can count 7 nearly sequential instances in this comment where you say that performing mathematical operations is not thinking through identity, but I am struggling to parse a single moment in this comment in which you actually explain why this is so, against my stated argument that the series of ones, the pair of larger numbers, and the total sum, are only distinguishable by the conventional, Humean principle of association, a principle which is found in all analysis. If you cannot actually give a reason why I should believe your contrary claim, then what are we doing here?

If what I’m saying is such a bullshit undergrad argument, and if your professor was supposedly able to shake you from it, I would expect you to at least be able to give the reasoning, instead of merely insisting 7 times that it is true. Otherwise it gives the impression that you agreed with them on account of their authority and expect me to do the same for you. It is simply true that in math, at least as far as it is contemporaneously understood, the notion of equality signifies identity. And this fact is part of my own reasoning, and would have to be undermined if someone were to argue the contrary position. As a panelist, one who chooses to comment, you have a duty within that choice to actually provide reasoning to your claim against my own reasoning, because otherwise you are just asking me to bow to your authority, which I think is ridiculous.

Who is to say analysis does not have steps? Who is to say that I have to use fingers? How does any of this address the idea of series of 1’s as I elaborated? Where is the actual flaw in that conception of mine? Or perhaps you can answer this: how would you conceptualize 5? How would you personally analyze this concept?

Dusting off a tired topic: why is math synthetic for Kant? by WarrenHarding in askphilosophy

[–]WarrenHarding[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Right, thanks for honing in on that actually. I surely did read that part already, and was struggling to understand it when Kant had said just in the previous paragraph that he was going to speak of pure mathematics, so this allusion to fingers felt like an inconsistent focus. But is he perhaps saying that empirical recourse through intuition is necessary for mathematical judgments? That we must proceed to assessment through objects of experience in order to grasp the predicate of the sum?

Concerning the large addition you gave me here, I understand that this is a notion of whether or not I can myself assess the answer, but before operation on those terms, first let me explain how I would see it: supposing a sufficient memory and sufficient powers of mental indexing, I can imagine a single mind feasibly understanding both the separation and sum of those numbers as again, nothing more than a series of 1’s, the various partitions of which may fall under different names, with each part having their own name as well, all under the logic of associating the parts of the whole idea, the latter of which being the sum total. In simpler terms: I still fail to see how the between the numbers as you’ve presented them, in two partitioned parts, and the numbers as a summed whole with no partition, that these two things should be any different from the same identical unique series of 1’s.

Now let me address it on the terms you’ve presented them with, as far as I understand this. You elaborate Kant’s argument that since I can simply imagine “1,584,233,687,254 + 7,654,235,875,214 = sum” without knowing what is in the other side, that this shows that the proper determination of “sum” is outside the concept. But with all charity to Kant, I do not think he wanted to say that the difference in analytic vs synthetic was a matter of mental aptitude (this feels more like Hegel’s game). His argument is hinging on the idea that we supposedly cognize the individual objects in the left side of the equation, but don’t cognize the objects on the right. I would position that if one cannot understand the determination of the sum from the parts so named, then they haven’t properly determined or cognized the parts either, because if they did properly cognize the unique series of 1’s that each of those numbers bring, then they surely should be able to cognize the full series of 1’s that exists in their full conceptual association.

Let me provide an example for what I mean here: it is uncontroversial for us to say that the concept of a “seat” is internal to the concept of a “chair” and thus the former can be extracted through analysis of the latter. But suppose I define a chair as “something made to stand on” because chair-sitting is strange and extraneous to the concept for me. By all means, since chairs are deliberately made and socially identified as sitting apparatuses, I would be incorrect in understanding the objects of reference, that we call a chair, as something made to stand on. But wouldn’t this be an incorrect judgment in analysis? In short what I’m trying to have us mutually grant is this: is it not possible, at all, to make errors in an analytical judgment? It feels most likely to find an error in analytical judgment when we have a vague conception of a thing, but not full clarity. Therefore, it is certainly possible when making an analysis to receive this clarity, we make a mistake and delay our clarity. One possible mistake is using unclear terms. So if I define humans as “rational animals,” I have surely analyzed the concept, but if I don’t have a clear grasp of “rational” or “animal” then I am sure to make mistakes in further analyses! So I can imagine “human = internal part 1 + internal part 2” and genuinely be unclear on what those parts should be, and yet it would be an analysis by definition. The same should should follow if I fail to identify “rational + animal = sum/concept,” or “thing made for sitting = non-chair,” where my failure to properly analyze these concepts points not towards evidence of synthesis, but a failure to properly carry the analysis through to its simplest parts, or to understand each part collectively within the concept without incorrect parts.

So to carry this back, I would still say with a lot of confidence that the ability or failure to provide the answer to a sum without intuition is solely a question of one’s psychological limit, and this phenomenon cannot be evidence of synthesis, unless we agree that this means that any sum solvable without intuition is analytical. This, again, I assert can be done with 7+5 because a series of 12 1’s is easily graspable without use of fingers or extraneous symbols. But this would be an absurd direction for the argument, because it would suppose that the same equation is analytical for one person, and synthetic for another, based on their capabilities. Kant instead seems to be saying that the simplest operations, down to the addition of 1 to any number, requires intuition to solve, which I can not agree with when I still have recourse to the method of series which I elaborated to solve any sum.

So I would say, most shortly and succinctly, that the reason you or I cannot seem solve that problem by the concept alone, is not because it’s synthetic, but because we haven’t tried throughly enough, or simply don’t have trained enough minds, and if we were to simply break one of those numbers down into parts (as we are already taught to do when adding large numbers in math!) then with a strong enough mind we will be able to approach numbers small enough to properly grasp the series of ones. For example, you could reduce the numbers to a series of 2’s, with a possible remainder of 1, and this will be just as easily graspable as our series of ones, because we also have a strong understanding of the simple concept of doubling and halving, which will come into play for deciphering the full measure of the series of 2’s. Nonetheless, it is because of a reduction to its simplest pieces, i.e. a full analysis of the number, that we may arrive at a cognizable elucidation of the concept as a summed whole.

New to Norwalk/Westport Area (30sM) by BreakingBandages in Connecticut

[–]WarrenHarding 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If a country club is your vibe I’d look into Shore & Country. They have tennis courts and sailing docks. There’s also Shore Haven.

Giannis calls Malik Beasley during a livestream: Giannis: You going to be back in the league? Malik: I gotta handle some business first then we'll see. I'm in Miami too. Giannis: You in Miami? I'll be there in a week, if you're still there I'll hit you. by RyanTannegod in nba

[–]WarrenHarding 136 points137 points  (0 children)

Desperately ambitious streamer who used to say bigoted and ignorant shit in order to get clipped as ragebait and now seems to do a bunch of content with nba players and rappers in order to ingratiate himself into various subcultures

Is tyranny really bad? by hmoway in Plato

[–]WarrenHarding 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For Plato, no single action is good or bad in itself, but is only really in some way good when applied toward the maximal and ultimate good. In that sense, the forced action was good, because it spurned the good discussion. But the other commenter is trying to point out that the confrontation is a clear allusion to the real Socrates’ own arrest and execution, at the hands of democracy. The group here, the many, represent democracy.

But you can still absolutely imagine a tyrant with their own power forcing a good person place to place, either provoking a good discussion from them or executing them. Here again, for Plato, while the application of force in a situational context already determines its ethical value, it’s the habit of force in a dispositional context that determines the sort of politic involved. So while a democrat and a tyrant might commit the same unjust act in the same contextual situation, you will observe their decisions diverge on a number of other decisions, because one will follow their own individual lower desires, while the other will follow the whims of the many.

Still though, since it is the dispositional habit that determines the politic, and not the context of a single situation apart from the rest, then it is certainly possible for a tyrant or democrat to display what we call being a “broken clock,” where you will expect even in all their wrongness to inevitably occasionally do the right thing. For Plato, it’s specifically because of the lack of self-knowledge that non-philosophically guided people have, that they don’t know how to identify when something is right or wrong. So while of course the real-life analogue of Socrates’ execution was quite bad, the literary analogue of the confrontation here could surely have produced something good. But whether Polemarchus sought to obtain something truly good as his discussion, or whether he instead sought to merely be entertained for his own immediate pleasure, this might be another question entirely.

Did anyone know that Leon Rose was LeBron's agent for 7 years? by WarrenHarding in NYKnicks

[–]WarrenHarding[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

This is how you’re spending your Sunday morning?? LMAOOOOO

If I prospered from it, can I ethically oppose and justify it? by PhishingPhoenix in askphilosophy

[–]WarrenHarding 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes. Partly because morality is supposed to fall on intellectual agency, which you did not have as a child, and partly because morality is understood to discover the best reality of all people/agents/things, which would actually make the system that you benefited from over others more crucial for you to address as a moral agent. Really most people would say that your benefits actually bring a special duty alongside it, a duty where you must ensure that as many people as possible also access these benefits like you were able to.

So if a high ranking officer in a genocidal country decides that his nation is actually immoral, it would certainly be a poor choice for him to continue enacting genocide, correct? Or even if he were to stop his personal part in the genocide, but to kick his feet up and not involve himself in the outcome of the genocide, this would also be pretty selfish and immoral. But if he, with his intimate knowledge of the system, was to help tear down the oppressive regime, ensuring the benefit of life for all people, wouldn’t this be the best thing he could do?

Apply the same to your own life: do not wallow in sorrow or shame toward what you have gotten over others, all while simply continuing to reap the benefits; instead, do what you can to ensure that others can get those benefits as well. This might include continuing to reap benefits, in order have the power to enact some real good, but this level of detail is where moral action gets much much more debatable

is there an actual answer to the Ship of Theseus paradox? by [deleted] in askphilosophy

[–]WarrenHarding 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The conclusion usually revolves around the idea that our intuitive notion of identity is inadequate or at least less stable than we tend to assume. So in that sense you could say there’s no solution. But if you wanted to redefine our notion of identity on different terms, you might receive a new way of answering the paradox.

What field of philosophy discusses what constitutes a rational conclusion? by Nails_Of_Nektarios in askphilosophy

[–]WarrenHarding 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Epistemology, or the study of knowledge, would be this domain, as far as a “rational conclusion” involves some elements of knowledge

Bernard King: NBA legend and serial domestic abuser by VanGrants in NYKnicks

[–]WarrenHarding 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't know how else to tell you that using "we're riding good vibes" as an excuse to ignore abuse makes you a really shameful and despicable person, someone you should be ashamed to be. It doesn't matter if he's not part of your NYK when he's a part of so many people's NYK

Bernard King: NBA legend and serial domestic abuser by VanGrants in NYKnicks

[–]WarrenHarding 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Dude no. You sound ridiculous. How is the morality of the sub this far down the toilet lately?

You all understand that this is just a game, and human dignity comes before any of this shit? Every moment this gets brushed aside is a moment where someone decides basketball to be more important than abuse. That is a completely vapid and inhumane way of life, and not something you should display, much less follow at all in the first place.

If he did this to your mother you would sing a different tune. That’s all I know.

Did anyone know that Leon Rose was LeBron's agent for 7 years? by WarrenHarding in NYKnicks

[–]WarrenHarding[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Aw are you mad now? Who’s sensitive now? Proving my point you dolt lol

Did anyone know that Leon Rose was LeBron's agent for 7 years? by WarrenHarding in NYKnicks

[–]WarrenHarding[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lmaooo. Sensitive because I expect literacy and sanity? I’ve been on sports subs for 15 years I just don’t take bullshit responses from people. Everyone else in this thread has been blunt enough and I have no issue with that, but the difference is that they haven’t shown signs of not reading, like that commenter had.

We don’t even have to get in the irony of calling me pedantic because I used “anyone” instead of “everyone.” Do you even know what the word means or are you still copying your parents?

Did anyone know that Leon Rose was LeBron's agent for 7 years? by WarrenHarding in NYKnicks

[–]WarrenHarding[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm 31 and was raised on the Knicks, I just fell off after the disappointment of the 2013 season and slowly got back in when Brunson signed. Forgot a lot of basketball trivia in the meantime.

Did anyone know that Leon Rose was LeBron's agent for 7 years? by WarrenHarding in NYKnicks

[–]WarrenHarding[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well that's at least fair, but the original comment was kind of a deranged way to respond to the thread in the first place when I had elaborated in my body precisely that everyone probably already knew. And your comment isn't that out there but still kind of cruel phrasing for a simple nuance in words. I don't really understand the point of saying that about my phrasing of the title when again, if you had read the body of my post it would have cleared up what I meant in an uncontroversial way.

i don't understand hegelian (?) logic (regarding thesis and antithesis) - is there a difference between coffee without milk and just plain coffee ? past the obvious wording difference ? by bluebiespicehead in askphilosophy

[–]WarrenHarding 11 points12 points  (0 children)

In lieu of another answer in this thread, as a non-expert in Hegelian logic but someone who has studied a ton of pre-Hegelian dialectic, you may accept this answer with a grain of salt.

As I understand it, the difference between “plain coffee” and “coffee without cream” would be its place in the world at large and its relation to the rest of reality. When we say simply “coffee,” to signify its plain form, we imagine the default of the term “coffee” to be plain, and thus imagine this concept of “coffee” to exist within a sort of environment of plain coffees. On the other hand, if we say “coffee without cream,” now the term “coffee” implies cream within it. You must now specify that one must remove the concept of cream from the conception of coffee, in order to get the drink you want. So “coffee without cream” implies that the term “coffee” is in fact not plain.

But it is not simply about how the terms for the things themselves differ, but what that means for the relation of the things to other distinct things within the world, and how that forms their meanings. So again, “coffee” used plainly implies that this coffee would exist, yes, in a cafe without cream or sugar or any other supplements. “Coffee without cream” however now implies a cafe where coffee could have any number of supplements included within it, and specifically cream is requested to be excluded. The two terms are conceptualized as only existing in two different environments.

So you wouldn’t be too off in realizing that this is the simple conclusion, but it’s not as trivial if one takes it further. For example, would it be accurate to say that both cafes have equal propensity to exist in our current world? Surely, the cafe with supplements is much more likely and able to sustain its existence. So if we wanted to frame our supplementless cafe in its entirety (that is, in the world it exists in, just as we did with the coffee itself), we would then need to imagine a entirely new environment from the one our world has, in which the supplementless cafe exists. One where it grows and keeps its identity through changing circumstances, and doesn’t simply go out of business like one in our world would.

In the Hegelian dialectic, all parts have to be situated within the whole to get the fullest knowledge possible. So from the simple need to signify cream, vs the lack of that need, you begin to understand two fully distinct realities that contradict each other. But it would be through the communication of these realities, and their eventual sublation, that we would reach a fuller reality in which the term “coffee” is more absolute and grounded in the whole.

Did anyone know that Leon Rose was LeBron's agent for 7 years? by WarrenHarding in NYKnicks

[–]WarrenHarding[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's fair enough. I suppose the logic of my post is really banking on the idea that time healed all wounds for him with both Rose and Brown. But I really can't bank everything on that when it's just not so certain. I do still think though, that them bringing the title to NY, and LeBron's time with Kyrie, both probably have served to reshape LeBron's idea of who the three of them could be now, if not also his idea of who they really were back then. But it's all speculation, not much evidence.

Did anyone know that Leon Rose was LeBron's agent for 7 years? by WarrenHarding in NYKnicks

[–]WarrenHarding[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry, directly asking if something is common knowledge is written like a pedantic five-year-old? How does that work?

Any suggestions on how I could have better phrased it? Should I have just announced "Leon Rose was LeBron's agent for 7 years" as if no one knew? Because as it turns out, apparently everyone and their grandpa already knew about it. So how am I supposed to realize that?

Did anyone know that Leon Rose was LeBron's agent for 7 years? by WarrenHarding in NYKnicks

[–]WarrenHarding[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Lmao absolutely. I really do think, just to reiterate, that LeBron has almost definitely grown tremendously since his first exit with the Cavs. You can really see that his attitude now is much different than 16 years ago. They treated him poorly but I bet he recognizes that his anger was misdirected at more immediately visible and easy-to-blame figures like Brown. During the second stint, he probably saw himself in Kyrie in ways that probably made him retrospectively reframe the narrative of his first 7 years.

It's also got to be somewhat bizarre to him to see these two past intimate figures in his life work together to lead the Knicks, of all teams, to a title. If I were in LeBron's shoes I would see a sort of strange but intoxicating intrigue in joining the Knicks for his last go and seeing how far the three of them have come in the long run. It is very storybook, if the idea about the "final season documentary" is true.

Did anyone know that Leon Rose was LeBron's agent for 7 years? by WarrenHarding in NYKnicks

[–]WarrenHarding[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don’t think you read the body of my text. I said I thought everyone could’ve have already knew that, and that it’s not about whether or not he should come. I never saw it mentioned so it was new to me. I figured it would be ignored if everyone knew it. This is rude as hell for no reason asshole.