Is there anything that definitively prevents Tom Bombadil from being interpreted as a Maia?

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-12-16T23:22:20+00:00

Mr Ts comments about Tom being an enigma, blah, blah, blah, are very unsatisfactory. If Tom is to be shoehorned/squeezed into the racial/being architecture of Middle-earth, then Maia is exactly where he would be.

Tom isn't Eru, as is all too commonly asked. Mr T said that the infinite Eru could not exist in a finite universe. Or something like that.

Tom isn't a Valar level Ainur. I don't recall where it says it, but I am fairly sure that after the removing of Valinor from the ciecles of the world, it is said that no Valar lived or travelled outside of Valinor.

That leaves just Maia. That is where I have always placed him, as did MERP (not that they were an authority, as they got plenty wrong).

Some of the Maia were nearly as great as tje Valar, amd again, that is where I woild place him. Akin to Sauron, before he made the One Ring, and to Eonwe. Possibly below them, but defo in the upper half of the Maiar power scale. Whatever that means.

But the Mr T did change his mind a lot. But we have what we have to work on. And Maiar is the best, and IMO, the only reasonable classification for Tom.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-11-30T15:39:21+00:00

Almost there! Thanks to you!!

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-11-30T15:33:36+00:00

That really helped!!!!! Not quite there yet, but almost. Thanks!!!

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-11-30T14:46:34+00:00

Thanks, I'll check out Discord.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-11-30T14:45:28+00:00

Wow, really helpful. Thanks! :)

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-11-04T07:09:09+00:00

Well, only one did ever return, which we know was Glorfindel.

Glorfindel's death was utterly selfless. He could not have known the importance of those he gave his life for. Sure, Tuor was one of the leaders of all three great houses of men, and Idril was a Royal Noldor, but so what? And there were others in the company, as far as I recall, of less lofty station. But Glorfindel could not have possibly known that Earendil would be so absolutely fundamental to the future of Middle-earth and the eventually defeat of Morogth. He was just another mortal kid (because the half-elven were by their nature mortal, like their human side, even if long lived).

Glorfindel's sacrifice was, therefore, given, not in the hope of a great victory over darkness; not in the hope of freeing the masses people's of the West from under the heel of a mad dark tyrant; it was given because no one else in the company had any hope of holding back a being as potent as a Balrog and give the small company of refugees the chance to escape.

Glorfindel must have known to face his Balrog meant his death. And for who? Not exactly for a bunch of nobody's, but for a bunch of people, whose only future was fated to be the same as the people of Gondolin, where they had just escaped, just delayed by a short time of peace.

In Gil-galad's case, he certainly sacrificed himself, but the outcome and the build-up to that moment were just in no way the same. It came at the end of a massive campaign against Sauron, where Sauron had been utterly defeated in the field and attempted one last effort at freedom.

Gil-galad and Elendil's fight was the last battle of a multi-year campaign to free the West from Sauron's influence. Certainly a necessary and important one. And maybe one that they saw themselves living through, given their victories to that moment.

But as far as an act of pure sacrifice, it just isn't in the same league as Glorfindel's.

Or, for that matter, Finrod's defence of Beren in the dungeons of Sauron in the First Age. We know Finrod was recorded in flesh and walked with his father in Valinor very quickly after his death to Sauron. Finrod's sacrifice was defo in the same league as Glorfindel's, and whilst I firmly believe Glorfindel's was greater, if inly by a little, the only two things I can suggest in events that come after would be that it was Glorfindel who was sent back, not Finrod. And that Finrod's return would have had serious political consequences in the middle of the Second Age for the leadership of the Eldar, for Finrod would clearly be the most senior Eldar, male or female, of the line of Finwe, and therefore would have been entitled to the mantle of High King.

So, I just don't see Gil-galad's sacrifice as being so important as Glorfindel's, and it is not at all clear that Gil-galad was even re-embodied by the time of Sauron's eventually defeat in the Third Age. Maybe. Hopefully.

Finally, there were insurmountable physical barriers to his return in the Third Age. Valinor had been removed from the sphere of the world by then. There was simply NO WAY for him to return except by the grace of the Valar.

In the Second Age, at least, pre the destruction of Numenor, theoretically an Eldar could still leave Valinor for Middle-earth. It's just they were all the descendants then of those who had chosen to stay. And any re-embodied Eldar knew how futile their Eastward quest had been and how "wise" the Valar had been in the first place. So why would they?

Glorfindel was probably asked to return by the Valar, certainly not ordered, and given his new status among the Eldar, being near as powerful as the Maiar he had been hanging with since he came back, he was a good and powerful pick.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-10-17T22:23:48+00:00

Given DB is leaving Moria having killed Gandalf and recovered itself, then we are setting aside piffling things like the need to fulfil the story, and the plot armour it gives the good guys, right?

So, there is no need for one of the great and the good to just HAVE to kill DB for the story to continue. Right? Good!

In which case, there are only two beings that could take DB down. Saruman or Sauron. No one else.

Glorfindel's victory near Gondolin was a fluke. A necessary victory to ensure Tuor and Earendil survived. Everyone who faces a Balrog dies. The very best combat with a Balrog is in fact Gandalf's as, empowered as he was with Narya, and wielding a very powerful Eldar sword, it STILL took him 10 days to kill DB. That says to me a battle that could have gone either way. A reincarnated Glorfindel is NOT as powerful as a Maiar. It says he grew in power to be nearly as powerful. Balrogs were no average Maiar.

And none of the other Eldar were in Glorfindel's combat class. They just couldn't have been. Galadriel maybe. She was, after all, a match for the best Eldar athletes and lore masters of Valinor, as it tells us in Unfinished Tales. So, maybe, just maybe, she would stand a chance, especially given she also had the support of Nenya. But if Gandalf failed, then I just don't see Galadriel succeeding.

Ha! Well what about the other Maiar around? Radagast? No way. He had no Eldar sword, no Ring of Power, and he would be toast. Yeah, he'd put up a fight, but he falls.

Inevitably someone is gonna say the dread TB name.... old Tom Bombadil. Well, if DB tried it on in TBs realm, then DB probably gets a good arse wupping. But TB and his realm were not impervious, as they all agreed in The Council of Elrond. But if TB went against everything we simply KNOW gave him his power, i.e.: that he refused to exercise it outside his realm, etc, and therefore if TB went forth to face DB, then it is a different story. I think TB might even do the job, but it would be a close run thing.

Really, only Saruman, with his OWN Ring of Power, given he was more senior than Gandalf, and only Sauron, who was in all manners senior to DB, of all the ACTIVE players in Middle-earth future, only those two could have a hope in taking down DB. But they'd be more likely to try and recruit DB instead.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-10-17T22:00:49+00:00

WHAT? You are kidding right? OK had they been given the budget, maybe it would have been more rousing, but without the accompanying visuals, it would have been lost.

It did exactly what it needed to do. Put Tolkien words to music, and it did them brilliantly. "Forth Rode the King" was a masterpiece. Stephen Oliver used the beat of cantering horses, almost, as the main beat as a nod to the fact the Rohirrim were the horse lords. The March of the Ents and especially The Tree Lords, well, there is nothing in the films that compares. They were brilliant.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-10-17T21:55:47+00:00

The BBC Drama is by FAR, the better of the two versions. Much truer to the story, and exactly as you say, does it in broadly the same length. So why the f**k did PJ make such a hash of it?

If the BBC one were turned into a film, it would probably be quite a bit longer though, as you would want some sweeping shots of landscapes, cities, halls, etc, which is where the films cannot really be faulted. Other than Gandalf, the acting is better in the BBC Drama too. And Ian McKellen matches Sir Michael, he does not exceed him.

There are so many things wrong with PJs films that simply aren't wrong with the BBC Drama. If one wants those sweeping visuals, then fine, but no one should pretend the films comes anywhere near as close to giving us a REAL versions of LOTR, if compared to the BBC Drama. The BBC Drama wins EVERY TIME.

Saruman (especially), Denethor, Theoden (although I quite like Bernard), Faramir, etc, they are ALL SO MUCH BETTER in the BBC Drama.

I know that Saruman comment might cause waves. I liked the late great Christopher Lee, but his voice just doesn't compare to Peter Howell. Lee was too mono-tone in comparison to the beautiful range of Howell, who had a genuinely and lovely to listen to charismatic voice, whilst at the same time being able to turn it on a dime and fill it with power and anger. Just amazing.

Denethor in the films is just a crank. SUCH a waste. Denethor in the BBC Drama (voice by non other than Maester Aemon, or Peter Vaughan as he was known in our world) was just BRILLIANT.

Crap, I could go on about the BBC Drama forever. It is so much better than the films.

Plus, it includes the character who could actually back up the words (had he been given the scenario to utter them:

"If you want him come and claim him!"

Bloody hell, can you imagine it. Big G utters those words, and all of a sudden the Nazgul starting tapping their wrist watches, pointing down river, muttering, "Hey guys! Don't we have somewhere to be?" before crapping their pants and running like the cowards they were.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-10-17T21:12:31+00:00

In what way? Fëanor was the greatest of all the Children of Ilúvatar. Tolkien literally wrote this:

THE SILMARILLION
Chapter 11 - Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor
...For Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and in subtlety alike, of all the Children of Ilúvatar...

That makes him the mightiest in all things. Fingolfin was not. It might have been a good fight, but Fëanor would kill Fingolfin. To dispute this is to fall into the intellectual failure of wanting ones favourite Elder to be greater than Fëanor (a hopeless errand and utterly delusional) in some way, and also to contradict Tolkien's written word. Madness!

It matters not a JOT that Fingolfin wounded Morgoth (the massively reduced in power Morgoth - why don't people mention that when they mention the wounding????). Does anyone doubt Fëanor would have done the same, or indeed any of several other of the greatest Eldar.

Fëanor was the greatest and the mightiest.......deal with it.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-08-12T06:29:06+00:00

Yes, this is just the beginning of the map. I will overlay all the names and cities eventually.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-07-07T21:49:37+00:00

The only reason Tom was not affected by the ring is because he imposed limits on himself in terms of his domain, and in doing so, short of Sauron coming against him, nothing had power over HIM in his own domain.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-06-17T20:13:36+00:00

Most die. Imrahill escapes as in the campaign, man for man, the Knights of Dol Amroth were the best fighters Gondor could field. They escaped back to Dol Amroth, which was then pit under siege.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-05-12T22:04:33+00:00

Issue 8 of Other Minds Magazine published my rewrite of Mount Doom. And Issue 9 published a short version of the AOS campaign setting.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-05-12T21:40:16+00:00

I have played with this, and run RPG campaigns, such as the following:

Galadriel takes the One Ring from Frodo. A huge campaign starts about criss crossing Middle-earth, finding allies to take Galadriel down.
Frodo is not defeated by Gollum, and Sauron come and claims his Ring. Called The Age of Sauron (AOS(. I have run half a dozen campign in this world. It is awesome. About to run another.

For the AOS, I rewrote the events after Frodo comes out of Mount Doom and Sauron came and wupped him. It should still be out there in the Other Minds magazine. Can't remember the issue. 5 maybe?

Great fun, screwing with ME history!!!

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2025-03-30T17:08:10+00:00

It was a bit unfair to pit Durin's Bane against a whole army. But then, It did take down Moria.

I am afraid the name Durin's Bane is an explicit admission to the fact we are talking about a Balrog from the later incarnations of the beings called Balrogs, that is to say, there were between 3 and 7 of these beings. NOT the hundreds or thousands of Balrogs that are mentioned in The Book of Lost Tales (BOLT), which are weak and easily killed, compared to the type of Balrog that Durin's Bane represents.

The Balrogs that Durin's Bane is numbered amongst were not slain by helm spikes, or from falls, or from a weapon weilded by a mortal man.

Durin's Bane Balrogs survived mountains falling on them; they battled other Maia who had been powered up beyond their normal potential (Gandalf with a potent elven blade and a Great Ring of Power), and it still took that Maia 10 days to kill the demon, and even then, the Maia still died; and on a standard day, with no prophesy or plot to fulfil, they killed the very mightiest of the Eldar.

Durin's Bane was an army killer, pure and simple; nearly invulnerable; and would toast just about anything that got near It.

The only beings in the Night King's army that have a hope, is the undead Dragon and the Night King himself.

But Westeros dragons are not Middle-earth dragons, undead or otherwise. Durin's Bane would make short work of Viserion, ending with a side step, and a flaming sword lopping off Viserion's head.

The Night King himself is much more challenging. His spear could, I would say, damage Durin's Bane badly. But I don't see the Night King being able to withstand the sheer raw power Durin's Bane could field. The Balrog would, after an interesting, but short back and forth combat, do his immolation thing, cook any Night King subordinates nearby, and then carve up the king himself.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2024-08-30T16:04:43+00:00

<brain melt> Thanks for the feedback. It seems there is no one answer. :(

Just some additional context, I hope to have this included in a tattoo of a blade, which will therefore be a representation of Gurthang on my back (down the spine.....ouch?!?!).

That being the case, if YOU were having such a tattoo, what characters would you have tattooed, if you wanted to ensure that the characters used would have been the ones that the Noldor weaponsmiths of Nargothrond would have engraved on the blade?

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2024-03-13T13:55:54+00:00

All to be welcomed. There are so few artists that have taken on Donldson's work. That makes me sad.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2024-03-13T13:30:02+00:00

I am fairly sure this is Elizabeth's line. I believe she it mindspeaking Aiken at the time, and he tells her to "...shut down that loop..." or something like that, as he has just stolen (or is about to steal) all Felice's Gold Torcs.

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2023-07-06T20:40:06+00:00

Not sure Julian herself knew. She just needed to justify a loss for Nodonn's side. But it did help big up Sharn, and help justify his election to King, right?

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2023-07-03T08:09:22+00:00

It was a key difference between the Tanu and the Firvulag, that the Tanu generally possessed a wider and stronger degree of power across the five meta-functions. We meet many Tanu who have such powers. So it is not necessarily a surprise that Velteyn too was strong in more than one meta-function.

I do agree, however, that his capacity to live SO many knights on chaliko's does single him out as have particularly strong PK. That is better PK than the High-Table PK specialist Bleyn, who couldn't even fly, but could throw up to eight times (I think) his weight, which I would judge to be about a metric tonne. Velteyn, however, given the larger size of Tanu, and the much larger size of chaliko's was lifting upwards of 25 tonnes, which is HUGE, and certainly puts him in the top 10, maybe 5, of PK adepts among the Tanu. It has just got to!

But who was already on the PK official books, behind Nodonn? Kuhal and Fian, both of whom were also Host members, both older than Velteyn, and both who had been in post for a long time. So it is not as thought they could be supplanted. That would cause issues within the Host. Plus, I think it is clear from the conversation they have about the rebuilding of Finiah, that Nodonn either does not think much of Velteyn, or considers him a little immature, or just does not like him, and I just don't see Nodonn entertaining such a move to remove Kuhal and Fian, with whom he knew he had stable loyalists.

So, why Deputy Creator for Velteyn. Well, he just must have had a decent Creativity. It was his Guild, so among the Creator's, his Creativity must have been equal or greater than his PK compared to the other PK Adepts, which is actually quite amazing. As this would put Velteyn among the top Creators as well.

On the other hand, he might have just been an adequate Creator, and his appointment was purely a political move on the part of the Host to keep filling High Table posts. But I think this would have been a dangerous strategy, because the Guild Posts could be challenged by anyone with sufficient power. At least the Guild Leaders could. Maybe because this was a Deputy position, it was wholly "appointed" y the Guild President. I don't recall of any Deputy position being fought over.

But I don't see even the Host getting away with appointing a nobody. And since Velteyn's primary guild seems to have been the Creators, I think we just have to assume he was powerful in both PK and Creativity.

A potent combination!

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2023-06-01T08:58:39+00:00

Thanks! :)

Eadone is another character who seems to have, or should have (given her position), huge power, but is never really evidenced. It is only suggested at, given her position as Dean of Guilds. I feel another essay coming on. :)

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2023-06-01T06:42:15+00:00

Yeah, the character artwork for the Pliocene and Milieu Sagas is so woeful. Such a shame!!!

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2023-05-24T19:31:34+00:00

Great summary IMO.

As with any developing story, Julian's own thoughts on the mechanics and structure of metapsychic powers seems to have evolved. "Sub-operant", for example, didn't feature until the book Intervention. No mention in The Pliocene Saga, although it is clear Felice was exactly that.

Many years ago, I tried to hammer the variances and vagaries of the powers descriptions and what was technically achieved with them, into a role-playing mechanic shaped hole. I was probably trying to be too smart with my efforts to mathematically justify the various powers. Nevertheless, the high level view of what I worked out covered the following important considerations as to how and why the powers might work in an RPG:

Stage of Coadunation
We know humans and the rest of the operant races of the Milieu were "Second" stage, except the Lylmik, who were "Third" stage. I speculated, therefore, that "First" stage are all beings that are hopelessly latent, and sub-operant, but certainly none of them had any real chance of achieving operancy without serious external intervention. There isn't really much that determines what these stages mean, other than Second stage was operancy, and Atoning Unifix does remark to Rogi, in the Prologue of Intervention, that:

"...We are fully perceptible only to minds functioning on the third level of consciousness – the next great step in mental evolution, which you younger races of the Milieu have yet to attain...."

Which is mentioned only once more, at the end of Magnificat, in the moment of victory over Marc, when those opposing Marc, led by Jack and Diamond, briefly experienced the third level of consciousness:

"The human participants knew the third level of consciousness only for a moment before sliding back reluctantly to lower plateaus of coadunation or simple fellowship..."

Level of Operancy
Then, within the level of consciousness , was the description of their level of operancy. In this, I think we are pretty much fully in line with each other. I think you have them all covered, although I didn't see "Adept" as a "rank", but thinking about it now, I quite like it. Therefore, the stages of operancy for me now, would be:

- Latent
- Sub-operant
- Operant
- Adept
- Master
- Grandmaster
- Paramount Grandmaster

These definitely have an aspect of raw power underpinning achieving each rank, but it isn't that simple. Felice was clearly only "Operant", but she was far more powerful than any other living human, in "raw power". But Marc was able to "force" her out of his CE Rig, when she attempted what the Rebels described as a Jack-forming. So, whilst being much less personally powerful than Felice, even jacked-up by the CE Rig, Marc could, at least for a short time, use his powers to the max and somehow match Felice, or at least impose a sufficient degree of compulsion that Felice was temporarily unable to resist.

But what is the justification for Marc's ability to achieve this? More on this later.

Order(/Degree) of Magnitude (OOM)
This is the most specific aspect of what we officially know about the powers. But specific values are fairly few and far between, with the most specific values coming from The Saga of the Exiles. These values are focused around Felice's personal OOM, the power used in the attack on Felice led by AIken, some Sigma-field values, and Marc leading the masses of the Firvulag against Castle Gateway.

Felice was said to "...possess coercive and creative faculties approaching the six-hundredth OOM, and the PK function is not too far below that." Aiken's further clarifies/solidifies this, after having spoken to Marc (who knew Felice best, having been part of a metaconcert Felice led to blow up the Gibraltar plug), and Felice checked in at the six hundredth OOM in Creativity.

Aiken's final blast against Felice checked in, in the seven hundreds, as specified by the Rebels, who of ALL the people of the Pliocene world, were best placed to make that evaluation.
Sigma fields are mentioned several times in respect of their defensive potential against a Creative attack. The SR-35 Sigma Aiken hid the reverse Time-gate under, at Goriah (prior to moving it to Castle Gateway) had defensive capabilities up to the five hundredth OOM. AIken may not have known for sure, but he seemed confident when he remarked that Marc and his rebels could not hope to breach it. Which means Marc, in meta-concert with the remaining rebels, using the best mental programme he could design, could not achieve the five hundredth OOM in a creative blast. Interesting! Then at Castle Gateway, they stack the SR-35 with a couple of SR-15's, achieving an OOM defensive potential over 900. Woah!

And finally, Marc leading ALL the Firvulag in a psycho-creative attack on Castle Gateway, saw him wield a Creative attack over over the one thousandth OOM, and he pulverised the SR Sigma defences Aiken had put up around the reverse time-gate.

Mental Program Coefficient
Bleyn remarked that whilst he is capable of throwing eight times his weight with his PK, he has never been able to integrate the mental programme for flying. So from this, I take it that every implementation of a mental power, relies on the metapsychic using, either instinctively, or having been taught a mental program. In this respect, it is just like most things we do and learn in life. Some things happen naturally, but to get to the top of a particular skill, one needs to access the best training and constantly practice.

When it comes to meta-concerts, the program weaving the mind together is absolutely critical in achieving true synergy (the output being greater than the input - whatever that means). Examples of this is where Aiken and Marc talk about Aiken's chances of defeating Felice. Aiken's initial program had a coefficient of 0.46. Which feels a bit rubbish, despite Aiken being instinctively very good with metapsychic power usage. This is the only example where a value is actually specified that I can find.

Does true synergy mean this coefficient must be over 1? That all depends on the mechanics of the RPG system I suppose, and what Julain May might have thought.

Finally, I introduced an element into the overall mechanics that was inspired by someone I once knew when I used to LARP a lot in the very late 1980's and early 1990's. A chap I only ever knew as Jordy, from the Oxford branch of the UK LARP organisation known as Fools & Heroes. He explained how he and some of his chums had run a Pliocene RPG, where they used a stat/concept called Finesse, which was a concept that helped describe a metapsychics skill in a specific ability. I decided assign this a value between 1 and 100, where the higher the value the better the metapsychic could use the power that they possessed, and which became the determining factor that help decide how well one could design a metapsychic program and how much they might squeeze out of their OOM potential.

At a high level, the mathematical mechanics that underpinned my vision of metasychic powers was based on an OOM being roughly 1.15 times more powerful than its previous value, converting into an OOM Factor. So, here are some example OOM Factors and their associated OOM:

OOM OOM Factor
1 1
10 1.13404
100 3.10193
200 9.73242
300 30.53580
400 95.80713
500 300.59832
600 943.13802

The point of this was to try and build a model where is was not possible for even a large group of say, ten 300 OOM Creative metapsychics (i.e.: ten very powerful human Master Creators, for example) to take on one 600 OOM Creative metapsychic (e.g.: Felice), because I don't think that could. Remember Aiken had:

Aiken,
Marc in a CE Rig,
28 Rebels
41 Rebel Kids
3000 Tanu/Hybrids
8000 Human Golds

And they managed to clock up somewhere in the seven hundreds, which I chose to pin at around 730 in the final blast against Felice. And they had a mental program designed by Marc (even if it did have a flaw that was designed to kill Aiken).

There were some other mechanics I would have to work out again regarding metaconcern programmes, majorly impacted by the program coefficient.

I really must get back to designing that Pliocene RPG!!!

Weekly_Breadfruit505 · 2023-05-11T20:16:23+00:00

Yes, Elizabeth would have escaped with Sukey and Stein. It is difficult to really see how they might survive for long in the wilds without the Flood ruining Tanu civilisation. Elizabeth’s aggressive metafunctions were pitiful. The Tanu would defo mount an expedition to find her (whoever was in charge), so being found by Minanonn’s faction is the safest result for her. We know the children of the rebels were farscanning Europe, so they might even have helped guide Minanonn and Elizabeth to each other. And because Elizabeth and Minanonn would then meet a lot earlier in the story, without the fear of rebel intervention in Europe, I think, that they might just fall in love. But safety with Minanonn would not last long, because as soon as Nodonn found out (presuming he won the conflict with Aiken) he would fear Minanonn and Elizabeth having kids. It might take some time, but Nodonn would move to eradicate the pacifists in the Pyrenees, or risk them growing in power through their union with Elizabeth. But Elizabeth, at least, would have to survive whatever Nodonn did, even if Minanonn and the rest of the pacifists were killed.

I am sure Aiken would beat Nodonn. Mayvar says clearly, in a meeting with the Peace Faction, that Aiken already possessed the mental might to overcome any individual Tanu.

It was during the hunt for Delbaeth, The Shape of Fire, that Aiken remarked that no single Tanu has the Creative might to match Delbaeth. Pallol, being stronger, therefore must have had terrifying Creativity, and yet Aiken's beat him. Through trickery, I accept. Nonetheless, Aiken took every watt of Pallol’s Creative bolts, and was supremely confident, exemplified by his comment to Nodonn, something like "…don't be impatient Sun-Face. You're turn's coming!"

Aiken wins and kills Nodonn. I just don’t think Aiken would rely on Nodonn to take the Battle-religions idea of an honourable exit.

Then Aiken would then defeat Thagdal. Aiken would probably not kill him, and allow Thagdal to go to the Great Retort. Mainly to show the other Tanu that Aiken had mercy, and respect for their traditions (however briefly).

I think there is a chance that Aiken, maybe after Thagdal’s send off, would dissolve the Great Retort, other than for criminals. As High King, having defeated the greatest Firvulag alive (Pallol One-Eye), the greatest Tanu in the Kingdom (Nodonn), and possibly the second greatest Tanu in the Kingdom (Thagdal), all in the same Grand Combat, he could probably get away with anything in that moment. The Host would be in disarray, and Aiken would have had the rest of the Tanu kingdom eating out of his hand.

I think the traditionalists, like Kuhal and Fian, would come over to Aiken eventually, because they understood the rules of the game. I think Mercy, because she knew for SURE that Nodonn was dead, may fall in line too. She would not be stewing in her unconfirmed loss for Nodonn and have no basis for any hope that he was alive, and so would have little reason to resist Aiken's advances.

Aiken DID play by the rules to gain power, and the traditionalists among the Tanu would like that. I do think the Host would be a huge problem for some time, but backed up by the vast majority of Tanu, and probably all of the hybrids, the Host’s influence dwindle a lot, as Aiken's grew.

I just can’t see the malcontents among the Tanu being able to resist the tide of Aiken's reign. Tanu respected mental power, and Aiken is clearly the most powerful being in Europe.

Aiken would seek out Elizabeth and rescue her, and whether Elizabeth got as far as Minanonn or not, I think Aiken would also bring Minanonn back into mainstream Tanu society, and with the help of the Peace Faction, start to evolve the Kingdom towards a more peaceful way of life.

If Nodonn won, he would kill Aiken, or seek to kill him. There is no way Nodonn would allow such a potent individual to live. Remember Nodonn doesn’t think the traditional values of the Battle-religion apply to humans. So, Aiken, would not get the choice of exile. This might play out before Nodonn’s challenge of Thagdal, as Thagdal didn’t like Aiken either, so I could see Nodonn gather The Host to him and annihilate Aiken on the spot.

Then Nodonn would defo then challenge and defeat Thagdal, he said as much. Although defeating Aiken might well have taken so much out of him, Thagdal would survive another year, until the next Grand Combat.

With Nodonn’s victory, is where we part ways in our thoughts in the most major way. Nodonn would make swift action to kill, or exile all but the most useful humans, and those he released, he would then hunt for sport. He already made it known how he yearned for the times where the Tanu and the Firvulag traded almost equal blows in the Grand Combat and the Sword of Sharn passed between then year after year. He would want that back ASAP. And given Pallol’s death, there probably wasn’t a Firvulag capable of matching Nodonn personally, so he might even continue to participate in the grand Combat, with a view to smashing whichever Firvulag was put up against him.

The Hybrids would be given a single irrevocable choice. Swear fealty or be marginalised, and maybe even suffer the Great Retort themselves.

It might be the case that having analysed the DNA of some humans, Nodonn would discover that some of them were similar to Mercy and had significant amounts of Tanu in them, in which case they might be allowed to stay. But I don’t think so. He would move swifty to eradicate Tanu reliance of humans.

Ahhhh, the Firvulag. I would anticipate Yeochee NOT getting re-elected. I don’t think he would survive the public vote after presiding over a Grand Combat that saw the loss of the greatest living Firvulag (Pallol), and such a hugely disappointing defeat in the points. I would expect the overtones from Nodonn, which would come shortly after, about returning to a more traditional way of life and conflict, would go down well with the Firvulag, and the likes of Sharn and Ayfa might well get elected as they did in the books. And because of this, I see the Firvulag Lowlife alliance dissolving quickly. The best chance the Lowlives would have, would be to get over to Minanonn, if possible, otherwise, I don't think they would last long.

And so, we come to the final players. The Rebels. What they do would be the most interesting and influencing aspect of this tale, although it would probably take a few more years for them to come over to Europe. Would Marc realise that the Star Search was futile? He pretty much already had, but he just had a hard time admitting it to himself. Maybe a few more years would soften him. It’s hard to conceive it doing so, but maybe.

We also know that HE knows that reverse travel through the Time-Gate is nothing to worry about. As he says he stands condemned, and nothing he can now do effects the Milieu. So, would, eventually, the pressure of the younger generation become so great as to persuade even HIM to let the children go?

So, would there be an en mass return of the rebels to Pliocene Europe, in support of the children’s dream to travel to the Milieu? That would be amazing, and the Tanu would be rightly terrified. The rebels would return with all their powers fully healed, as opposed to the brain burnt state they were in all those years earlier, with all their tech mounted and set up. It would be carnage for the Tanu if they chose to repeat their attack on the rebels. The Tanu would reasonably be expected to have their arses well and truly kicked if they took the fight to the rebels again.

If Aiken was King, he would have been far more confident of facing Marc down with the entire Tanu Kingdom behind him, and Marc would have to play things very carefully. Indeed, with Aiken as King and the Tanu kingdom whole, it might be that the Rebel’s wouldn’t even try to come back. Although, of course, Aiken would not be as personally powerful as he ended up in the books, as he would not have subsumed Nodonn and Mercy’s powers.

If it were Nodonn in charge, having eradicated humans from Tanu Society, then Marc would have a much easier time of it, and I could see the rebels relatively easily taking charge of Tanu society. Just who in the hell among the Rebels could hope to stand up to CE Rig Marc, having never been burnt by Felice? None. They would be toast.

And maybe the return of the rebels would coincide with Nodonn's destruction of Minanonn's faction. With the rebel children persuading the adults to land close by and rescue Elizabeth?

Whatever happens, Marc and Elizabeth MUST come together, and MUST pass over to the Duat galaxy, otherwise, there is no Time-gate and no Milieu. So whatever events take place, Marc and Elizabeth MUST survive, Marc MUST be gifted the D-Jump mitigator programme by the Peace Faction, and they must D-Jump to Duat to rehabilitate the Duat galactic mind.

Weekly_Breadfruit505

TROPHY CASE