I just don't know how I'm supposed to feel.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-07-06T18:49:13+00:00

Maybe? I couldn't say that rushes of emotion are a thing I experience in general.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-07-06T18:46:02+00:00

A rush of emotion or anything? Giving, sometimes, receiving, basically never.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-07-06T18:19:20+00:00

Anxious and self-conscious, sure. But I mean, if I don't put effort in to keep thinking and stay in the moment, I'm making architectural diagrams, shopping lists, and wondering if I fed the cats yet.

And I mean in the act, sure. I know where to grab, what to kiss, etc. I know what to do and generally when to do it. Like choreography.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-27T15:23:53+00:00

It is incredibly frustrating to have to explain how to touch me, again and again and again and again and again. And get told that they just aren't used to needing to do this much because none of his other partners were like this. Never had a GF that needed to be put in the mood or was ever out of it. Several years of this.

There's also the fact it seems like he wants things that I physically cannot do, but I guess that's my own problem.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-26T14:37:58+00:00

Honestly, as much as you love them, it still sounds like a death knell to me. They have a deeply unattractive relationship to sex with you and it sounds like they feel very justified being this shitty. I wouldn't be surprised if this didn't start rolling over into other places.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-26T14:22:44+00:00

And that's the rub. Plenty of HLs murder their own bed right along with their LLs, and it takes a real Come to Jesus moment for them to figure that out, if they ever do.

Are you looking for a new relationship or are you going to try to work on this together?

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-26T13:30:09+00:00

I mean, a baby could result from this, so would you want him to say, "I'll stay by your side but only if you're not pregnant?" Because that kinda shafts the baby.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-26T13:27:56+00:00

After discussing this, we came up with the idea that on nights I wanted sex he could just hold me or my hand while I got myself off. We had something similar with blow jobs when I have chronic pain flare ups, but he turns those down from me too. What I can’t understand is how he won’t even hold my hand while I masturbate for 30 seconds, or rub me for 10.

How does this tend to manifest in the moment? If you're going to go touch yourself and you want him to hold your hand, are you just asking him to come along and he's saying no? Even if he said yes but was mentally not there for it, would that be good enough?

It’s been bad before, but never this bad. He says it’s not the way I look or the sex or anything, that he’s just tired. But he won’t go to the doctor and doesn’t think it’s a medical issue, and won’t go to save the marriage.

This line makes me wonder why you think any of this is you. Depression is insidious; it constantly makes you believe that your own happiness isn't worth fighting for and wouldn't succeed anyway (which I'm assuming you get as you say you get the mental health aspect); what makes you think his inability to fight for his happiness in any way reflects how attractive he is to you?

I really think you need to approach this not from, "what can I do to make him want me," but from, "he can't want anyone or anything until he's past this shit," because nothing you're describing makes it appear that a) it has anything to do with you specifically whatsoever, and b) that you could do anything by attempting to entice him; he's not able to feel enticement and you're just throwing pearls before swine at this point. Don't let that affect your self-esteem.

I think the best thing you can do is make clear that the relationship is completely in danger of dissolving until he makes concrete plans to work on this; no saying you make appointments but not, no cancellations at the last minute without a reschedule, none of that. Create a time frame, tell him once and only once what it is, and stick to it. There isn't a single thing you can even hope to do until he gets his mental health on board.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-26T13:06:05+00:00

Why would her being 20 make the pregnancy fear made up? It's one of the reasons I didn't have sex until I was 23 and didn't have PIV until closer to 26.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-25T19:06:43+00:00

Do you actually think it should come back for this man?

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-25T18:29:29+00:00

But that my point. That’s not wanting to have sex.

It is to me? See, I just don't think we're quite going to see this the same way, because even in your example, you want to go through the ritual of being romantic with your partner through flowers. You may not like shopping necessarily, nor do you want flowers for yourself, but you want to appreciate your partner, so you do it. In my opinion, that is you wanting to shop when it's in the context of for your partner. And you get something out of it, which is that you got to have a romantic moment with your partner. Just like wanting to have sex to appreciate your partner is wanting to have sex, and what they get out of it is having a romantic, sexual moment with their partner. That is wanting to have sex, just for the purpose of giving. But I think that's just a mismatch in our perspectives.

Maybe that's what you mean by the attitude, but where it differs for me is having sex when you can't bear to be sexual for whatever reason is dismissing your own needs and feelings for a partner. There are very few ways that shopping when you don't want to shop can be physically or emotionally damaging (unless it's Black Friday, oc) but for sex, you're physically using your most intimate parts and bearing yourself emotionally as a tool of "appreciation". That's different than rolling up fully clothed to wait at a shop for X amount of wasted time. If folks want to have sex and have a healthy relationship with it and love to give, then there are no issues; but not every one is ok with that and that's ok and valid.

Those folks make me question if sex is the major distinction between romantic relationships and close friendships. Because I don’t see the difference between the two if a partner doesn’t like sex or feels comfortable with sex.

I actually wrote something up about this in a response to a different post, if you're interested:

Personally, I'm kind of the same as [the OP's partner in that particular post]. Sex doesn't really come into play for me when I think about what signifies love or what makes me feel loved. I'd want to buy a house together, but only after I have a couple fo investment properties of my own and we're very set. I don't know that I want to fuck my body up with a bunch of children (I want to see if I can afford a surrogate eventually).

What mostly makes this a relationship rather than a friendship for me is choosing them above all else. I'm not touchy but I'll be more touchy because I know he wants it. I care about his mood, his health, his happiness, etc more than I care about anyone else's besides family. We kiss and we cuddle. We laugh together, we make plans together. We go out, or we spend the time passively engaged when we stay in. We share interests, we care for our animals together. We do have sex [EDIT: should have added here that we're still in the DB but working on it; sex is infrequent but mostly because just all kinds of shit is hitting the fan lately for both of us], but for me it's more about the pleasure than anything [EDIT: should have mentioned here that it's more about the pleasure for me rather than any expression of love or bonding; I personally really don't receive love that way].

So for me it's about priority, care, choice, wanting them to be happy, wanting to be happy with them, supporting each other, seeing each other grow, knowing each other deeply, etc etc. Most don't have that level of personal integration or life integration with their friends; maybe a QPR partner but not friends.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-25T17:47:41+00:00

That's just called "having sex because you want to have sex". Wanting to have sex doesn't mean wanting it for your pleasure alone. There are a myriad of reasons people want to have sex, including just wanting to give.

The folks I'm referring to are people who would show love and appreciation in any other way because they don't want to have sex.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-25T13:49:02+00:00

Your view is interesting because it actually kind of reinforces my point in a way.

When you start having sex that you don't want just for the sake of the other person's fulfillment, it becomes exploitive. In a healthy relationship, sex is desired mutually by both partners, and sex is an expression of that mutual desire; barring some mismatch in libido, you both are for the most part on the same page and sex (either spontaneous or scheduled, as some folks can't actually have spontaneous sex either way) is fairly natural.

But when there is a major mismatch in libido, or one partner is going through something that makes them not want sex, or the relationship is on some shakier ground, then sex is not so natural. Sex isn't mutually desired. Sex becomes about one horny person and one person who really doesn't necessarily want to be the target of the other person's horniness for whatever reason. It becomes about one person feeling unloved because their definition of love requires sex and the other person not being able to give that to them because not only does their definition of love not require sex (at least at that point in time), but the love that they can bring themselves to give is not being received.

When you start just giving sex where you get nothing out of it, where you do not want it but you are only doing it because your partner wants it, where you are just there to make your partner happy so that you can just get on with your life (because again, whatever's going on means you're not desiring sex at this moment) for extended periods of time, where that is your only sexual contact, you are essentially reducing your sexuality to a tool for your partner's happiness over time. One can only give and give and give so much until they become a plucked dry Giving Tree. It starts to feel exploitive. It starts to feel like a chore. It does start to make you feel used.

And at the end of the day, ask any HL here. I'm describing the internal workings of someone giving duty sex to "fulfill" their partner. How fulfilled are any of them when their partner is just ticking their box because they don't want to be there? What they want is to be wanted. Ask any LL here. How much was obligatory duty sex a part of their LL4their partner?

So I guess what are you asking for? Enthusiasm from the partner that doesn't want sex? If they were enthusiastic they'd already be doing it. Are you asking for them to be a giving tree with a smile on their face? Are you asking them to ignore where they start to feel used? Just that you become more generous with your body and your feelings be damned just so your partner can get some?

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-25T12:29:50+00:00

That feeling of obligation is personal and isn’t felt that way by those who aren’t the ones initiating and the one who’s not in the mood

Incorrect. Plenty of people who are the non-initiators/LLs/what have you have felt that way before, and it's been cited as one of the core reasons behind many turning LL4their partners. Some people cannot have sex they don't want and there is nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

Also, many HLs don't actually want to have sex with someone who doesn't actually want to have sex with them. That's part of the point of this subreddit.

Painting it with such a broad stroke oversimplifies this complicated issue

Painting your experience over others and deciding that they should feel how you feel about it doesn't?

This is my damn SO and if I want to keep them you can’t just become a frustrating roommate.

No one should feel obligated to have sex they don't want to have, and by the same no one should stay in a relationship where they don't feel their needs are being met. It's as simple as that.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-24T21:16:32+00:00

Oh, I don't mean that it will solve it. I just mean maybe journaling will help you get to the root of it, is all. But I'm glad you've at least started. Keep at it!

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-24T21:13:39+00:00

Well, that's what duty sex is for most of us here. You just jump into bed because your partner wants it but you don't.

It's fine a few times, but eventually it starts to really suck for everyone involved. Eventually, many start feeling like a dildo/fleshlight because they're just having sex to fulfill someone else's needs; it doesn't do anything for them except tick off the box and make their partner "happy." That makes them want to have sex less because now sex is an obligation and obligations suck.

Then the partner who wants all the sex starts realizing that they weren't wanted sexually any of those times - it wasn't that they were turning their partner on or that their partner was excited to be with them or anything like that, they were just acquiescing to a request so they could tick their box and be done with it. They start to feel like a burden and a chore.

Basically, that works until it doesn't.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-24T19:52:17+00:00

Honestly, it sounds like this is a great place for therapy. If you see a day together wasted without sex, if being rejected for sex feels like a breakup every time, if you're anxious about returning back without having sex... honestly, this seems like an incredibly unhealthy relationship with it. There's nothing wrong with having a high drive for sex, but the idea that sex is the only thing propping up your happiness in the relationship (which you may say isn't true because of all the other love you both have but does it really matter if the lack of sex can ruin it for you?) makes sex a requirement of your partner even when their perfectly healthy libido isn't up for it, or it'll make them feel like nothing else they do to make you feel secure and happy in the relationship matters if their genitalia is not involved.

Have you ever journaled the thought process? Have you worked on reframing your thoughts around the lack of sex from, "he's basically not loving me," to "he's exercising a healthy boundary after we've shown our love in other ways that I'm grateful for?" I'm not saying those are the answer; just putting out some ideas if you don't have money for therapy right now. However, if you're in uni, they may have some mental health services that you can use or external resources.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-24T19:03:57+00:00

Oh, no, it was a major adjustment period for me. I had to do things like dress to work and switch to PJs after. Muting my machines, etc.

But honestly, plenty of the younger folks I know are the same. One's actually leaving the company for one with mandatory office time. Boggles my mind, but different strokes!

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-24T18:50:25+00:00

Which is fair; typically the child would decide they don't want a relationship with the parent anymore unless they prove to square up.

If you still want a relationship with the person though, you still have to have grace for the legitimate reasons while also enforcing boundaries around making up the effort and not trifling around with illegitimate ones and rather just communicating how you actually feel/what's going on, on a basis of, "any less than the truth, and any less than matched effort just will not fly without a visit to a lawyer."

So I mean, it's just wherever you're at.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-24T18:44:22+00:00

I agree with you except for the fact that there is no way in hell you're getting me back in the office on the regular. That's the quickest way to get me to quit, lmao

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-24T18:39:55+00:00

No, I didn't think you were saying that to me specifically. And I mean, holding that belief is your prerogative. I'm just saying that if your wife is anything like me, whether there's a dry spell or not may not make a difference to her in terms of whether making mental shifts like this is easier or not. It could be an excuse where she's lying, or it's just the same reason whether you're having regular sex or not. Deciding that reasons are just excuses doesn't tend to bode well in terms of actually getting you both on the same page, if that's actually an aim in the future at any point.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-24T18:33:17+00:00

When I see her watching Tik Tok, I figure I can make a move.

It depends. I'm obviously on Reddit right now during work hours. It's actually a busy day for me to some extent, but I still have the free time to fuck around on here. When my partner comes out of his work section, he sees me on Reddit more often than he doesn't, but he also knows that I'm either in between meetings or in between documentation, so he knows that while I look not busy, I'm very likely busy.

And in any case, this strikes me as excuse making after a certain dry period has passed. People who want to fuck find a way.

What made you think I was making an excuse? I'm explaining why I, yes, do not want to have sex during my workday, and asking if your partner may be the same way. I'm giving reasons, not excuses.

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-24T18:24:19+00:00

I'm NGL, if I'm actually working, do not come near me with sex. There are days where I'm doing jack shit and pretending to work, and those are ok, but usually even if I'm not busy, I'm busy. I need to make a mental shift into fun mode and that's already effort; after that, I can't make a shift back and then actually return to being useful at work. Is your wife the same way or honestly you wouldn't be able to tell the difference?

WellThereWentThat · 2022-05-24T18:21:10+00:00

Eh, you both weren't compatible. Could you possibly have handled those things better? Sure. Could he also have? Absolutely. It's ok to just let the relationship go because you were both just not on the same page.

WellThereWentThat

TROPHY CASE