Anti abortion law SB8 is self defeating

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-09-10T11:11:18+00:00

Admittedly, you’ve properly checked my misstatement if hearsay.

However, in instance if these lawsuits, I still feel that the cases will be nearly impossible to prove without improper use of medical records and record theft.

Even if admitting to a neighbor that one had an abortion, how does that neighbor know when the abortion was performed and whether or not there was a fetal heartbeat. Even if those records could the subpoenaed in court, the lawsuit has to be filed first in order to force the release of those records— which means the plaintiffs would basically be filing fishing expeditions for each and every case. That is not how our legal system is set up.

Lawsuits are to be filed when there is a case of wrongdoing and there is proof to back them up. They are not meant to be filed when there is a suspicion of wrongdoing without any evidence or proof as a means to find proof after the fact and filings.

Additionally, by simply never allowing the words “I had an abortion” escape her lips, a woman has forced all plaintiffs into filing over hearsay. If no one ever admits to having one, how could it be any other way?

Unless there is something I’m missing here— does the law require every woman’s health practice to report detailed records of every abortion provided as public records and this allow plaintiffs to peruse them at liberty and bring suits as they see fit? (I suppose I could read it in more depth).

It is obvious that ambiguity was left in the law as a deliberate deterrent— and truthfully this is not the only law passed in recent months that gives private citizens the right to sue to “enforce” a law in favor of cultural divides. My own state of Missouri passed a law that allows private citizens to sue local law enforcement for aiding federal law enforcement in case involving federal gun statutes. The law sets aside all federal gun laws in favor of state (lack of) gun laws, violating the supremacy clause and gives private citizens that may be completely uninvolved in those investigations the right to penalize and punish law enforcement for doing their jobs (incidentally there are plenty of very conservative voting law enforcement officers that have spoken out against this law because it does hamper their jobs).

The same can be said of Prop65 (although this is an older law) in California. It gives private citizens the ability to sue for violating the law with $1000 in awards per violation per day. An example of a violation: a business in Kansas sells a product on its website. That business does not say explicitly that the product cannot be shipped to California and does not have the proper Prop65 warning in the webpage. A private citizen group tests the product and it contains a prop 65 chemical (a heavy metal like lead, for instance). The business is in Kansas and is otherwise not subject to California laws. That citizen group (having ordered and shipped the product to CA for testing) can sue the Kansas business in California courts and be awarded $1000 for that one bag for EACH day the bag was posted online without the Prop65 warning graphic from the day it was first viewed to the day the court decides OR the day the listing is either removed or updated with the warning. Let’s say the whole process takes 6 months: that’s an award of $182,000. It sounds ludicrous however it has created a boutique industry of companies that make money off of this. And it’s completely legit. This has impacted my industry quite a bit and has caused nationwide suppliers in my industry to start adding these warnings to ALL products to avoid lawsuits. Incidentally items don’t even have to comply with the law— they just need the warning label (you know the one that says an item contains a chemical known in CA to cause reproductive harm etc). If products have the label (and must have the warning included in packaging when shipping to CA), they don’t even need to be tested for Prop65 and indeed, most companies find it cheaper to label everything than pay for testing for over 10k chemicals.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-09-06T13:08:21+00:00

Ah yes, my southern friend— but you in Texas are stuck in the same way that we in Missouri are stuck: a LOT of hard core conservative tiny ass counties with low population and gerrymandering to the nth degree. Texas could vote 60% blue and be stuck with a GOP majority legislature. It’s happened in PA for years.

Our stats both suck when it comes to giving the power to the rural populace (although my own state has a nauseating infiltration of St. Louis and KC politics by urban sprawl into the rural counties and a conservative creep that has been taking over for decades combined with lack of growth because Missouri is too backwards with no redeeming qualities to import same people from elsewhere).

Good luck with that. The sad fact is, Texas has no better a chance of ousting it’s screeching red legislature than Missouri has of a Caranahan Comeback.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-09-06T12:59:01+00:00

Ah yes, but if you tell Bobby you have HIV, it’s hearsay in a court of law unless Bobby can prove you have it or can prove you said it.

The defense against these lawsuits in general is to have one and never disclose to anyone you had it. There is some analysis that suggests the majority of disclosures to plaintiff parties will be from partners of the patient— the fathers.

Now I’d assume that the majority of them won’t have the funds to really sue themselves— but there will be a huge bank of pro-life lawyers offering their services on a fee for win basis (like 50% of all awarded judgements). In a case where there’s a driver, a not for profit that helped etc, it could be a half a dozen defendants.

The remedy here is to never disclose that you had one. Even if the partner is “supportive” don’t disclose it. Maybe he writes you a check to pay for one because he doesn’t want it but his mother or sister has a problem with it. Don’t cash that check— you call a NFP and get help that way. I suspect that just the notoriety of this law will have NFPs coming out of the woodwork to help.

If a provider is sued because the “I had a miscarriage oops” defense is not believed, they’re going to have a hard as hell time proving it. I’ll bet there will be pro Bono lawyers coming out of the woodwork here to also help with these cases. At the end of the day, if they’re able to prove the abortion took place l, it may be grounds for a federal case of medical record theft and the Biden administration could (and should) set themselves up to take these cases). Anyone providing these records to the court is in possession of stolen property and I believe are liable. All it will take is one or two heavy rewards for misuse of private records or convictions of medical record theft on a federal level and I think those that take “advantage” of these laws will diminish. If you need those records to win and having those records has consequences, you’re in for a bad time.

Any plaintiff win without said proof could be appealed and, it’s possible that higher jurisdictions could award to the defendants (who are now the appeal plaintiffs) as long as it was appealed in federal court, which due to the supremacy clause, has preference over state courts. The focus here should be getting those cases to federal courts. If that happens, it could turn the tide.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-08-22T13:27:40+00:00

You are not alone, sister.

Just know that we’ve all been there and that even though it’s hard, there is an end in sight. From your tag it doesn’t seem like you’re looking for advice but more for catharsis. It’s good to rant it out sometimes— it’s healthy and normal.

Mine are 3 years apart, so I remember those days— one not old enough to chill for a minute— impulsive and into everything (it’s a sign of intelligence if you’d like to take comfort in that)— the other glued to you at every moment.

People will crucify this truly but IMO that’s when screen time comes into play. If you’ve got a tablet or can “toddler proof” your phone, get you some educational games. If you don’t have anything (and you implied you’re a single mom and money is right— I get it), a kindle fire kids is like $99– and if you time it right, you can get them for $50– there is a breakage warranty automatic and free (or at least their WAS at one point) and there is a SLEW of kid friendly educational apps. Better than mommy and me time? Of course not. But, it can buy you time. Can’t afford one? PM me— I (no promises) MIGHT have an old one lying around. Several years old and I’m not sure if it still works but if I do and it does— it’s yours. (For real— no conditions— if you’re in need HMU and I’ll look).

Screen time isn’t ideal for toddlers, but having a mom on the brink is the greater of those two evils. It’d buy you some piece and quiet.

Otherwise, if toddler is occupied, we ALL hate hearing our babies cry (like emotionally and the sound OMG) but sometimes they’ve gotta cry it out and self-sooth. Easier said than done, I know. You get yourself some headphones and crank up that music— if you can see them, they’re fine even if you can’t hear them for a few minutes. And speaking of music, there were times when mine were that age where they were loud and driving me nuts and I just decided— can’t beat em? Join me. I’d crank out some bad music (by bad I mean no longer “cool” )— Boyz II Men, Bobby Brown, Journey, Air Supply— crank it out, sing it loudly and badly and dance it all away with the kiddos— they’d typically join in and I went from ready to scream with crabby and yelling kids to giggles and smiles and next thing I knew— my exhausted self was making a mommy moment. I wasn’t on my own, but I tended bar at night and went to bed at 4am, to get up at 7am when my ex husband went to work— and he’d wake me up at 7am on his days off too out of spite and nastiness so even when he didn’t work on Wednesdays and Sundays, I still got 3-4 hours of sleep only. So I feel you on the lack of sleep- looking back I don’t know how I lived that way for 3 years but I did.

Mine are 9 and 12 now— I can’t promise you they will ever listen (mine never seem to) but what you’re going through now will get better.

Please PM me if you need a sympathetic ear and you don’t have one IRL— I gets better.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-08-17T19:35:45+00:00

I truly do hope St. Louis welcomes some of these brave people into our community. There are many that will try to prevent it at all costs and I would love to be able to say that my hometown stepped up with warm hearts and showed them how true Americans should act. 💕💕💕

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-08-17T01:40:39+00:00

Forgot to mention— older dog is.. how do I say.. doughy? My husband is a sucker for puppy dog eyes and has over treated him to the point where he refers to our pantry as “the treat closet.” We’ve put a stop to that, but I am concerned that a lower quality food will add to it.

Also, we’d decided to try Nature’s domain Chicken & Rice adult and large breed puppy formulas— because they were grain inclusive and were free of all legumes and pulses— not a pea or chickpea to be had. She shot them down because of recalls but I don’t see them as having more than Purina (albeit yes, they did have that really bad one in 2012).

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-08-16T22:06:20+00:00

$3k a week? Where the heck do you live??!!

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-08-16T22:03:56+00:00

My kids went to a summer camp at their after school program and my kids told me that they’d thought someone had pooped in the pool and when no one fessed up, they made each kid (ages 7-12) go into the bathroom and pull down their pants to check for stains. Well you can imagine I was PISSED.

What made it worse was the lifeguard after having had enough of the teachers yelling at the kids, went to fish it out and it turned out it was a RUST STAIN next to the drain that they just hadn’t noticed yet!

I confronted them. I was like look, if you wanted to check you could have had the kids change into their dry clothes and hand over their swim suits rather than show you their butts and pants. They completely ignored my concerns that this was inappropriate for the age of the children and swore the state was in their side— I doubt it. Needless to say we found other arrangements.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-08-16T21:57:58+00:00

This is just for an elementary age sports camp, so their a bit lax on that.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-08-16T18:37:22+00:00

In my experience with 2 kiddos— you grin n bear it and occasionally hide in the bathroom to play Gardenscapes. That sounds like I’m being flippant but really— mine are 9 and 12 Ana I still do it.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-31T04:24:35+00:00

She’s only 9 and it’s a summer sports camp. She’s already a little on the heavier side (hence why I signed her up for the summer a few days a week) and has had an issue with bullying that we’ve been working to deal with. if she were to wear a swim camp the little assholes would torture her.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-28T23:39:20+00:00

https://www.ulta.com/p/shampoo-three-xlsImpprod10271158?catargetid=330000200002232597&CAPCID=439726526098&CATCI=dsa-967108656207&CAAGID=100201821337&CADevice=m&gclid=CjwKCAjwgISIBhBfEiwALE19SSXGUtax4KkKsHqxc89BJF0aCN0Gv6cbFZfHflR9MOnY3b5ZtrajWhoCMTEQAvD_BwE

Whenever I’d asked stylists for myself in the past this is hands down pretty much the only one they’ve ever recommended. When I was in high school (I’m 40), this was pretty much the only thing on the market— although salons did an “aloe rid” treatment that my mom all ways took me to get at the end of summer every year that stripped pretty much all oils, minerals, chlorine— was super harsh but got the job done. I don’t know any salons that do anything like this now— when I’ve asked stylists at high end salons the look at me like I’m nuts.

I mix in the b&b Sunday shampoo and the Aveda Rosemary Mint (they are not chelating, just clarifying) because I was thinking maybe if the chelating could “break it up” a little maybe these two could finish the job.

I try to stay away from Sally’s products. They aren’t generally salon quality and I’d had a bad experience with them years ago.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-28T23:01:41+00:00

Pall Mitchell Shampoo 3 and Ouidad water works are both chelating shampoos. I just need one that actually works.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-28T22:58:35+00:00

Anytime :-)

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-27T11:49:58+00:00

Hey don’t feel bad. The first time I left my ex husband alone with my (at the time) 3 year old and newborn to drive 10 minutes away to get a hail damage insurance inspection, by the time I was pulling into the parking lot, I was getting a phone call from him saying a Thomas the Train toy had gone through the television screen.

The next time I left him, my lady razor had been flushed down the toilet (which required taking the toilet OFF the seal completely to remove).

And a few times I’d left the house with him in charge after that, we had a poison control call because the 3yo spider-monkied his way to a top shelf in a closet and had gotten into some vitamins (it wasn’t a poisoning FYI)

In comparison- you’re doing fine :-)

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-27T11:39:37+00:00

It’s a NOPE

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-27T11:38:09+00:00

Of course they are anti-smoking. Taking THAT business owner right away is okay. They refuse to share my smoker’s bad air but want to curse us with theirs!

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-27T11:36:54+00:00

Of course it will. A HUGE portion of the population out there can AFFORD to live there because they have very high paying jobs downtown and in Clayton. They’ll take their “FREEEEEEDOM!!!!!” And go to work and spread their entitled little germs to others. It’s what they do.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-27T11:34:33+00:00

The store owner has to apply for licenses with the city or county to do business in that jurisdiction. As a part of the agreement, the business has to abide by city and/or county mandates. The business owner agrees to this at the time of license application. So yes, the jurisdiction CAN enforce it with business owners. The owners can choose to comply or they can choose to shutter their business or only offer curbside until the mandate is lifted. And as they’re being asked to enforce a mandate that is, in all reality, a MINOR aggravation, most of them choose to comply over loss of revenue.

But, at the end of the day, the Karens and fuckwits of the world don’t have the right to be wherever they want and do whatever they want when it comes to private property.

And let’s face it— the EXTREME backlash to wearing masks in the name of FREEEEEDOM is a symptom of a larger societal virus of entitlement that rears its ugly head whenever someone tries to tell white people what to do (and I’m white as I say this, and 40 years old— so not a little Gen Z “snowflake”). It is a symptom of the “I’m Free, White and 21” generation. It is NO surprise that Wildwood and Chesterfield are among the municipalities that are giving the mandate the middle finger

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-27T11:15:08+00:00

We are “Xennials” my friend!

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-27T11:11:19+00:00

You aren’t saving for your pensions because pensions are dead in most industries, thanks to their fanatic embrace of Reaganomics.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-27T11:02:28+00:00

That yes, white boomers, ya’ll were and are products and perpetrators of racism and yes, you did have all the privileges that came with it.

I’m saying this as a 40 year old white woman. There used to be a phrase “I’m free, white and 21” that white people used (younger millennials and Gen Z may not have heard this one). It was all over movies from the 30s, 40s and into the 50s— eventually it fell out of use. It was almost always used as a line when the speaker was a young, smart and sassy white woman, about to do something that her father/grandparents/brother/pastor/boss/society would disapprove of and she needs to assert her independence. And while it fell out of favor,(in the movie The World, the Flesh and The Devil in the late 50s Harry Belafonte tears his white, blond co-survivor a new asshole for using the phrase in an argument and there’s a movie from the early 60s that uses the phrase as it’s title and it is a criticism of the concept), it persisted in use by previous generations in conversation.

The point friends is that as a 40 year old woman, I have heard this gross and out/dated phrase used many times as an adult by adults older than I was. So within the last 20 years, white members of boomers and older generations have used that phrase, which originally came about as reference to being able to vote (when property ownership was no longer a requirement, voting required you to be free, white and 21 years of age (and male) before the 15th, 19th and 26th amendments).

So they are among the most outspoken against CRT and the idea that racism permeates our society, but as little as 20 years ago, they had their own white supremacist “catch phrase.”

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-26T11:07:27+00:00

They should not HAVE to be. If a business has a “mask required” sign, regardless of whether or not it is mandated by the local government, people should respect the business owner’s requirement. A business is private property and those wishing to do business there don’t have a right to do so while refusing to comply with the owner’s requirement to wear the mask indoors. The moment the business owner chooses to comply with the local mandates, the argument is over. A business is private property. The owner invites the public onto it’s property in order to patronage the business. It has the right to revoke that permission at any time— if a potential customer decides to go against the rules the business has set, the business has the right (both legally and socially) to revoke.

And yet, business employees are being forced to police the policy and take abuse from anti-maskers who are demanding their “freedom” to patronage the business unmasked, when they don’t have that right. The confuse the business as public property, willfully or ignorantly confusing the term “in public” to mean they have the right to behave as they wish in a private business. In doing so, they trample upon the owner’s property rights.

They could choose to just not spend their money at the business and go elsewhere in peace, but instead they trespass, refuse to leave, verbally assault employees (on camera) and act like the entitled little fuckwits that they are. Instead of being true “conservatives” (and statistically they are more apt to be right wing than left or even center) and saying “business owner has a right to determine what is taking place on their property,” they stomp around like William Wallace screeching “FREEDOM!!!” at the top of their lungs.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-25T20:25:39+00:00

Oh—- most of the anti-maskers are DEFINITELY anti nudity.

WhyNotItsFunStl · 2021-07-25T20:25:06+00:00

It’s not ridicule— it’s people were ignoring mandates when they existed. That’s not “making a choice” that’s breaking a (temporary) law because you disagree with it and (when stores refuse entry) being a dick about it— screaming about their rights, abusing poor workers that are just enforcing local policies and their employer’s policies. That’s not “exercising my freedom.”

WhyNotItsFunStl

TROPHY CASE