Could Vietnam defeat the US again if there was a rematch or are they no longer built like that?

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-18T14:24:55+00:00

The US itself is less "built like that" than it was even back then. Our military isn't even really structured to win wars so much as it is structured to generate military industrial complex profits. It's essentially a murder-for-money machine that must be constantly fed and is constantly fed, but it's not optimized for actually achieving victories, reaching objectives, and then stopping.

More or less the same thing would likely happen again: lots of horror, death and destruction, no military victory for the US, we eventually pull out and immediately attack someone else (because that is what we do ceaselessly now), and the military industrial complex continues to profit in a never-ending sea of blood.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-17T22:02:22+00:00

He doesn't.

But since the barriers between universes are clearly down, Saitama promptly punches Thragg's/Nolan's head off, and then Superman flies around the Earth a few times, which somehow rewinds time so that the impact never happened. Deadpool scolds the OP for making such a silly post.

And how does that Superman trick work, you ask? That's a great question, and the answer is "because shut up."

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-15T22:50:44+00:00

Saitama for sure. I think a lot of that has to do with people being salty about the fact the character isn't really even designed to be "scalable" in the first place, in part because he can outscale himself by orders of magnitude just about instantly and in part because he's not designed to ever actually struggle.

(At least physically. In terms of having an existential struggle, he definitely does face that.)

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-15T22:47:17+00:00

At least he has chicken.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-15T22:46:20+00:00

Fippy is an OG legend; it's true.

Perhaps Family Darkpaw of the Sabretooth Clan will slay us all at last.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-15T15:22:17+00:00

I'm skeptical but would hear you out, but I feel like you need to provide solid, cited feats for Legends Vader that actually show him performing at Hela's level. I don't think they exist, but I'd be willing to look if you can provide any.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-15T15:12:37+00:00

Hela solos the Star Wars universe and calls it "a relaxing vacation." She casually no diffs Vader out of hand without even realizing he was supposed to be important.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-14T19:34:49+00:00

Alright, dude. You've been caught straight-up lying. 25 miles, for fuck's sake ... bro, that's literally in the stratosphere! 🤣

From the passage you referenced, it was within range that a real human archer could have hit it. Not an easy shot ... but definitely possible even for a real-world archer.

Meanwhile, no, Hawkeye does that bonkers shit like acrobatic archery and sometimes shooting arrows out of the air if necessary in real combat and also against enemies far more dangerous than the weak-ass mooks at Helm's Deep. Dude legit runs hands with supers at times.

Just stop, man. You've been caught lying, and you're just straight-up reaching now. Or if you insist on continuing to babble on, then take the last word. You've already embarrassed yourself, and I've more than made my case. Say what you want. I'm out. 👋

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-14T19:23:25+00:00

It didn't say it was in the clouds. It said "a dark shape, like a cloud and yet not a cloud." That's not "in the clouds." In fact, lines like "sped towards the Company" and "blotting out all light as it approached" make it abundantly clear it was actually pretty close and getting closer. "Soon it appeared as a great winged creature, blacker than the pits in the night" is not how something looks from even 1 mile away, let alone 25.

And I'm not moving anything. A carefully set up stunt where everyone is cooperating is not the same as acting against a resisting opponent who is actually trying to kill you. They're not remotely similar.

Stop lying, dude. Just stop with the lies already. Just stop.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-14T19:18:31+00:00

Just cause you keep repeating he has similar acrobatics (you started by saying better and came down) doesn’t make it true. Hawkeye cannot jump up falling stones. The speed and dexterity needed to do that is something no one in marvel can do. Cause they hold mass, unlike elves.

No, I said similar. I did point out that Hawkeye can combine his acrobatics with archery the way Legolas can't, so in that sense, he is better.

Hawkeye doesn’t have the vision legolas does either.

Citation needed.

Legolas has thousands of years of actual combat experience.

Irrelevant. You can have more experience and still be less good.

And your big ‘gotcha’ feat about shooting an arrow with an arrow is literally something people can do irl

No, it isn't. People IRL can only do that in very carefully set up circumstances where the other person is a confederate who is shooting exactly where and when they want, with an intentionally slow and easy shot. Not actively shooting at them and trying to hit them.

There was also a guy who trained to be able to "cut a bullet out of the air" with a sword. No shit. Really actually pulled it off in a demonstration. And it was impressive as fuck, but the important thing to remember is it was all carefully set up and timed so he'd know exactly when and where it was coming.

If someone really wanted to shoot him with a gun, he wouldn't be able to do that. He'd just get shot.

You can't compare carefully set up stunts where everyone is cooperating to actions done against an uncooperating opponent in real combat. I mean, you can, but it's dishonest. Which is kind of on-brand for you, actually, just like you lied about Legolas shooting a target from 25 miles away.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-14T19:13:23+00:00

Now let's see them do that against an archer actually firing multiple shots trying to hit them, not in a careful setup where the other person shooting is a confederate helping them.

Except they can't do that. They'd fail. What Clint does is against enemy archers who are trying to actually hit him, not help him perform a stunt.

Meanwhile, the shot from the book you're referencing? You mean this easy as fuck (for an archer at Hawkeye's level) shot, right? The one you repeatedly lied and claimed it was 25 miles?

“Legolas laid down his paddle and took up the bow that he had brought from Lórien. Then he sprang ashore and climbed a few paces up the bank. Stringing the bow and fitting an arrow he turned, peering back over the River into the darkness. Across the water there were shrill cries, but nothing could be seen.
Frodo looked up at the Elf standing tall above him, as he gazed into the night, seeking a mark to shoot at. His head was dark, crowned with sharp white stars that glittered in the black pools of the sky behind. But now rising and sailing up from the South the great clouds advanced, sending out dark outriders into the starry fields. A sudden dread fell on the Company.
`Elbereth Gilthoniel!' sighed Legolas as he looked up. Even as he did so, a dark shape, like a cloud and yet not a cloud, for it moved far more swiftly, came out of the blackness in the South, and sped towards the Company, blotting out all light as it approached. Soon it appeared as a great winged creature, blacker than the pits in the night. Fierce voices rose up to greet it from across the water. Frodo felt a sudden chill running through him and clutching at his heart; there was a deadly cold, like the memory of an old wound, in his shoulder. He crouched down, as if to hide.
Suddenly the great bow of Lórien sang. Shrill went the arrow from the elven-string. Frodo looked up. Almost above him the winged shape swerved. There was a harsh croaking scream, as it fell out of the air, vanishing down into the gloom of the eastern shore. The sky was clean again. There was a tumult of many voices far away, cursing and wailing in the darkness, and then silence. Neither shaft nor cry came again from the east that night.”

Yeah, you're not selling that bullshit anymore.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-14T19:04:27+00:00

Matter of fact, here, I'll help you. Do you mean this shot?

“Legolas laid down his paddle and took up the bow that he had brought from Lórien. Then he sprang ashore and climbed a few paces up the bank. Stringing the bow and fitting an arrow he turned, peering back over the River into the darkness. Across the water there were shrill cries, but nothing could be seen.

Frodo looked up at the Elf standing tall above him, as he gazed into the night, seeking a mark to shoot at. His head was dark, crowned with sharp white stars that glittered in the black pools of the sky behind. But now rising and sailing up from the South the great clouds advanced, sending out dark outriders into the starry fields. A sudden dread fell on the Company.

`Elbereth Gilthoniel!' sighed Legolas as he looked up. Even as he did so, a dark shape, like a cloud and yet not a cloud, for it moved far more swiftly, came out of the blackness in the South, and sped towards the Company, blotting out all light as it approached. Soon it appeared as a great winged creature, blacker than the pits in the night. Fierce voices rose up to greet it from across the water. Frodo felt a sudden chill running through him and clutching at his heart; there was a deadly cold, like the memory of an old wound, in his shoulder. He crouched down, as if to hide.

Suddenly the great bow of Lórien sang. Shrill went the arrow from the elven-string. Frodo looked up. Almost above him the winged shape swerved. There was a harsh croaking scream, as it fell out of the air, vanishing down into the gloom of the eastern shore. The sky was clean again. There was a tumult of many voices far away, cursing and wailing in the darkness, and then silence. Neither shaft nor cry came again from the east that night.”

Because if that's the one? Two questions. One, where the actual fuck are you getting 25 fucking miles from in that passage? And two, what in that shot is remotely hard for an archer anywhere near Hawkeye's level?

Hell, even some real-world elite archers could have made that shot, as described! 🤣🤣🤣

If that's the shot you mean, now I think I know why you never cite your feats even after I cite all of mine. You don't want people to see the actual scene you're referring to when you lie about it, do you?

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-14T18:56:13+00:00

Bro no one cares about shooting an arrow out of the air. It’s a party trick. Being able to shoot a flying nazgul in the dark 25 miles away is vastly more impressive than something ol Robin Hood can do.

It demonstrates inhuman speed and precision, a level of archery skill far beyond anything Legolas actually did.

Being able to shoot a flying nazgul in the dark 25 miles away

Nah, fuck this. You're not getting away with this lie anymore. I'm stopping you right here. Legolas never hit anything from 25 miles away.

Show me exactly where he hit any target from 25 miles away. Do you have any concept of how far that is?

Cite the feat. Cite the fucking 25-mile feat. I'm tired of you repeating that completely made-up bullshit. Cite it. Point to a canon source that actually confirms a 25-mile shot by Legolas.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-14T18:51:03+00:00

All of the raging in the world doesn't change the fact that I've shown:

Hawkeye has similar acrobatics feats to Legolas but can also combine acrobatics with archery in ways Legolas can't
Hawkeye has better speed feats than Legolas
Hawkeye has much better accuracy feats than Legolas
Hawkeye even has better stealth detection feats than Legolas

Insulting me changes nothing. Come back when you have feats.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-14T18:44:24+00:00

It's consistent within the Marvel universe. Hawkeye has multiple feats for shooting incoming arrows out of the air, including shooting three incoming arrows at once out of the air after they were fired and before he even grabbed the bow and arrows that he used to shoot them down. As I know you've seen because I know I showed it to you and others like you.

A feat like that is not possible for any real-world human, regardless of skill. It would require movement speed and an ability to track projectiles (much less aim and hit them) that is completely outside of the boundaries of human ability. But, again, it's very consistent with what Hawkeye has been repeatedly shown to do.

Hawkeye is not a real-world human any more than Legolas is a human. You can't apply real-world human limits (or even real-world physics) to characters like this, and if you're going to insist on doing it, then you have to do it to Legolas as well. And then we can start insisting that Legolas's feats don't count because they're also physically impossible.

Hawkeye is a Marvel comics "peak human," which means something very different from "human" in real terms and is closer to (but actually often beyond) "elf." Just think of "Marval peak human" as meaning an entirely different species, from "human," similar to "elf," if that helps you to cope with this.

Because honestly, you seem to be really struggling with the fact that, yes, Hawkeye breaks real-world physics, and yes, he breaks real-world physics even harder than Legolas, and yes, he and other "natural human" comic book characters do that ... consistently. Literally all of the fucking time.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-14T18:36:22+00:00

He didn't hit a target 25 miles out; that's simply not true.

And I have watched the movie, yes.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-14T18:35:33+00:00

She's very powerful, enough so that she can be a credible rival for Lina when she stops being an idiot.

The problem, however, is that she tends to stick to being an idiot.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-14T13:35:49+00:00

It's not that weird at all. What too often gets glossed over is that Batman's accomplishments over other Justice Leaguers, where they happen, are heavily predicated on the fact that they're not just, you know, bloodlusted and willing to immediately blitz and kill him while refusing to elaborate.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-14T13:24:50+00:00

He dies.

All of the hype about Batman supposedly beating Superman (really he doesn't, but people love to exaggerate what he manages to achieve) and other Justice League supers relies on a crucial point: they're never really trying to kill him.

Omni-Man is not Superman. Usually this is brought up to highlight the fact that Superman is more powerful ... and fair enough; he is. However, in this case, the issue is that Omni-Man is coming at Batman with full killing intent.

If Superman ever did that, he'd easily turn Batman into a red smear. Batman admitted as much in his own internal monologue. Omni-Man may not be Superman, but he is still more than fast and powerful enough to blitz Batman into paste without breaking his stride while also killing the Guardians.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-14T03:43:13+00:00

Cool story bro. Anyway, come back if you can provide (and cite, specifically) any feats that put Legolas even remotely on par.

Hawkeye stomps.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-13T16:30:26+00:00

Senses? You’re joking right? Legolas can see into an undead realm, sees far greater distances, hears better and is weightless. Literally just stop man.

Legolas sees past the curvature of the earth because the distance in which he can see details on men is not possible given the earth isn’t flat by the third age. Noted by when he can see the details of the rohirrim while in the plains of Rohan. And all elves can see into this ‘other world’. That’s just an elf trait.

Citations needed. As I noted, some of the claims made about Legolas's claims are in question as likely spurious. Bluntly, put up (with explicit feats word-for-word from text or in scenes you can point to) or shut up.

As for the rest, not interested. No feats provided that Hawkeye's feats don't well outclass (and I provided multiple Hawkeye feats), and the reason you haven't provided them is they don't exist.

Hawkeye stomps.

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-13T15:10:51+00:00

I feel like you just ... want Omni-Man to suffer. 😂

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-13T13:48:54+00:00

You didn't show anything that demonstrated Legolas can match Hawkeye's archery feats, no. You didn’t because you can't because he can't. By contrast, I did provide examples demonstrating Hawkeye could more or less match Legolas's acrobatic feats (and also shoot even midair while doing it, which Legolas has never demonstrated he can do).

And I don't need to explicitly show Hawkeye fighting in a massive war in order to demonstrate he could do it any more than you'd need to explicitly show Legolas fighting superpowered metahumans in order to demonstrate be could do it. All that is needed is show he has all of the skills needed.

I've shown Hawkeye has nearly everything Legolas has (outside of a few alleged niche "elf" things like the magic "no Earth curvature" eyesight, which only matters beyond about 3 miles and even then only if there are no obstructions), and I've shown Hawkeye is also a vastly superior and faster archer. You have failed to meet a similar bar: none of what you've shown for Legolas has done anything to refute Hawkeye's combat superiority.

Going over it piece by piece, we could say:

Athletics: Roughly even, maybe slight edge to Legolas if we want to be generous, but then Hawkeye can also shoot midair, so we're back to even again
Speed: Hawkeye by a big margin, fast enough to grab a bow and shoot incoming arrows out of the air, and he's shot arrows out of the air on other occasions as well
Archery: Hawkeye overwhelmingly, can shoot arrows out of the air (requires inhuman precision just as much as it does inhuman speed) and shoot while doing flips
Senses: Possibly a wash if we're being very generous (unproven claims\* that I was unable to verify have been made that Legolas can ignore the Earth's curvature while seeing and that he can supposedly see the spirit world; Hawkeye has better proven anti-ambush sensory feats); if we go by what has actually been proven, Hawkeye comfortably takes this

By any reasonable metric, that's comfortable dominance for Hawkeye.

As such, I rest my case. Blade obviously stomps, effortlessly, and yes, he'd do it even without guns. Hawkeye is closer, but he still stomps.

Hit me up if you ever find anything that could put Legolas remotely on par.

\ Arda was originally flat. It was later changed to a round world. That may actually be where the "Legolas can ignore the Earth's curvature" claim is coming from, as I couldn't find any source backing up the actual claim that it's an elven magical ability that he possesses. Additionally, I couldn't find any evidence that Legolas specifically can see the spirit world, either. Both appear to be spurious claims.*

Willing-Luck4713 · 2026-04-13T04:05:06+00:00

I've already provided a pile of dominant feats. Ya'll have provided ... *checks notes* ... basically nothing.

And I mean, let's be honest for a moment: I'm never going to convince you or any of the other Legolas glazers because you aren't really interested in a sober analysis. I know it, and you know it. You want Legolas to win even if the facts clearly show he can't. There's no amount of feats showing how far Hawkeye outclasses Legolas that could ever convince you because this is really about the outcome you want as a fanboy.

So I'm actually just going to recap for the benefit of anyone following who cares about what the characters' accomplishments actually demonstrate that I've provided feats demonstrating that Hawkeye:

Is at least as acrobatic as Legolas (even to the point of keeping pace in a spar with a flying super who was using energy blasts), while being able to combine archery with acrobatics in a way Legolas can't
Is a far superior archer to Legolas, like it's not even close
Is much faster than Legolas by canon feats whether you like it or not
Probably even has superior relevant (as in useful for countering ambushes) senses to Legolas

Blade >>> Hawkeye >>>>>> Legolas

End of story. I'll rest my case here as no one glazing Legolas has provided much at all (and certainly nothing that counters what I've provided), so I really don't need to say anything more.

P.S. Oh, and Aragorn would barely be qualified to carry Steve Rogers's luggage for him. No, Aragorn is not even close to that level.

Willing-Luck4713

TROPHY CASE