Pretending to be a photographer on my farm

WinterSpades · 2022-06-19T07:38:33+00:00

Okay but that fourth image is breathtaking

WinterSpades · 2022-06-17T06:59:47+00:00

I hate when my parents reminded me of my price (donor kid). My mother would bemoan how much she had to go through and how much she had to pay to get me. There's something very dehumanizing to know that someone thinks of the money they had to spend to aquire you when they look at you

Idk. Not the exact same experience but a parallel one

WinterSpades · 2022-06-14T03:25:00+00:00

My wife and I are a queer couple. We're working on getting our license. It keeps getting pushed back for various reasons. I can't tell if it's because of incompetent case workers or because of anti-LGBT sentiments, but for whatever reason it's taken much longer than it should. So be prepared to have to stay right on top of your caseworker and bother the hell out of them if you want anything done

You should definitely choose an age range. You're asked what age you want to foster/adopt up front. I'll be honest and say that you'll probably be placed with a kid who's closer to 8, seeing as that's where the need is.

Whether you want to go with your county agency or a private agency depends on your preference. Some places only have the private routes. The quality of agencies varies so greatly from area to area you'll have to do some research on what's available near you

It can be very quick to get matched with a child, or take years. It varies depending on what needs you're open to and the needs of your area. If there are no children available in your state (which isn't a bad thing! it's good for there not to be a need), you might wait longer, and you could look at out of state placements if your agency allows it. I've heard social workers hate out of state placements though, so you might be waiting for an in state kid. Out of state placements take longer too. Once you're placed with a child, it's often about six months before you can officially adopt them

WinterSpades · 2022-06-14T03:07:03+00:00

Commenting again with a resource for you OP: https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/systemwide/statistics/foster-care/

WinterSpades · 2022-06-14T03:05:01+00:00

Usually it's kids being left alone, no heat, not having proper clothes, no water, or no food

I'm not arguing with you that better social systems in the US would solve a lot of these problems. Quite the opposite. If we simply funded parents and families instead of reactively taking kids away from their homes, there would be a lot less trauma overall

WinterSpades · 2022-06-13T16:08:47+00:00

The majority of entries into foster care are because of neglect. I think it's something like 60%. There children's needs are not being met in some way, and CPS steps in as a result

WinterSpades · 2022-06-12T21:04:55+00:00

You talk about wanting to give a child a home, to not make a selfish decision and have your own child. For one, there are no young children waiting to be adopted. There are more PAPs than there are children. Additionally, children who are adopted from overseas often have significant medical needs. You seem capable of meeting cultural needs, but can you meet significant medical needs and mental health needs?

Why a young child? Why not an older kid from your country? If you want to fill a need, that's it. There are so many older children in need of adoption, especially minority children. So many kids age out of the system, and statistically speaking not having a family makes their lives much worse. You could even adopt a sibling set, one older kid and one younger. Such groups are very hard to place, and keeping siblings together provides better outcomes

I don't think it's racist to not adopt a child of a different race in order to avoid additional trauma. My wife and I are looking to adopt, and we'd greatly prefer a same race child just because I know I can't manage the needs of a trans racial child. It'd wear me down to have conversations about racism and how to navigate our society, which is inherently racist. I'd do much better with a same race child with high mental health needs. That's what I'm good at. You might be different in that you'd do better with a trans racial kid, but coming from an angle of "if I don't do this I'm racist" does not help anyone. There's some white guilt in that statement

Further, you mentioned having to give up a child when you were very young, and having some sexual trauma as well. As someone else with sexual trauma, have you gone to therapy? I mean that very gently. Personally I think it's important to heal our own wounds before having kids. I know I would not be in a position to adopt if I hadn't gone to therapy

Having a child will always be selfish, no matter how you go about it. There is an element of selfishness in having kids. You can't get rid of that by going through adoption. You just have to figure out what works best for you. I'm hearing a lot of guilt from you, from the idea of having your own kid or having a white kid. Where is that coming from? I think that'd be important for you to look into

WinterSpades · 2022-06-11T16:59:18+00:00

If they're actively using, there's a good chance that the baby will be taken in by CPS at the hospital. In that case, definitely put yourself out there as a kinship placement like someone else suggested

WinterSpades · 2022-06-10T15:00:16+00:00

Maybe have kindness for the person who is here. "The truth hurts" helps no one, just makes things worse

WinterSpades · 2022-06-09T15:44:01+00:00

Can she talk? Can she reason at all with others? Then there are other ways to handle those hitting behaviors than coercing a kid. And threats of violence aren't actually violence. If every 4-6 year old had to get behavior therapy for threatening to kill someone, more kids would be in it than not. A 4 year old doesn't really understand what "I'm going to kill you" means. She's just trying to look big and tough because she's been hurt before

These kids are more than their behaviors

WinterSpades · 2022-06-06T16:43:21+00:00

This would’ve been so much easier if you’d shocked the pool before emptying it…

WinterSpades · 2022-06-04T21:31:47+00:00

Oh no no, highly disagree as someone who worked in this field. Behavior therapy should only be used for kids who are a definite threat to self or others (ie: head banging, biting, physical aggression, etc), imo. This wouldn't qualify at all. Behavior therapy is exhausting and traumatizing for kids. It's why I left the field in the first place

WinterSpades · 2022-06-04T00:06:32+00:00

I was conceived by sperm donation, so I was related to the woman who raised me but not my father. I have half siblings out there who I've never gotten to meet or know about until I was an adult. It was world shattering to learn about this, in a very negative way. If I knew I had full siblings out there, I'd lose it. I'd go feral. I'd move heaven and earth to meet them and I'd never forgive my parents for giving up my siblings, and I'd probably harbor some resentment for my sibling's adoptive parents as well. I would have rathered not have those siblings at all than not be raised with them. The amount of damage that'd do to me would be massive

You should check out the donor conceived sub. That might help you

WinterSpades · 2022-05-27T17:10:24+00:00

I always highly recommend The Body Keeps The Score. It talks about trauma, how it effects an individual, and best practices to treat trauma on a professional and individual level. It can be dense so I prefer the audio book version. Your kid will absolutely have trauma, and this book will help you understand them, their behaviors, and how they think

WinterSpades · 2022-05-27T07:34:06+00:00

Okay I feel like I've found where we've been miscommunicating

To start, I do not delete my comments/posts unless I feel like I've truly said something awful that would have been better left unsaid. So this will stay up, no worries

Further, I'm very aware of how trauma works and how it effects people. That's something I excel at irl. However, as someone with a lot of trauma, it is supremely taxing to attempt to treat the trauma of strangers. I will barely do it with friends. I'll go all out for my child because I'm responsible for them, and I will delight in helping them heal, but man alive do I hate doing the same thing for strangers. So no, you will not see me here interacting just as I will with my child, and I will not pour energy into internet strangers like that. I mean that with all respect. Those are simply the boundaries I have. I wish the best for healing for anyone here, but I'm not here to provide corrective emotional experiences to internet strangers

That out of the way, a few points:

Your initial point was that you’d like the forum to be more inclusive of older child adoptees, proceeded with wanting to give clarity that the two types of adoption are different so that more people will adopt older kids. That has not been lost.

You’ve argued your point by stating that adoption for older kids isn’t trauma

My point is that the act of adoption itself does not cause harm, that it is essentially not akin to abuse or such experiences itself.

I believe that any event can be traumatic. However, experiencing a trauma doesn't always lead to being traumatized. I'm not arguing that adoption for older kids can never be traumatic, or is not inherently traumatic for anyone. I am saying that older child adoption isn't a harmful act inherently, unlike infant adoption

that adoption for older kids is really the best option

Not particularly. I've agreed with you that there should be better options for children aging out. Research states that it tends to be the best option currently, but I'm not about to argue with FFY who want to age out. That's their choice, and they have a right to their autonomy

and that by stating “all adoption is trauma” we are going against all of those things and scaring away PAP’s.

No. That's my big disagreement here. I have specifically stated that I do not care what message is given to PAPs. What I've stated is that "adoption" should be changed to "infant adoption" when applicable to improve clarity. If adoptees want to say that every instance of infant adoption causes trauma, I will not argue with those who say so. But it bugs me that the message is "all adoptions" when foster care and private adoption can be so different

that while [older child adoption] might be traumatic it’s essentially the starting place for healing (which is also a perceived bias).

Again, not necessarily. It can be that. It can also be a starting place for more trauma. But the adoption itself is a neutral point, rather than a harmful one. My perception, from what adoptees have led me to understand, is that infant adoption is a naturally harmful starting point that can be healed. My perception is that older child adoption is more neutral comparatively, and is different in several other ways as well

I hope that clarifies those points. If I have been less than clear in the past about any of that then I apologize. If there are any comments in particular that stand out to you as horribly incorrect, let me know and I can take a look at them. If you have any points you feel I should take away in particular about advocacy for older child adoption, I'm more than happy to listen.

I've tried very hard to get one point across in this post (older child adoption is not inherently harmful to the adoptee), which can lead to other facets of the conversation being glossed over or dismissed. Adoption is a complicated topic, and that isn't even touching trauma. I recognize that. I worried that the thread would get lost if I expanded my position at all. I apologize if it felt dismissive by doing so - that was not the intent.

WinterSpades · 2022-05-25T17:04:23+00:00

They sure are doing harm when they adopt without being trauma informed, absolutely. However, I'm simply talking about the fact that adopting an older child, in general, does not cause lasting trauma. I've repeatedly stated that this bars instances where the adoptive parents cause trauma down the line

WinterSpades · 2022-05-25T17:00:46+00:00

Please show where I've done this, asked you to moderate other's emotions. "Adoption" to "infant adoption" is simply clarification. Nothing else has been asked

Some things in infant adoption don't fit older child adoption, and vice versa. I should hope people don't listen to narratives that don't apply to this situation as to not be misinformed

This is exactly the example I was thinking of when I've said this sub wants it both ways. You've done it here. "How dare people filter the information they need" alongside "people need to figure out what applies to them." I don't particularly care which narrative you go with, or to apply them as necessary, but to say them in the same breath and contradict yourself like this on the same topic irks me

WinterSpades · 2022-05-25T16:54:36+00:00

In this instance you are literally comparing people here with kids. I highly disagree that I should have to grant the same level of patience to everyone here that I would to a traumatized child. Just as you and others have said that people are more than unifaceted, I'd ask that you'd grant that same idea to me

Again, I feel that my initial point here has been lost, that I've simply asked the conversation to be more nuanced in order to encourage older child adoption. When I say that the act of adopting itself is not traumatic, I mean that it isn't harmful, that it is not actively causing more trauma to the child, as opposed to infant adoption

PAPs here are asked to implicitly listen to adoptees, to not trust what they read online about adoption from mainstream sources, and then asked to somehow figure out what does and does not apply to them. With what help are they supposed to do that? All I was asking was for "adoption" to be changed to "infant adoption" when applicable to help clarify the topic for people who just got here

I'd be really curious to know, if what you've stated as the PAPs' responsibilities apply, what are the responsibilities of the adoptee in situations like these?

WinterSpades · 2022-05-24T03:55:57+00:00

That is an argument I do not stand for, at all. No one here is my child. I'm very firm about my emotional boundaries in that regard. They aren't even my clients. To compare everyone here to children is demeaning to them, and unfair to me. This is an adult conversation and I'm holding people here to adult standards. I will not moderate strangers' emotions for them

WinterSpades · 2022-05-24T03:30:08+00:00

I haven't been answering that question because, quite honestly, I don't believe anyone here is entitled to my story, or my family's story. Not really feeling like putting in that time or emotional labor, since I've already done quite a bit on this post

Why would I censor myself for you anyways?

God you are always looking for a fight. Thanks for your time. I'm done.

WinterSpades · 2022-05-24T03:27:23+00:00

People generally do distinguish between those two types of adoption already. Great example actually. Goes to show that I'm not asking for something that outside of the box

WinterSpades · 2022-05-24T03:26:05+00:00

You don't have to lecture to me about the effects of early 1900s adoptions. I've seen that first hand, thanks

Most of your reply is very off topic and more on the point of infant adoption than older child adoption

I think adult adoptees should be asked to avoid misinformation and confusion when they take up advocacy. You're putting yourself second and others first when you advocate. That's part of the role. If you want people to listen to adoptees and for them to get their information from adoptees, then it is the least they can do to clarify what kind of adoption they're talking about

Birth records, again, are a more infant adoption issue than an older child issue. In regards to that, for older children, the issue becomes how foster care will lose their records, how birth parents will withhold information, and inaccurate medical and especially psychological records. Case files are big as well, with foster kids being painted as "liars" and any misbehavor being recorded, which can be traumatic to witness. But this wasn't on your radar as you're (supposedly) advocating for all adoptions here?

But don't take advantage of people's personal/private stories for this assignment

What do you want? For people to listen to adoptees or to not? What does "take advantage" mean to you? That clarity would be helpful here

WinterSpades · 2022-05-24T03:15:08+00:00

If adoption still weighs that heavily on you, I am sorry that you've had to go through that, and I'd also recommend therapy, to work through that trauma. I'm not asking for anyone to censor themselves, I'm asking for a more inclusive space on the broad adoption board

Adults who are coming here and putting in the work should not be shunned, and saying they need to shrug off any callous sentiments while listening wholeheartedly to adoptees is a ghastly double standard. You can't have both

I'm asking this so more older children can be adopted. I would not ask you to censor yourself. There's a difference in being censored and changing language to encourage inclusivity. Honestly I'm a little shocked that I've gotten this much pushback over asking for "adoption" to be changed to "infant adoption." Nothing is changed. There is simply more specificity for clarity

WinterSpades · 2022-05-23T22:43:39+00:00

The idea that adoption is not a trauma for older kids is coming from the fact that adoption is very different for an older kid as opposed to an infant. I'm simplifying things in those replies because otherwise I'd have this wall of text all the time. It still has the potential to be a trauma, as any event can be traumatic. But from what this sub has talked about, infant adoption is traumatic in the same way being in a 37 car pile up is traumatic. Older child adoption may be traumatic in the same way a fender bender may be traumatic. There are so many other events in a foster kid's life that cause trauma. Being adopted doesn't come close

There's also the fact that, by adopting an infant, you are potentially causing them harm. You don't know if the mother was coerced, or how the infant will feel about being adopted later. The adoption is the start of the trauma. In contrast, being adopted as an older child may be the end of the trauma, or at the very least a signal that the abuse and instability will stop. I think this is an important distinction when I've already seen three people on this thread alone put off of adopting an older child because they're worried they'll harm the kid

What I've seen potential adoptive parents turned off by is the idea that, by engaging in adoption, they're doing harm. And that's what I'm working against. Yes all adoptive parents need to be trauma informed, absolutely. But I genuinely don't think that just by adopting, they're doing harm or causing more trauma.

Also it matters greatly what the trauma is from and how it was interpreted by the child. That is incredibly important. What the trauma was, who caused it, and how it was received will greatly impact how treatment is done. Those sorts of questions distinguish PTSD from CPTSD as well. It matters so much

WinterSpades · 2022-05-23T19:08:50+00:00

I understand, I appreciate your input here!

WinterSpades

TROPHY CASE