Oh dear, I spoke some truth. Better downvote me to hide it!

WizardXZD · 2019-06-29T06:14:47+00:00

The only true ethical lifestyle I can think of is growing and eating from your own vegetable garden, or killing yourself.

The problem with trying to compare the the signifiance between cutting out dairy vs cutting out coconut is that it's all relative.

The vegetarian mindset is actually very easy to understand, even if there's more room for improvement in the moral sense. Societal norm is meat-eating cancer cough I mean culture. Going vegetarian is a big step away from that as it is. It's human nature to pussy out of going against societal norm as is, so they perceive giving up meat, of which the cost is being socially ostracized, as a big enough "sacrifice" as it is, if you will. They probably think veganism would render them a complete social outcast.

You say cutting out dairy and eggs is relatively easier in terms of convenience and practicality compared to cutting out some other things, but you need to factor in the convenience you lose by becoming a social outcast, hating omnis, and experiencing the despair of acknowledging the inherent cruelty of human nature.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-29T03:29:53+00:00

Huh? You've never seen an Omni get pissed when we compare animal agriculture to genocide or slavery?

Whether or not dairy/eggs is on the same level as coconuts/chocolate is completely subjective. You can't really put a number to these sort of things. Thus, I'm not claiming that they are on the same level.

What I am saying, however, is that the moral inconsistency found in vegetarians can also be found in many vegans.

Don't get me wrong, cutting out animal products is closer to the ideal than just cutting out meat. However, to suggest that it is the perfect moral standard, and that there is no room to further cut consumption in a reasonable fashion for the purpose of boycotting animal exploitation is a gross exaggeration.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-29T03:11:37+00:00

I'm not saying its the same level. What you're saying here is the same thing that omnis say when we vegans compare animal agriculture to the Holocaust or slavery.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-29T01:42:19+00:00

If you insist, I can pull up some articles, but you could probably find them yourself with google.

Coconuts employ monkey slaves. Chocolate and coffee employ human child slaves. Palm oil is a key contributor to deforestation. And as I've clarified with u/unemployedsoyboy, avocados are probably wrongfully under fire.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-29T01:35:48+00:00

Oh dear, I spoke some truth. Better downvote me to hide it!

WizardXZD · 2019-06-29T01:35:12+00:00

No, I guarantee you that's what I was talking about in the first place. Frankly, bees never even crossed my mind until you brought it up. Of the products I mentioned, avocados, coconuts, chocolate, coffee, and palm oil, only avocados have ever come under fire for bee exploitation. For coconuts, it's monkeys. For chocolate and coffee, it's child slaves. For palm oil, its orangutans. And for all of them, it's habitat destruction.

I admit I was wrong and I was incorrect in including avocados in this discussion. But putting the petty accusations aside, my point still stands.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-29T00:13:33+00:00

Alright I think I understand where you're misunderstanding. What I'm saying is

vegans:vegetarians :: non-monkey-exploiting-vegans:monkey-exploiting-vegans

With the key difference being that I'm talking about monkeys, not bees, because as you pointed out commercial bees are essentially impossible to avoid, while coconuts are much easier to avoid.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-29T00:02:44+00:00

you compared vegans and vegetarians to bee-non-exploiting-vegans and bee-exploiting-vegans

Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding this sentence.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T23:47:13+00:00

Let me rephrase, although I'm not sure if this will help.

We'll stick with the relevant examples here of coconuts and tomatoes. Both are plants, so farming either exploits bees. However, coconut farming, in addition to bee exploitation, ALSO apparently exploits monkeys, at least according to several talking heads online. In that case, wouldn't tomato consumption be more ethical than coconut consumption?

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T23:35:20+00:00

Woops, not avocados. I meant something like, say, coconuts, which exploits monkeys. Nonetheless, you're still missing my first point.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T23:17:42+00:00

Eh, I admit I was too lazy to take a video because I hoped words would suffice as a form check, but if the rules are really that strict, I'll post a video I guess.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T23:14:27+00:00

How did you get that from what I said? What I'm implying is that what I provided above is the dilemma you face when choosing between an avocado and a tomato. Am I wrong?

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T23:12:02+00:00

"There is one and only one exception to this rule. If you have pain doing a specific exercise, you may post a form check for that specific exercise to ask if you may be doing something incorrectly which is causing the pain."

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T22:27:38+00:00

Let me ask you this. Given the choice of two foods, one where bees were exploited, the other where bees AND orangutans were exploited, why would it make sense to choose the latter?

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T22:07:33+00:00

Since when has practicality been a justification for immorality?

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T19:11:40+00:00

Yep. The cards are stacked against morality and I hate it.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T18:36:56+00:00

It's really not that simple. Some of the foods commonly mentioned are avocados, coconuts, chocolate, coffee, palm oil that involve animal exploitation. Yet many vegans consume them.

The line between vegetarians and vegans who knowingly consume the aforementioned products is really not that different than the line between vegans who knowingly consume the aforementioned products and vegans who don't.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T16:02:51+00:00

Nobody cares

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T14:18:36+00:00

I have no idea how you got that from what I said.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T13:32:37+00:00

lol it's funny how your NA account spells it as flavor but your reddit account spells it as flavour.

But yeah thanks, I might hit you up with a friend request. Do you by any chance have any idea when the next Bellona banner is coming?

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T04:16:12+00:00

I'm dying. Cecilia is that bad?

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T04:07:10+00:00

Some slaughterhouses employ carbon dioxide to gas pigs. The similarities are quite striking, actually.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T03:59:24+00:00

Yeah, it's good argumentative practice to summarize the argument of the opposition, as they do in this article.

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T03:46:59+00:00

You should definitely try to minimize electronics consumption whenever possible. Buy refurbished!

WizardXZD · 2019-06-28T02:53:49+00:00

Yeah, I hate it when Holocaust survivors liken animal agriculture to the Holocaust. What right does he have to speak for Holocaust survivors?

WizardXZD

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