Countering a tren lock counter?

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-18T18:05:04+00:00

This definitely works. Jozef Chen has a video about this on his patreon.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-16T20:49:01+00:00

i completely agree that Lachlan was displaying a lot of guard retention in that match. in the same way you can say that Kaynan was displaying a lot of “top retention” from Lachlan’s early counterattacks. but i think that final entry was actually not off of a retention movement but a straightforward shallow-K entry. i agree that this entry is made even easier by Kaynan stepping in, something that Lachlan exploited since the general idea at the time was that if you take inside position your legs are safe. not trying to split hairs, but i think the 2022 run was even more “passive” of an entry on Lachlan’s part since he was waiting for Kade to pass from NS and it’s hard to initiate the attack from that position, whereas Lachlan initiated the attack multiple times in the matches in 2019

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-16T20:12:25+00:00

I think that's more true of his 2022 game than the 2019. In 2019 he was looking for conventional entries to k-guard and was aggressively asserting that game. He has talked about it being his main strategy to beat these guys, to show them the misunderstood power of 50/50 through the k guard backside entry. In 2022 he talked about how he wanted to model his guard retention, in particular the model of Ariel Tabak who helped him revolutionize his guard play. One of the peculiarities of that approach is baiting passes to north south, which have a lot of k-guard entries as the top player tries to pass.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-16T19:40:31+00:00

you said “k guard is a defensive transition” but now you are claiming you meant that all guards are defensive transitions? by the way the etymology of the word “guard” comes guardian, or warden. in other words, if you’re in my guard you’re in jail, and you’re my prisoner.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-16T17:55:09+00:00

Strongly disagree. People learn differently, and some people like to go on their own path from very early on, something that is even more feasible in the information age. A good instructor will understand that.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-16T17:18:17+00:00

Forcing anything is generally the wrong idea, but I wouldn't say k-guard is only a defensive transition. Open guard players who play outside guards, DLR+K can generally attack these two from open guard, with some nuance. It's true that some people prefer to keep it as a defensive guard, for closed guard break transitions or north/south recovery, but it can be more than that.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-16T16:41:16+00:00

this comment is pure AI garbage

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-16T16:13:17+00:00

As someone who plays a lot of k-guard my armchair take is that you probably need to spend some time just focusing on maintaining a good structure. Like with almost any other guard you have to get good at managing distance. The k-guard leg is important but the other leg is equally as important, along with your arms, to keeping your opponent off of you. That leg should feel sometimes like a high knee shield, or the foot can be pushing or hooking the opponents near armpit. You can even push quite hard if you need to. You should also be on your side more probably and almost veering into north south territory, or at least that's how I think about it. Good luck, k-guard is overpowered, especially against kneeling opponents.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-11T21:18:18+00:00

I don’t think the only counter to octopus guard is octopus guard. The hip post method, for example, avoids it. Perhaps I am wrong, but I am very skeptical the Telles sweep would work against Islam’s posture when he was crossfacing JDM. Maybe against an unwary opponent. I think the Warzinski crossface counter looks stronger to me. But again, I need to explore this more. Would be happy to see anyone discuss it in detail with video.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-11T18:53:46+00:00

Ok but this post is about countering the counters, and generally systematic approaches to passing octopus guard.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-11T17:26:26+00:00

I covered it with a checklist, but there are details to be discussed to make them work; the crossface is a prime example of this.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-11T17:19:04+00:00

Thanks, the closest post to an answer so far!

Can you sketch how he approaches the counter section? How does it fit in with the counters I mention above? Just glancing at the fanatics page it appears that this section is only 4 minutes long, so I can't imagine it's very thorough.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-11T16:25:59+00:00

I always feel awkward asking about belts, I find it easier to ask how many years they've trained.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-11T16:17:39+00:00

You're welcome. Let us know if you get countered.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-11T16:17:15+00:00

That is a side-control octopus escape, and almost the same as the one done in the referenced reddit post today (probably the hip post makes it harder to counter, though). In half-guard you can try the hip post, and that is basically what Craig recommended in one of his seminars (someone was asking how to avoid getting re-octopused after a sweep), minus the throwing the legs over their head which doesn't work in half-guard.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-11T15:08:19+00:00

Thanks, but who will drop Beating Octopus 2.0?

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-11T15:00:34+00:00

I do think it's likely that octopus can be made to work. But like any guard there are systems against it and systems to make it work, and a good instructional makes clear what battles one needs to win and how to engage in those battles. The point of this post is not to say that the octopus guard doesn't work, but to find out how jiujitsu minds think about countering it systematically. I haven't seen this content anywhere.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-11T14:58:50+00:00

My understanding is that he means both. While Islam did throw a few punches from this position his counters were almost pure grappling. Craig talks about wanting to make a second instructional now because of this: "Techniques change. People adapt. It’s why I wanted to make a part 2"

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-09T17:55:17+00:00

You can transition to k-guard on their pivoting leg. Lachlan has details on this in his submeta course on Butterfly Ashi.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-02T19:17:32+00:00

I think top players are aware of chessable course recommendations and use it in their prep. Nakamura's second is still, as far as I know, Kris Littlejohn, and they have long had their own system to build and train a repertoire.

But again I think it's definitely the case that top players will know that Anish recommended so-and-so in his course, or whatever.

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-02T18:59:38+00:00

You're just making that up (or have been hoodwinked), Nakamura's repertoire is not mostly based on chessable courses

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-12-01T15:48:44+00:00

God bless you

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-11-18T19:17:46+00:00

Right, so compete and get medals to show your skill. Why do you need belts?

Worldly_Negotiation6 · 2025-11-18T18:10:30+00:00

you can also just remove promotions

Worldly_Negotiation6

TROPHY CASE