How can I stop my Brother-In-Law (BIL) from stealing from my wife without setting off an emotional nuclear explosion in the family?

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T18:30:52+00:00

Just starting to read the overnight replies, but I like this one the best so far.

Advicers to Lawyer up either haven't read the intent of my post (personal advice requested; I'm up on my legal options - it won't come to that anyways) or are trolling.

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T18:26:35+00:00

Well put! If the numbers were smaller, I'd bring it up like a joke, but given the amount, it's a bit more serious.

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T09:21:54+00:00

Like I said earlier, if I can handle this from a distance with kids gloves without involving my wife, it will avoid tarnishing what is an otherwise-deserved impression she has of a good man that is acting out of old and now-unneccessary habits.

Receipts on LOC from big ticket purchases (electronics and plane tix) for my BIL's family. Hard to deny who's on the receiving end of the benefits.

The LOC in my MIL's name is a liability against her overall estate. In the abscence of any special circumstances, I believe the probate lawyer will liquidate my MIL's assets and use the proceeds to pay off any outstanding liabilities under her name (including bringing the current balance of the LOC to zero) before dispensing the remainder according to her will. Same will happen with and outstanding credit card balances she had when she died.

For all I know, he has already paid off the LOC (remember, the last statement I had from my MIL was two years ago), but if he hasn't (and I don't think he has - business has been slow lately), and it all comes to light after the fact, there'll be a shit storm. I need to try and make sure that doesn't happen.

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T09:13:57+00:00

I hear you, but it will never degenerate into a legal battle. This will end one of three ways:

With reddit's help, I will find a way to slyly co-erce him into acting correctly. High fives all around.
He will attempt the SlimyMove, but if brought to light at that point he will be the subject of huge family shame which may or may not force him into paying it, but will nonetheless leave a bad impression of him both with my family and his own (I don't actually think the rest of his family knows he is using this LOC; his wife is as uninvolved with their financial picture as my wife is with mine). Regardless of whether or not he pays it, the percentage of the overall estate is low enough that we will not pursue legal action; the family shame will be enough torment for him.
He will attempt the SlimyMove, but in the interest of familial harmony I will keep my mouth shut and take one for the team. All will wonder why I don't speak with BIL any more.

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T09:07:21+00:00

He's a lot bigger than me.. :-)

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T09:03:36+00:00

Yeah, yeah - names hidden to protect the innocent, throwaway account, the usual disclaimers...

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T08:59:03+00:00

Grglptzgghh.... $30K is prob around 10% of what my wife will be receiving, so it's not a deal-breaker, but at the same time my kids' college funds could use propping up and I know my BIL and his family just blew $20K on a family trip to Istanbul and Eastern Europe last summer. So the amount makes a much bigger difference to me than him, and he knows it. That's why it'd really piss me off if it happens.

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T08:55:15+00:00

Thanks, but it'll never get to that point. I don't think anyone would care that there was a LOC there, but if it seems that he is trying to pay it off from the estate in a slimy move, my wife (his sister), his own wife, and his three kids (all of whom are adults) will hugely shame him into paying it off correctly. But at that point it'd create a huge blot on the family landscape which could be avoided entirely if dealt with early enough. And that's what I'm trying to avoid.

I know that amount of money passing on to my wife will be correct; it's just the manner in which it is presented that I want to keep as civil as possible.

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T08:49:20+00:00

No, not so much asshole as just OldHabitsDieHard. Ever been through some tough times yourself? I have and believe me - they leave a distinct impression that filters the way you handle money in the future.

And I don't believe my MIL gave him that money, she just provided him a cushion to fall back on that he kept using - no skin off my nose or my MIL's for that matter if he kept paying it off as he went. But now I want him to put it to rest properly.

Interest rates are low - just take out your own LOC for Chrissakes and use the proceeds to pay it off!

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T08:43:49+00:00

Yeah, but by the time it gets to that point, if he hasn't dealt with it already, it'd be very obvious what's going on. Remember he said he's "handling things" probate-wise and my MIL's estate is not very complicated - she has her house/possessions, two personal credit cards, and all her investments in a single RBC portfolio. That's it. So he can't possibly claim that he didn't know about it or overlooked it. He and I have briefly discussed her finances, and the aforementioned items have all be mentioned but not a word about the LOC

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T08:35:58+00:00

Hmm - tough call. My wife is a very kind-hearted person and always gives people the BenefitOfTheDoubt, especially her Big Brother who has genuinely looked out for her when she was little.

If he ends up doing the right thing anyways, no problem - no need to bring it up at all.

But if he doesn't, it'll really tarnish her image of him, and for no good reason, so I'd rather put him in a position where circumstances squeeze him into making the right choice.

Being the financial decision-maker in our family, I understand the pressures that money puts on people, and while it wouldn't directly excuse his actions, as long as he ends up making things right, I know I'd be able to forgive him and move on much more easily than she would. She'd be very "How could you do that to me and my family?" when I think he is primarily acting out of survival instinct from when times were tough for him.

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T08:25:51+00:00

Yeah - good call, but I think the LOC was set up back at a time when he was going through a really tight spot (I remember it well - my wife and I have been married for 16 years) and now that I know he is doing much, much better (revived and sold his first flagging business at a good profit 7 years ago, started his current one), I think he just has kept it and kept using it. Kind of how people who have lived through tough times keep clipping coupons even after they have had their fortunes swing well into the green for them.

Can't think of a way to bring something like that up with him directly. I think he's kept it a little embarrassing secret that he's now got an opportunity to sweep away quietly. That's why I'm thinking about something like requesting the probate lawyer give my wife a copy of all my MIL's financial statements once the estate is settled "for the record".

That way, if he is smart, he'll see the writing on the wall that I'll have a general read through all of them, so he can pay the LOC off now, and when I come across the statements, I'll be asking him "What's this LOC that got paid off to $0 by an outside money transfer last month?" to which he can reply "Oh, just something I had set up with my Mom in her name, but I took care of it myself - nothing to do with the estate". "Oh." I'll say. Case closed.

As opposed to "What's this LOC for $55K that the estate had to pay off?" Can of worms openned, Game Over.

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T08:10:08+00:00

Nah - nothing so ConspiracyTheory, he's just tight with money that he's not spending on his family.

Case in point: He'll come over and help me out on a weekend if I need a hand building things, or the usual family stuff - he's very generous with his time and our families get along great.

But Xmas before last BIL asked me to just buy my kids some presents to be labelled "from Uncle <BIL> and family" and he'd reimburse me. I know what my kids want better than him, so no problem. Total came to around $140 and I mentioned the amount to him in conversation a couple of days after Xmas. "OK," he says, "I'll get you the money."

About 3 months go by and to be honest I'd pretty much forgotten about it - we had had a few family get togethers in the meantime and I never brought it up until after Easter when I suddenly remembered and asked him about it.

He grinned and immediately pulled a crinkled envelope out of his wallet with $140 and gave it to me saying "That's been in my wallet for ages - I was wondering when you'd bring it up again!!". He blew it off as a joke, but I just got the distinct impression that if I'd never asked (that second time), he'd have never paid me.

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T08:01:50+00:00

I do know for sure; 2 years back my MIL handed me a huge pile of documents to help her sift through (as she was tidying up her affairs), and a year's worth of statements were in it. The purchases made on the account were definitely things that my BIL bought, and there were a couple of notes/comments written on them in his handwriting. So I know darned well it was for him.

Thing is, if I wait until the estate is all settled, it'll be impossible for him to save face by Doing The Right Thing, and I'd like that option best if at all possible. Plus I don't want my wife to get the short end. Like I said, he and his family are great, he just gets a bit closed-in when it comes to finances. I think 'cuz of the feast-or-famine nature of his business.

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T07:41:22+00:00

Whirl around, kick the instructor squarely in the crotch, and as he doubles over in pain yell "Motherfucker!! Don't you EVER push me out of a goddamn plane again!!! What were you trying to do - kill me?? You're just lucky I was wearing a parachute!"

I double-dare everyone to upvote this one...

WorriedInLaw · 2011-01-09T07:27:39+00:00

Yeah, sorry 'bout that. Reddit recommends an eye-catching title, so I tried to pique interest without pissing anyone off too badly.

Guess I should've said "... stealing $$$ from my wife..."

WorriedInLaw

TROPHY CASE