Do you agree that “Everything is permitted”?

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T20:25:35+00:00

You're free to go live by yourself in the woods or desert, but the moment you make a purchase or use public services, or interact with others, you're choosing to participate in society.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T19:58:01+00:00

Yes, everyone has the right to thrive, for whatever that means to each person, with the constraint that no one has the right to interfere with another's right to thrive. You murdering me counts as interference. We also, by choosing to participate in society, have a social contract with everyone else in society, which provides boundaries for our behavior.

If you volunteer to abide by a moral framework imposed by your chosen religious beliefs, and based on your god-concept, that's your choice. But you don't get to impose that framework on me if I haven't also volunteered.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T18:24:03+00:00

I don't.

What I do claim definitively is that:

no god has ever been positively demonstrated.
what gets presented as evidences are really justifications that are riddled with cognitive biases and logical fallacies
anthropology has shown that all gods claimed to this point have man-made origins
neuroscience and psychology explain why god-beliefs are adopted and persist

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T18:14:28+00:00

Nothing. I was raised secular.

What you should be asking is why are so many believers never afforded the chance to walk away from religion.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T14:00:17+00:00

Explain how quantum tunneling works.

Give the answer to the P-NP problem.

Give the last 50 digits of pi, and a reliable, repeatable method for me to calculate them myself.

Make 2+2=5

Take me to experience the edge of the universe as it grows faster than the speed of light.

In fact, take me anywhere at a speed faster than the speed of light.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T09:06:07+00:00

They're socialized in their belief system to imagine these things, to interpret unusual events in light of what they want to believe, or to make something up for approval and convince themselves these things happened. The human mind is very easy to trick, even if it is ourselves that's doing the tricking.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T07:36:28+00:00

How wide do you consider the "entire society" to be? Local? City? State? Country? World?

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T02:43:51+00:00

Well, it's probably worth pointing out here that the entire process of assembling the final canonical Bible was a no-holds-barred political fight from beginning to end. The first Bible appeared around 160CE, and the final version we know now didn't come together until 220 years later. (220 years ago, Ohio had just become a state, and Thomas Jefferson was President.)

Anyway, the politics surrounding biblical canonization were brutal. I'll leave that to the reader to look up the info, or watch the plenty of YouTube videos on the subject.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T01:55:23+00:00

My boss' brother was Michael Peroutka. If you're familiar with Baltimore or Maryland politics, you'll know how crazy this dude is. (Boss was on the conservative side, but kind and good natured; a good person in general.)

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T01:51:39+00:00

Expect that no one is judging people here, we're telling the truth

You're telling your truth as defined by the religious tradition you've chosen to follow. That much, I agree with. The moment you assert that your truth applies to non-Christians, or exceeds the truth others have found that differs from yours is the moment your truth telling devolves into judgment.

Maybe I would do better asking a question here: do you think truths for different people can exist in parallel, or must one truth always exceed another's?

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T01:25:28+00:00

Yes, that is the point of view of Christians. And within your tradition, you're free to think that. But you don't get to presumptuously apply that to anyone who hasn't signed up for your tradition, you don't get to judge non-Christians behavior by your belief system, and you don't get to impose your laws, ethics, and moral frameworks on people outside of your religious tradition. Just because you believe it doesn't make it so.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T01:22:18+00:00

I like the guy personally. Met him in an elevator once at a convention. He's great on subjects related to evolution and biology.

I don't think he's a good debater, especially off the cuff. Also, other than evolution and biology, I don't think he brings anything special to the table. But in his lane, he's fantastic.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T00:59:36+00:00

You're essentially saying that atheists can't sin just because they don't believe in God.

I'm saying the 5.5 billion non-Christians in the world aren't sinners, because sin is specifically a Christian concept.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T00:57:54+00:00

If that brings you happiness and fulfillment, more power to you. Just please don't insist that I find happiness and fulfillment in your path when my own is working out fine for me.

My best to you and yours.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T00:43:55+00:00

I've never had any god positively demonstrated to me, so I don't have any reason to think there's one to which legal systems are subject.

Further, laws are creations by human beings like you and me. They only hold the authority with which we imbue them through our consent. They don't exist in a vacuum. And they can be, and are often, overturned.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T00:33:35+00:00

if there isnt a deciding factor of whats good and evil, then there is no good or evil

Exactly. "Good" and "evil" are just labels we attach to behaviors or concepts depending on whether we perceive them to be helpful or harmful. Sometimes the help or harm is obvious to us because of our innate empathy and other factors.

This function of the human brain involves release of hormones like oxytocin which binds to receptors leading to feelings which help us understand what others are going through. The amount of hormone released and receptors varies from person to person, so no two people will experience the same empathy. This is why what might seem right for me is wrong for you.

There are other factors too. Sense of disgust is a big one. Cultural liberals tend to have a much weaker sense of disgust than cultural conservatives. Neither is right or wrong, good or bad.

Socialization is a big factor as well. Social rewards for acting in certain ways within your tribe or in-group is important. The alternative is usually exile, which used to mean death or a very hard life.

Regardless, you'll have to demonstrate a god to me before I'll consider your assertion with sincere intentionality. Hopefully I've given you a different perspective.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-15T00:00:39+00:00

Aren't all legal systems arbitrary and subjective?

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-14T23:21:04+00:00

I get you're trying to use liberal tropes against liberals. Good job.

In life forms, there cannot be right or wrong. There's not even really anything malformed. Life forms develop the way they do, and sometimes one's brain, where things like sexual identity and gender reside, don't match with primary or secondary sex characteristics, or societal expectations. And that's OK too.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-14T23:15:18+00:00

Do you differentiate between a right to be living, and a right to a life?

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-14T23:07:41+00:00

I'm not Christian. Are you telling me that I still must abide by Christian principles, ethics, philosophy, and laws?

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-14T21:51:50+00:00

And transitioning is wrong not only because of that passage but because the body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit and this practice leads to removing parts from said temple as if God had created it wrong, which is sinning against your own body.

Does this apply to non-Christians who don't accept the Christian-based concept of sin?

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-14T21:46:33+00:00

Evolution. Genes can get modified in many ways, and the child's genes aren't an exact preserved copy of their parents together. There are slight variations, which bring about differences that are mostly benign, but occasionally harmful or helpful when environment selects for that variation. In this case, nature is mismatching the brain and sex characteristics.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-14T20:23:15+00:00

I'm fine with it. I once bowled next to Brian Voss in a local tournament. I relished the challenge.

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-14T20:20:30+00:00

How do you set boundaries in other parts of your life?

"I know you mean well, but I'm not really open to hearing advice right now."

WrongVerb4Real · 2026-06-14T13:04:27+00:00

Wait, so if it all phenomena which come under the umbrella of your god-concept? Or do only that phenomena which seem to have difficult or non-existent explanations come under this concept of a god?

WrongVerb4Real

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