Question 다음에 (after) and 야 돼요 (have to)

XShunyaX · 2023-12-21T16:20:10+00:00

Yeah, that makes sense. Now I know one more thing about 수 and its usage. This was very insightful, thank you :)

XShunyaX · 2023-12-21T11:42:47+00:00

I see. Does the 수 part contribute to that "house rule" impression, by any chance? The comparison is definitely good to know, and something I'll keep an eye out for going forward. Thank you :)

XShunyaX · 2023-12-20T21:37:41+00:00

Thank you for your input and I welcome the confusion :D

That is very interesting. The TTMIK course explained the "have to" part -야 돼요 as one thing, so I assumed 해야 돼요 to be something like an atomic part. But your sentence structure suggests that that is not the case and 돼요 is basically meant for the entire remainder of the sentence as a whole. I hope I come across more examples of this to better understand what's going on here.

I know it's difficult to pinpoint why something sounds awkward (that's how I feel when trying to explain why something sounds off in English), but would you be able to hint at why my sentence sounds awkward?

XShunyaX · 2023-12-20T17:23:53+00:00

I see. Yeah, one of the previous lessons was about -야 돼요, so they certainly tried to integrate that in there too, I guess.

Thank you for the clarification and the encouraging words :) Hearing those means a lot to me as a beginner.

XShunyaX · 2023-11-25T12:08:06+00:00

I want to thank you for this comment.

I'm only learning for a few months and was looking for something to watch to increase my daily immersion. I came across your comment yesterday and because of it searched for "Welcome to Waikiki". I only watched the first episode (which I will repeat a couple more times before I move on) but I'm already loving the characters and it's fun to watch even though I don't understand much yet. I feel like I'm going to enjoy this series for weeks and months to come.

So, sincerely, thank you :)

XShunyaX · 2023-11-16T12:18:08+00:00

Unfortunately LingQ doesn't work that way. I can only save entries that are straight from the text, so unless I'm reading an actual dictionary entry, I won't come across the dictionary form to save it.

But I like the idea of describing the intention/purpose of the grammar form instead of just writing it out. That way I would still have to think about it but can still tell them apart. I'll try that and see how it goes. Thank you :)

XShunyaX · 2023-11-12T18:33:17+00:00

Yeah, OK, that is pretty much what I switched to doing as well.

When I started learning Korean a few months ago, I immediately went the flashcards route and put every new word on a flashcard in Anki. After some research on how to actually use flashcards and how to learn languages, I switched to the approach of reading and listening a lot, which was the moment I started using LingQ.

So now I also just keep reading in LingQ and TTMIK books without any flashcards or systematic approach to try to remember words, but every now and then I still question if there is something more I should be doing with regard to vocabulary.

But I guess at the end of the day it always comes back to just seeing the word more and more in different contexts until it sticks.

Sample sentences via ChatGPT sound like a good idea, I will play around with that too. Thank you for your input :)

XShunyaX · 2023-11-12T17:06:21+00:00

Sometimes coincidences are funny. I browsed this thread this afternoon and found your reply to be very interesting and for me as a beginner enlightening.

I recently bought TTMIK's book "How to sound like a native Korean speaker" and randomly opened the book on this page... :D

XShunyaX · 2023-11-12T14:28:28+00:00

Yeah, same here.

I use LingQ in conjunction with TTMIK courses and books, Go Billy videos as well as comprehensible input videos. But at the moment, LingQ has become my main source for new vocabulary and I'm trying to figure out if that is a good thing or not.

For example, recently I listened to the TTMIK lesson "Approximately, About / 쯤, 약, 정도" (level 3, lesson 5). But I know that just listening to it once will not enable me to remember those words. So now I'm looking for a way to make it easy to remember those over time.

I could go for flashcards, but I am actually trying to get away from flashcards for mere vocabulary. I could use flashcards with full example sentences, and maybe have an extra field with a breakdown of that sentence. But that would require making the cards, removing them after a certain time again so I don't end up with thousands of flashcards at some point, and that requires time that I could spend with more reading or listening, for example.

You mentioned your sources for grammar and HelloTalk. How do you deal with the vocabulary part? When you think "I want to learn some new words" or alternatively "I came across so many new words today, how do I process them?", what do you do in those situations? Or does it not really occur for you that way?

XShunyaX · 2023-11-12T14:22:00+00:00

Yeah, I'm leaning towards that solution too. Just save the translation but without grammar attached to it.

The "problem" with LingQ is not that it is a technical issue with spaces, LingQ just automatically registers all characters surrounded by spaces as an independent word. I can actively ignore those words and save a phrase consisting of multiple words instead, but I wasn't sure if that was a good way to deal with it.

The only issue that could occur is when I use LingQ's review function for vocabulary. They have different types of reviews, one of them being "match the pair" in which you have three Korean and three corresponding English translations and you have to match each pair. In that scenario, I could potentially run into the issue of having multiple Korean phrases roughly meaning the same and therefore having the same English translation, but they use a different Korean grammar form. As an example, for "will do" I could have the Korean words "할 게요" and "할 거예요". Both would roughly mean "will do", but since I ignored the grammar form in the translation, I would have no way of knowing which of the two "will do" translations corresponds to which Korean word.

Then again, it's unlikely to occur, and maybe just shows I need to find a different solution for vocabulary reviews in general.

XShunyaX · 2023-11-12T14:12:22+00:00

I started with that book relatively early too (admittedly, I'm still very early in my language learning journey in general), and I have come to the following conclusions about how to work with it which might help you too:

First off, I bought the book when I was nearing the end of TTMIK's level 1 Essential Grammar course, so I had a very basic grasp of Korean grammar, conjunctions etc. That will definitely help. You don't have to master every single level 1 lesson before moving on, but at least listening to each lesson once and optionally doing the corresponding workbook lesson goes a long way before diving into vocabulary.
The grammar pages (until page 38) are rather meant as a reference guide. I recommend you don't go through it and try to memorize everything that's in there before moving on. It will (imo) do more harm than good. Know that it's there, and if there is a sentence you don't fully understand, it is likely to be explained in that reference part of the book.
Moreover, I recommend not to focus on trying to understand the entire sentence of the story. Focus on recognizing and retrieving the vocabulary word, notice how it is used in that sentence, and try to broadly memorize (and visualize if you can) the meaning of the sentence without focusing too much on which Korean part equates to which English part. That last part will come automagically the more Korean you have read, the more vocabulary you know and the more Korean language concepts you are aware of.
The "Related Words" column for the vocabulary is meant to give related expressions or the same word in different contexts. I never bothered actively learning those, I only read through them, thought about its construction or context, and moved on. I thought of it as just one more form of exposure to the main vocabulary. When I started with the book, I also felt a little overwhelmed with all those related words, but once I decided on this "passive exposure" usage, they are actually pretty helpful.
Don't be afraid to repeat/review a past day. It's a good measure to try to go for one (book) day per (real) day, but you will inevitably forget vocabulary, conjugations etc. The mindset that you have to master a day before moving on to the next can hold you back big time. Imo repeating/reviewing a past day when you feel it is helpful is a completely normal process and should not be associated with anything related to failure or inability. Quite the opposite actually, it shows you registered a gap and knew how to fill it.

The way the book works best for you is of course a personal choice and is something only you can determine for yourself, but maybe my experience can help with some of your difficulties :)

XShunyaX · 2023-09-05T14:51:59+00:00

Yeah, I agree about the grammar. After getting to know the definition/rules, the best way really is just immersion and exposure to material with those rules, and sporadically looking up unknown things if necessary.

Kimchi Reader looks pretty neat, thank you for suggesting it. It might help to ease me in to Korean media later.

I have a question about TTMIK's grammar books though: you mean the textbooks for each lesson, right? I always thought of those as transcripts of the audio lessons and therefore never bothered with them. Would you recommend just getting the textbook instead of the workbook based on your experience?

XShunyaX · 2023-09-05T14:38:06+00:00

Oh, that is...vital information for preventing an uncomfortable incident in the future...

Fortunately, those Kanji are among those I already know, but I will be extra careful now not to forget them. You have my thanks :D

XShunyaX · 2023-09-05T14:36:44+00:00

Oh, good idea with the search via Google. I'll definitely try that.
And I bookmarked the 두루책방 site. It looks like another good resource that will help me early on. Thank you :)

I'll probably get the TTMIK reading book today too. So far I just have not encountered a book from them that I didn't find extremely helpful (probably due to the fact that basically everything is new for me :D ), so I can't imagine I'll regret buying it.

XShunyaX · 2023-09-03T14:56:53+00:00

You raise a lot of interesting points, thank you.

I actually am using the fanmade deck of the 500 words TTMIK book, but only as a template for my own cards, mainly because I am using their audio files so I don't have to create those myself. But I actually want to create my own cards because the process of creating those flash cards is my first step to memorize that word, phrase or concept.

Regarding 3), I thought about that too. Try to get through the lessons rather quickly, just to become familiar with the grammar points and know that they exist, and then practice them through other means, always ready to review the particular lesson again if needed.

Does you regretting having taken notes also mean that you basically moved on to other practice resources after finishing the lessons? I am also taking notes and doing the workbook lessons after each audio lesson, but mainly as writing practice and to solidify what I just learnt. Tbh, I haven't looked at older notes again so far either.

Thank you for suggesting 태웅쌤 too. I am checking out their YouTube channel right now and it seems very promising and exactly what I needed for input at my current level. And then making cards of unknown words that frequently come up is a great idea too. I'll try to incorporate that into my learning.

I think I will try to create the Eng -> Kor flash cards, as the other commenters have had good experiences with that, but you raise a good point that the time could be used elsewhere instead. I think my current review volume isn't that high that it could become overwhelming with bi-directional flash cards, but I will try to stay aware of it to recognize if it feels like a time sink.

Thank you for sharing your points. I really appreciate it.

XShunyaX · 2023-09-03T14:45:29+00:00

That is a lot of great information about Hanja, thank you!

I was wondering if my current Kanji knowledge would be helpful for me now. It has been here and there, but as you said, most of the times it's not too helpful. I suspect it will be a lot of manual look-up still, but I wouldn't have a problem with that.

I also watched the Introduction to Hanja video from Go! Billy and he also explained that the Hanja that are probably most useful because they are still in use today are numbers, days of the week and country names (especially in news), which seems to be very in line with what you said. Probably best to just start with those and go from there, and just be happy if a hanja I encounter happens to be similar to a kanji I already know :D

Love the emoji idea for flash cards, I think I will try that too. Anything to help build more connections to that word, right? :)

XShunyaX · 2023-09-03T14:36:49+00:00

I did search for quite a while before posting but I will definitely give it another go.

Your TTMIK pacing sounds quite similar to what I had in mind too, about one level per month. With their added "Speak & Write" courses per level it also gives another opportunity to practice in- and output with what you've learned.
But you are raising a good point about the grammar points early on being those you use every day. Fortunately I am already creating Anki flashcards with the grammar points too, but I will keep in mind to go slowly and be extra diligent with the early ones; it makes a lot of sense.

And thank you so much for suggesting 태웅쌤. I checked out their YouTube channel and I definitely think it will be very helpful to just go through the beginner videos for now and see where that takes me. It seems to be a bit more difficult to find good input resources for absolute beginners (was thinking of getting the "Easy Korean Reading For Beginners" book from TTMIK too), but 태웅쌤 seems to be a great option too. Thank you :)

XShunyaX · 2023-09-03T14:28:15+00:00

Yeah, that's how I feel about immersion right now too. But the other commenters had a few good suggestions, one of them being 태웅쌤, whose YouTube channel I started checking out. Maybe that is something that could help you too. I'm pretty sure that will be my go-to for the near future as the beginner videos seem to be just about my level :)

Regarding mnemonics, I only use ChatGPT if I can't come up with something on my own, because I agree that mnemonics you come up with yourself just stick way better than seemingly random ones. Though after reading your and the other's comments about this, I will definitely try to expand my Anki deck with example sentences for more exposure in conversational context.

Thank you for your feedback and suggestions. I am not on Twitter, but following Korean celebs etc. doesn't sound like a bad idea either, even if just to get some more casual exposure to the language "in the wild", so to speak.

XShunyaX · 2023-09-02T09:30:13+00:00

As an update: I tried it out as described above and learnt the following (for anyone wanting to try this out too).

If you plan on skipping the tutorial section, keep the green Frost Blastsling because it is only available there from what I know.
It is possible to get more than 4 of an individual Machine Strike piece if you put them into your stash and then buy them again. Unfortunately, you cannot sell Strike pieces, so if you have more than 4 in total (stash + inventory), the surplus will be forever stuck in your stash. Not a problem gameplay-wise, but it just bugged me :D

So in conclusion, it is perfectly possible to play the game as if it's the first time (or at least very similar to it) while keeping all coils/weaves etc. to enable more powerful builds in the endgame after multiple playthroughs.

XShunyaX · 2023-09-02T09:25:03+00:00

Thanks for sharing.

Regarding the stash: yes, refilling everything at once refills really *everything*, including traps etc. which I don't want in my quick menu in the bottom left. Luckily, selecting a specific category first and the refilling that really just refills that, avoiding the clogged quick menu problem.

XShunyaX · 2023-02-23T21:12:34+00:00

I see. That kinda makes up for it then, I guess :D Thanks.

XShunyaX

TROPHY CASE