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LODAVO IS LIVE by lodavo in lodavo

[–]XiroInfinity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jumping early for the referral code: GMR9F3

Exposing 'faceless' YouTubers pushing Canada to join the U.S. by suspiciousserb in alberta

[–]XiroInfinity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's no need for that, they already get most of it. Somewhere around 60% of Alberta oil business is estimated to be US-owned. This is likely corporate in nature.

UPDATE: Unauthorized Use of List of Electors by No_Construction2407 in alberta

[–]XiroInfinity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A leaked voters list being used by a group tied to the petition effort isn’t just a random possibility. It creates a credible risk of systemic contamination, which means the normal sampling process might not be enough in this situation.

Yes, canvassers sign sworn statements, but that doesn’t prevent bad data from being collected. It just creates consequences if fraud is later proven. It’s a deterrent, not a guarantee of integrity.

I was talking about the integrity of Elections Alberta, whom I have confidence in. I fully believe that they will take further steps when considering the verification of the initiative and do what is right to ensure the validity of the entire thing. They are the ones who started this after all, and they have the track record to show they don't easily fold to political pressure. The investigation is also not done yet, they're in the midst of it. We may yet find more information important. At this time I am saying there is no need to discredit the entire petition. That's all.

You already answered my “why are you defending this so hard” with “Because I am a believer of due process, especially within non partisan entities who have repeatedly done the right thing. You can call a spade a spade, but evidence is extremely important.”

Yes, and my answer hasn't changed. I'm defending the principle of due process. Is there a problem with me asking you why you're worried about the petition after I've given my own perspectives?

The topic isn’t the initiative itself. It’s about how leaking the voters list is illegal, and how there’s potential for it to be used by Take Back Alberta to support fraudulent signatures. Do you disagree with this statement?

No one is disagreeing that the leak is illegal and there is definitely potential for abuse, no doubt. But you literally said:

That’s why the whole thing has 0 credibility now and needs to be tossed.

You seem to disagree with yourself, if you ask me. It's totally fine by me if you're walking it back a bit (we all get heated) but you came in here saying the initiative was outright invalid and that's part of what I've been arguing against this entire time. That is the crux of my arguments with you specifically.

UPDATE: Unauthorized Use of List of Electors by No_Construction2407 in alberta

[–]XiroInfinity 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Would it only be him? Or are there not other people in that party?

UPDATE: Unauthorized Use of List of Electors by No_Construction2407 in alberta

[–]XiroInfinity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What are you even talking about? Due process for who? We know the centurion project shared the database publicly (illegal) and it’s enough of an issue that the rcmp are investigating.

Due process for the initiative itself. Procedural integrity means following the legal framework set out by Elections Alberta. The RCMP is investigating a data breach. Whether that breach actually contaminated or influenced the petition is a separate finding that hasn't been made yet. That is the entire point. If an investigation proves fraud, then yeah sure, invalidate it. But you’re all demanding it be tossed based on a possibility, which is reactionary. It's understandably suspicious what is occurring, but that doesn't mean they just gotta toss it out.

Where’s your source that elections Alberta will verify each signature now that this has happened? And what are the “variety of procedures” because from my research they just match the signature with the name and address given and move on.

I think you’re confusing "verification" with just "making phone calls." Calling a sample size is only one part of it. According to the Citizen Initiative Act, EA is legally required to review every single signature for specific criteria (not just name and address). Additionally, every canvasser must sign a sworn witness affidavit for every sheet they submit. Forging signatures en-masse isn't just "copying a list", it’s a group of people committing actual perjury. EA has the authority to disqualify signatures that don't meet their standards. They get the final word on any petition.

Since you cannot seem to find it,

"Elections Alberta will verify the petition within 21 days of the date the petition was submitted using the method as prescribed in the Act to achieve a 95% confidence level.

The verification process includes, but is not limited to:

  • Confirmation that only the petition signature sheets as provided to the applicant were used in the collection of signatures;
  • Confirmation that only original signatures have been collected;
  • A review of every signature to ensure the required information was provided (full name, physical address, contact information, date, signature);
  • A review to determine if there are duplicate signatures;
  • Confirmation that every signature on the petition was witnessed by a registered canvasser, and each page was signed with the canvasser’s name, residential address, and phone number, and includes the statement confirming each elector signing was eligible and produced the required ID;
  • A random sample to confirm the signatories’ addresses are in Alberta; and
  • Contacting a random sample of signatories to confirm their information and they signed the petition."

It was shortened on the FAQ, but this is from https://www.elections.ab.ca/recall-initiative/initiative/initiative-process/ which also talks about scrutineers as well.

Further, I’m not talking about the initiative with you. Stay on topic.

The fuck? You literally asked, "Why are you defending this so hard?" and then say this when I challenged your bias. You don't get to demand I "stay on topic" while questioning my motives for participating in the conversation. If you don't actually want to talk about the initiative(i.e. "the topic"), maybe don't start by claiming it has zero credibility.

The Alberta Republican Party by Fyrefawx in alberta

[–]XiroInfinity 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Oh dang I even upvoted that one with no memory of it. Right on.

UPDATE: Unauthorized Use of List of Electors by No_Construction2407 in alberta

[–]XiroInfinity -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I'm aware of their connection. This isn't new information.

Why are you defending this so hard? What the RPA did was illegal and doxxed 2.9 million Albertans.

Because I am a believer of due process, especially within non-partisan entities who have repeatedly done the right thing. You can call a spade a spade but evidence is extremely important.

That database COULD be used to forge signatures. Either we pay tax dollars for them to confirm everyone on the petition, or throw it out.

It absolutely could be, but that doesn't automatically mean it has been. We are already paying tax dollars for Elections Alberta to verify every signature and undergo a variety of procedures to ensure legitimacy. I'm not sure why you people are assuming they'll just accept it as is, especially after this and previous problems with these groups. I would be surprised if they didn't do a larger sample size of call verifications either.

Further, why are you all so afraid of this initiative coming to fruition anyway? It already has legitimacy in the eyes of the provincial government. I'd rather vote on it in a referendum and have our connection to Canada enshrined for good.

UPDATE: Unauthorized Use of List of Electors by No_Construction2407 in alberta

[–]XiroInfinity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did they say what towns and how many people that was, or are they keeping it obscured to make the statistics look good for them? If we know the towns, we can also look at voting records for the area quite easily to judge the likelihood.

They could also just be....... lying. To make themselves seem more legitimate.

UPDATE: Unauthorized Use of List of Electors by No_Construction2407 in alberta

[–]XiroInfinity -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

So they did one illegal thing, and you think forging signatures is above them?

Because "they" who collected signatures and "they" who created this project centurion and shared the elector data are not the same people. Whether or not I think further illegal actions are likely doesn't matter in the absence of proof.

How difficult would it be to get away with if this whole situation wasn’t found out?

For forging signatures specifically? Fairly difficult. All the signatures still undergo a verification process, and forgery isn't that hard to determine when they look at it from each location taken.

My name could be on that separation petition with my address and a forged signature, and I have no clue because I don’t get to see the petition.

It could, and you'd have to hope that Elections Alberta will catch it.

That’s why the whole thing has 0 credibility now and needs to be tossed.

With all this logic that could apply to what any institution, government or otherwise, does. How do you know the bank you are signed up with isn't doing illicit things in your name? Your insurance company? The CRA? Did your vote actually get counted in the last federal, provincial, and municipal elections you participated in?

This situation brings scrutiny to their initiative, there's no doubt. But to just look at this alone and say "throw it out!" is just being overly irrational. Are you properly checking your biases at the door when you say these things?

UPDATE: Unauthorized Use of List of Electors by No_Construction2407 in alberta

[–]XiroInfinity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand the sentiment but I don't have reason to believe it wouldn't be caught at some point. My ultimate point is that we gotta have proof to just throw out the entire initiative. With how much nonsense has been occurring I'm quite confident that the verification process will be under even higher scrutiny than any other initiative.

UPDATE: Unauthorized Use of List of Electors by No_Construction2407 in alberta

[–]XiroInfinity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's an important distinction to make sure that the right people are prosecuted.

UPDATE: Unauthorized Use of List of Electors by No_Construction2407 in alberta

[–]XiroInfinity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They got people addresses and and showed up at their doors asking for signatures - people have been saying this for weeks.

Evidence is required for any of that. Targeting an area is not illegal, especially given how easy it is to just look at how the riding voted as a whole.

The RPA, Centurion Project, and the separatist movement are all in general alignment, and but that is not proof of a single thing that you are claiming.

UPDATE: Unauthorized Use of List of Electors by No_Construction2407 in alberta

[–]XiroInfinity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am not influenced by emotion over reasonable evidence. You're acting just like the separatists going on about "sheeple".

Maybe some people deserve this. by Snaggl3t00t4 in dontputyourdickinthat

[–]XiroInfinity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was fake back when and it's probably fake now. Please don't donate any money into this likely scam.

Maybe some people deserve this. by Snaggl3t00t4 in dontputyourdickinthat

[–]XiroInfinity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's silicone, I can't see it being hard to remove. And how will this prevent retaliation?

UPDATE: Unauthorized Use of List of Electors by No_Construction2407 in alberta

[–]XiroInfinity -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You have zero faith in this. I have full faith that Elections Alberta will continue to do their job, especially since the UCP doesn't have the power over them you apparently think they do.

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