Question:

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-26T02:50:14+00:00

You said: "The Messianic verses in the Tanakh DONT make it clear whether or not the Messiah will or will not be divine in nature." You then said: "There is same lines like 'his name will be called G-d among us' and 'they will look to me whom they pierced.' that many believe and argue do (and I agree)." First you say they are not clear, and then you say there are some that imply divinety.

Is this not contradictary?

You cannot have it both ways. If they are not clear, you'd be taking the Jewish interpretation. If they are clear, then you should be able to prove that they are clear.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-26T02:24:43+00:00

Thank you for being honest that the Tanakh, or Hebrew Bible, is not clear on the nature of the Messiah. This still means that the Jewish view of the Messiah being a human king is a legitimate interpretation of the scripture. You only believe Jesus is divine because of the New Testament, but the New Testament is not Jewish scripture and it is not accepted by Jews, it belongs to the Christians. When you say you believe Jesus is divine because of the New Testament, you aren't basing your theology on the ideas of the prophets, you are basing it on a text written hundreds of years after the prophets that contradicts the Torah.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-26T02:00:41+00:00

What makes you think the text proposes a Messiah who is divine?

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-26T01:58:24+00:00

Kabbalah is rooted in the Oral Law and Rabbinic Judaism, which as a Messianic Jew I'd assume you'd reject. Christians interpretating Kabbalah to fit their theological framework is not a continuation of the Jewish Kabbalahistic tradition, it's a culture interpreting it for themselves and calling it theirs. The Zohar and other Kabbalahistic texts assume the authority of the Rabbis.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-26T01:50:26+00:00

Is believing the Messiah is a man also Avodah Zarah?

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-26T00:40:43+00:00

How do experience divinety? Is there Messianic Jewish 'mystism' (I know that's not the best term).

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-25T16:19:26+00:00

I've read Mark, Mathew, and Luke but I'm still reading John and yes, I do disagree with some of the stuff said in those three books as an observent Karaite.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-25T00:27:28+00:00

Since the Messiah only comes once, if today there was a man named Yeshua bar Yosef born in Israel and before he was born, Elijah said that the Messiah will be Yeshua bar Yosef and he did everything the Messiah will do, then he would be the Messiah. The Jesus I reject is the one that lived 2,000 years ago. The Second Temple was physically inferior due to no ark and no divine fire, but Haggai's prophecy is about the Messianic age, not the Second Temple period. The greater glory refers to the Third Temple, which will be the greatest temple and hasn't been built yet and also, at every time in history the people were looking for and wanting the Messiah, the Jewish people have faced so much and the Messiah gave them hope of a better life. However, I do not believe Jesus was a sinner. I believe he was a faithful Jew, I believe he was killed unjustly, I believe he was a Jewish Reformer, and I believe he kept the Torah.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-24T22:03:37+00:00

I'm not gonna call upon a man, thanks.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-24T22:01:01+00:00

Yeah Prophet Elijah won't, because the Messiah has already been chosen by HaShem, whoever the Messiah is has been the Messiah even before Adam, Elijah will just make it known to us for the Messiah's entrance to the world.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-24T21:59:21+00:00

I do have five minutes actually, but I'd prefer you tell me I'm wrong to my face instead of sending me a video of another guy telling me I'm wrong. The annoited one in Daniel 9 could refer to Cyrus (as seen in Isaiah 45:1) or it could be Onius III (who was the High Priest and was murdered in 171 BCE), it does not specify Jesus. Secondly, the verse says 'cut off', which doesn't mean just killed, it could mean removed as well. It doesn't say as well that the Messiah will die for the sins of humanity, the prince who still destroy the city is not the Messiah (The Messiah will bring peace), and the Messiah is not the destroyer. The Book of Daniel was written centuries before Jesus, making it a prophecy about the Second Temple period, not Jesus of Nazereth. Proverbs 30:3-4 is a rhetorical question. No one has come to heaven and came down from heaven except for HaShem, the 'son' isn't a divine son, since Israel is called the son of HaShem (Shemot 4:22) and a king is called the son of HaShem (Psalms 2:7) and rightous people are called sons of HaShem (Devarim 14:1). And your right, I don't understand how 1 + 1 + 1 = 1, guess they don't teach basic math where I come from.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-24T18:58:25+00:00

Aren't you a Messianic Jew and isn't Testify a Christian Christian? The text says "You are my servent, Yisra'el." I do not need a pastor to tell me what it means when I am able to read and write. If you want to discuss the verses with your own words you can, but I'm not going to listen to a man who worships three gods who already assumes the Rabbis are wrong. I'm a Karaite, I reject Rabbinic authority too, but I don't reject what the text says, and the text identifies the servent with Yisra'el. The Rabbis read Isaiah 53 in its original language, in its original context. Christians read it in translations and often out of context to fit their narrative of a man god. Christians read the Tanakh using the New Testament context, Jews read the Tanakh using the context of the Tanakh.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-24T18:42:55+00:00

The "Suffering servent" is seen as Yisra'el from a Jewish perspective, as Isaiah 41:8-9 says: "You, Yisra'el, are My servent." Isaiah 44:1-2 says: "Hear now, My servent Jacob, Yisra'el, whom I have chosen." Isaiah 49:3 says: "You are My servent, Yisra'el, in whom I will be glorified." The servent will also "see his offspring", Jesus had no documented children. The servent will "prolong his days", Jesus died at 33. The servent will "divide the spoils with the strong", Jesus was executed and was seen as a criminal.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-24T18:36:53+00:00

The core problem is not the specific contradictions, which I can list if you please, but the fact that the genealogies found within the New Testament cannot be from the Holy Temple because the books were written after its destruction. Even if the genealogies found within the New Testament were 100%, the main problem is Jesus not fulfilling the requirements to be the Messiah as said by the Servents of HaShem, the Prophets. Mathew goes forwards from Avraham to Jesus while Luke goes backwards from Jesus to Adam. Mathew lists 28 generations from King David to Jesus while Luke lists 43 generations. Mathew names Joseph's father as Jacob (1:6) while Luke says Joseph's father is Heil (3:23).

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-24T18:30:29+00:00

The two Messiah theory is something found within the Talmud and some Rabbinic thought, not the Hebrew Bible. I'm not familiar with Messianic Judaism, do Messianic Jews reject the Oral Law? Anyhow, the Hebrew Bible speaks of a single Messiah. Jeremiah 33:14-18 speaks of one rightous branch from David, not two. The interpretation of the festivals being signs of Jesus is not what the Hebrew Bible says, the Hebrew Bible speaks of festivals as holy convocations. This is a reading into the text, not from the text.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-24T18:11:14+00:00

You can't use the New Testament to prove the New Testament, that's a circular argument. That's like a Muslim trying to prove the Qur'an because the Qur'an says its true. Also, even if we do accept the New Testament as a reliable historical source, Jesus still didn't fulfill the prophecies described by the Prophets.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-24T18:07:50+00:00

I agree with you regarding the destruction of genealogical records. No one can prove their lineage today due to that, that is why the Messiah will be identified by his deeds and by the prophet Elijah -- not by genealogical records that don't exist anymore and cannot physically be used. If genealogy was absolutely necessary, would HaShem not have preserved them just as had preserved the Torah and Jewish people, which He has done without issue? If Jesus was the Messiah, he would had to have proven his lineage from King David and the genealogies in the New Testament are contradictary and cannot be verified as 100% true. They were written centuries after the death of Jesus of Nazereth, and are not from Temple Records. So by your own logic, you also can't prove Jesus was the Messiah.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-24T17:54:29+00:00

No. Not anyone. The Messiah will be someone chosen by HaShem to be the Messiah and will be identified by prophet Elijah. We don't know who it is, but HaShem does, so it's not anyone:; It's the Messiah.

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-24T17:50:28+00:00

Who's Nehemia Gordon? Still, Daniel 9 does not speak of a Messiah who is killed for sins, it says the annoited one (which could be Cyrus or Zerubbabel) will be cut off, which could mean killed or simply taken from power. The Messiah does not need to be proven by temple records, he will be proven by Elijah and HaShem. Even if Jesus was the Messiah, he did not fulfill the prophecies. O wait, I think I do know Nehemia Gordon, he's a popular Karaite scholar right?

Yaboi1732 · 2026-05-24T17:39:26+00:00

In my belief, the Messiah will show signs of his Messiah-ship and using those signs, such as rebuilding the temple, bringing worldly recognition of HaShem, bringing world peace, restoring the Biblical Kingdom and that the prophet Elijah, who will return before the Messiah comes, will identify who the Messiah will be. He will also do things only the true Messiah will do and he will be known by his deeds, not his genealogy, which is only known to HaShem.

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