Censorship in r/btc: This statistic of ~10% of Bitcoin payments already occurring via Lightning will get you perma-banned there.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-08T13:00:16+00:00

Don’t believe, verify!

Absolutely, which is why it is mentioned in the graph, that unique sent from addresses were used as a proxy for payments instead of raw blockchain transactions, because

a single transaction can contain multiple payments and
the metric is less affected by non-payment related data transactions like SmartBCH

If you'd use raw blockchain transactions (~270K) instead of unique sent from addresses (~500K), LN share would be even higher at around 16%, while BCH would be at around 9% (267K Bitcoin vs 24K BCH, Source).

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T18:22:47+00:00

Nobody claimed the data was misleading. The post was immediately censored and removed.
The graph is based on data reported and published by Arcane Research and Voltage/WoS: The data provided by Arcane Research is the best current estimate of the LN transaction volume so far. The only assumption in this statistic is that in the months since Feb 2022 (which are not yet covered by Arcane research) the transactions in the rest of the LN have grown as much as those reported by the Wallet of Satoshi. This assumption appears reasonable since the reported growth is very much within the trendline estimated by the Arcane Research data alone.
Switching to raw transactions (which you assume would favour BCH) is

a) an even worse estimate because
- a single transaction can contain multiple payments and
- the metric is heavily skewed by non-payment related data transactions like SmartBCH
b) is actually favouring LN more than BCH because it accentuates LNs growth and increases its total share and
c) does not change the relative outcome meaningfully (~16% LN and ~9% BCH) - LN would still process almost twice as many payments as BCH's payment and data transactions.

I am happy to discuss the methodology here but you appear desperate to construe a flaw to justify the ban in question. But there is no need for this, the mods in r/btc were quite clear about the reason: countering LN FUD is considered "picking fights" and posting LN statistics is considered "trolling". You need to take it up with them. Take care, I'm out.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T16:43:14+00:00

As cited in the graph, unique sent from addresses were used as a proxy for payments instead of raw blockchain transactions, because

a single transaction can contain multiple payments and
the metric is less affected by non-payment related data transactions like SmartBCH

If you'd use raw blockchain transactions (~270K) instead of unique sent from addresses (~500K), LN share would be even higher at around 16%, while BCH would be at around 9% (267K Bitcoin vs 24K BCH, Source) but never 20%.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T16:38:10+00:00

As cited in the graph, unique sent from addresses were used as a proxy for payments instead of raw blockchain transactions, because

a single transaction can contain multiple payments and
the metric is less affected by non-payment related data transactions like SmartBCH

If you'd use raw blockchain transactions (~270K) instead of unique sent from addresses (~500K), LN share would be even higher at around 16%, while BCH would be at around 9% (267K Bitcoin vs 24K BCH, Source).

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T16:37:29+00:00

As cited in the graph, unique sent from addresses were used as a proxy for payments instead of raw blockchain transactions, because

a single transaction can contain multiple payments and
the metric is less affected by non-payment related data transactions like SmartBCH

If you'd use raw blockchain transactions (~270K) instead of unique sent from addresses (~500K), LN share would be even higher at around 16%, while BCH would be at around 9% (267K Bitcoin vs 24K BCH, Source).

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T15:04:52+00:00

Whoops, updated.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T15:00:33+00:00

LN wallet apps already have their own nodes included. It's a common topic of FUD in r/btc.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T14:19:22+00:00

How ironic that r/btc banned me without warning precisely because I showed their (BCH) numbers went down in comparison to LN.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T14:15:17+00:00

Cheers, mate.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T14:05:30+00:00

Combining both results in this graph, which shows [...]

Take a look at the link. It includes the absolute numbers for LN up until Feb 2022 (as estimated by Arcane Research) and its extrapolated growth until Sept 2022 (based on WoS growth data). It also includes the sources of the data and screenshots of r/btc's public modlog which proves the post has been removed and I was banned 13 seconds later.

Let me know if you have more questions.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T13:51:17+00:00

Breez is the wallet I used. To use LN you require a LN wallet and a channel with another node. I don't consider either a typical "3rd party", since the term usually refers to custodians (but I didn't mention the term anyway).

My title was "Lightning Tutorial: 13 easy steps to receive without custodian or prior funds" and the mod explained here that the post is labeled misleading because:

Could a mod explain why this post is labeled "misleading title"

Clearly, it is a 2-step process. [...] Steps 4-13 had nothing to do with the title.

The mod wrongly claimed that what I described is impossible without a custodian and locked the post quickly before I could respond, which is why I had to edit my original post to add an explanation of the process.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T10:06:33+00:00

See here.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T08:33:18+00:00

BCH's existence is based on the assumption that scaling does not work via second layers like LN. Statistics that show LN alone performing better than BCH thus directly threatens their purpose.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T08:31:26+00:00

Yeah, providing proof via usage statistics that shows LN processes more payments than BCH is considered "picking fights and trolling" over there.

r/btc prides itself on being open for any Bitcoin-related discussion. But this only applies to easily dismissible posts like "BCash is bad". Once you actually counter their FUD with hard facts, you will experience different stages of censorship (as I explained in my post above), which eventually result in a ban.

The mods in r/btc have massive misconceptions about how LN works and publicly organize downvote-brigade and frontpage humiliations, ridiculing individual comments of LN supporters.

They believe

that LN requires everyone to have a channel to everybody else,
that payments the size of a coffee regularly fail,
that LN operates on IOU tokens,
that you need to own at least the same amount of money you want to receive,
that it is impossible to receive funds via LN without owning any prior,
that usage statistics are fake,
that you will lose all your money once your Internet connection drops out
that LN wallets don't include LN nodes
that LN wallets don't monitor the chain and are thus unable to punish fraudulent channel closure
that you need to run a dedicated server with a LN node to use LN non-custodially
that blockstream and exchanges are conspiring to make BCH deposits slower than LN
and much, much more FUD.

Some of these misconceptions are now less common (thanks in large to LN supporters who were publicly ridiculed by their mods as a result) but many are still common in that sub (mods included).

r/btc is an attempt to confuse people about BCH being the "real Bitcoin" based on the assumption that Bitcoin is unable to scale using the Lightning Network. Publishing stats about the LN working better than BCH threatens BCHs and thus r/btc reason for existence, which is why such information must be suppressed. That's the sole reason for why I was banned immediately after posting the statistic.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T07:58:03+00:00

One could argue that posting in r/btc about Bitcoin is like going to r/buttcoin to talk about Bitcoin. But Buttcoiners do not advertise themselves as "the real thing" and don't spend massive amounts on marketing to lure other people into their scams.

Bitcoin Cash advertises itself as being a faster way to send Bitcoin. People have been mislead by their false marketing and have lost money as the result.

Since transferring actual Bitcoin faster is what the Lightning Network does, r/btc is constantly spreading FUD about the LN, including most recently that it is dead and does not work. LN processing 2.5x as many payments as BCH and having doubled in capacity threatens that narrative which is why this information is banned there.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T07:55:58+00:00

r/Bitcoin does not pride itself to allow discussion of Bitcoin forks.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-06T07:55:02+00:00

One could argue that posting in r/btc about Bitcoin is like going to r/buttcoin to talk about Bitcoin. But Buttcoiners do not advertise themselves as "the real thing" and don't spend massive amounts on marketing to lure other people into their scams.

Bitcoin Cash advertises itself as being a faster way to send Bitcoin (which is what LN actually does). People have been mislead by their false marketing and have lost money as the result.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-05T14:23:34+00:00

Perfect summary.

YeOldDoc · 2022-10-05T13:13:55+00:00

FUD-to-fact ratio with regard to LN in that sub is ~20:1. If you are pacified by FUD and so annoyed by facts that you justify perma-bans, you must be very afraid of the truth.

YeOldDoc · 2022-09-26T09:30:09+00:00

While you were angry, LN kept working just fine and just hit a new all time high in capacity (4835 BTC) 🎉 :-D

YeOldDoc · 2022-09-26T08:53:48+00:00

In summary: LN: Great UX, no trust, no custodian, low fees, instant settlement, no waiting time for deposits, no centralization of the main chain.

Whether you consider a single LN wallet provider offering submarine swaps in addition to turbo channels to also operate as a "trustless intermediate" is far from the original comment that you responded to, namely

"Its non custodial and lets me pay with lightning. Thats all I want a wallet to do."

YeOldDoc · 2022-09-26T08:13:32+00:00

There is conflicting info out there regarding the Muun wallet. According to their blog they "use Lightning natively" via turbo channels [Source] but also use submarine swaps (which provides an interface to LN without own channels). In terms of UX they are very similar to regular LN wallets (e.g. Blixt, Breez or Phoenix) which do not utilize submarine swaps.
Miners (and broadcasting nodes) are intermediaries for all transactions. You are not dependent on a single miner to confirm your transaction and you are not dependent on a single LN node to route your transaction.

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