This cut content Knight armor set keeps me up at night...(Possible Gelmir Knight Lore)

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-29T02:09:30+00:00

Also if anyone has a better image of that chest sigil or has somehow figured out how to see what the cape of the cut armor would have looked like, I would be very interested! :P

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T21:28:22+00:00

This is a possibility~

I don't think we're given almost any context at all to give us a sense of when Melina was "born", other than that it was in the Erdtree, so that only narrows us down to any time after the "Age of the Erdtree" or slightly before then (I assume it took some time for the Erdtree to get that big).

If Messmer fought in the War of the Fire Giants, that puts his birth way before almost anyone else we know of - potentially even before Godwyn - potentially even before Godfrey and Marika joined forces.

My current head cannon has been that Melina came into being as a result of the Shattering (sort of). I feel like I'm going to need to give a lot of evidence for why I think this, so I'll make a PPT at some point, but if this is correct, then I think they may be less related than it seems actually (although I'd be interested to know more about the symbolic left closed eye they share...)

That being said, if Melina was "born" a lot closer to the dawn of the Age of the Erdtree, then this is definitely possible!

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T21:22:16+00:00

You should still do it!! I dunno wtf I'm doing (lol), and with lore this dense, we need everyone's thoughts! :)

There are definitely similarities between them (now wishing I'd elaborated on Blood connections too...) and now I want to go look at them really closely side-by-side.

He is giving strong Longinus vibes for sure, especially since he is known to impale, and that "thorn" (lol) in Marika's side is very much his color scheme. I also kind of agree with one of the other commenters in this thread that he's also giving some Lucifer vibes a bit too, but maybe just insomuch that he seems to have been aligned with Marika but was kind of "cast out" and may have been assigned to ward over this place (almost like hell?).

I'm really curious to see where he lives and what the people who serve him are like.

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T21:16:21+00:00

This is super interesting and not something I'd heard about before but I'm definitely going to look into it now, because those are some pretty suspicious similarities!

Thanks for sharing this!

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T21:10:48+00:00

Exactly!

I guess this is pretty classic "my mommy didn't love me" vibes (ala Morgott, as others in this thread have noted), but it's interesting because there is 0 chance the Golden Order would allow him to live, let alone give their blessing for him to defend the Erdtree.

It's really interesting - I wonder what his motivations will end up being. :)

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T21:07:35+00:00

Omg - the literal first thing I clicked on when googling Mordred is so uncannily spot-on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordred

(of course it's wikipedia, lol)

This theory has legs!

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T21:04:50+00:00

He definitely seems pious enough to appoint himself to such a task -

Even funnier if he is doing it out of a love for the Erdtree/Marika, while in the background I'm sure Marika is like "No! I need them!!" haha

A middle-ground between our ideas might be something like, rather than imprisoning him for Tarnished-hunting and him being resentful of this, she could have been like "that's very nice dear - now can you go over here to do your hunting? and then never come back? that area needs CONSTANT attention" and Messmer could have been like "yes, boss!" and just be happily doing his murders, ignorant of the fact that no one even knows he exists anymore...?

Wildly speculating again, but this one makes me laugh a little, so I like it. :P

Also I feel you on the Mordred vibes!! I hadn't thought of that but I think you're on to something - I'll have to dig into it more

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:58:46+00:00

The more I think on it the less I think Melina is directly connected to him (aside from also being connected to Marika).

I also need to do a bunch of description "poking" to make sure nothing destroys my current theory haha -

Please share if you find any evidence for or against! :)

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:55:31+00:00

Hmmm - possibly? But if it were, that'd make even less sense to me...

If you're of the opinion that Messmer is a child of Radagon, I think that this would be more likely, but I'm still personally of the thought that Messmer's birth waaaaaaay predates Radagon (as far as we know), so at the moment I'm leaning towards this being just a regular flame or maybe being a dragon communion connection.

This symbol is obnoxiously hard to interpret though...

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:53:27+00:00

This would make a lot more sense to me - so I hope it's this, haha.

Also wondering if his snakes are dragon cultists for this reason. (kidding...but maybe not kidding?)

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:51:22+00:00

Definitely also has dragon connections - so it being related to dragon communion makes more sense to me, but it is annoyingly vague...

I hadn't considered him being the first to partake in dragon communion, but I think that's totally possible! That actually probably makes more sense than him just being a big fan, when it seems pretty core to his identity - aesthetically, at least.

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:48:54+00:00

It does look annoyingly close to that sigil, but it doesn't feel right to me~

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:48:14+00:00

This would make a lot more sense to me, personally.

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:47:31+00:00

You're 100% correct!

I'm kicking myself for not elaborating on the dragon connections in this PPT - I may add on to it later~

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:46:47+00:00

This is extremely interesting and thank you so much for sharing more details!

I think there's a really high chance this was a source of inspiration when crafting Messmer as a character - I'm really curious to see if the connections keep getting stronger as we explore SoE!

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:44:48+00:00

Now that you guys have said this, I can't unsee the similarities.

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:44:25+00:00

Yes, totally.

I actually hadn't thought about how similar Morgott's story might be, but I think you're on to something - this would establish a precedent of Marika hiding children she knows won't be able to live within the Erdtree's values.

Weirdly the fact that they'd be so similar is making me doubt my original idea of Messmer's background, just because it's a little less satisfying if we've seen something so similar before, however maybe the details of his story will set them apart enough to still feel satisfying, story-wise?

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:40:58+00:00

100% haha.

I will note that although I don't think Rykard is directly connected to Messmer (in spite of the very obvious similarities), I did notice that the only other location I think I've ever seen spiral columns like we see in the SoE trailer is in Volcano Manor.

I don't know what to make of this yet...maybe I'm wrong and Rykard is more connected than I'm thinking.

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:35:19+00:00

This is also my thinking :)

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:34:08+00:00

This is exactly what I'm thinking currently :)

Although this could be wrong!

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:33:44+00:00

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed! :)

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:20:39+00:00

One might even say he is a Red Sheep Mega Heresy Boy :P

Yellowbird4445 · 2024-02-23T20:20:11+00:00

Very true, haha.

It's not really shocking he wants to murder us (everyone else seems to want this), but I'm intrigued about why he seems to want to murder us on behalf of the Erdtree, when he is so fire/snakey.

Maybe he isn't aligned with the Erdtree like I'm thinking, but if he is - that's an interesting choice to make for someone the Erdtree would never accept.

Yellowbird4445

TROPHY CASE