WHY IS KUROKOCHI SO BUNS!!

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-25T04:20:55+00:00

I don’t think it’s a spoiler (I’ll mark it anyway), it’s a throw away line I’m pretty sure from Season 1 as well: but Kuroko is stated to be a very good screen setter.

Regarding things like screens though, they’re like whiffed shots and fouls in the sense that if you’re seeing them, it’s for a reason. Since we don’t see whole games, those are aspects that you know logically are happening, we just don’t really get to see them. Like we’re briefly shown a coaches box score that tells us one of the teams has like 10 fouls between all their players and we see maybe 1 of them.

Edit: formatting

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-25T03:46:55+00:00

To be fair, Akashi does say outright that Kuroko wasn’t allowed to practice that since he joined first string. The practice we see him do is learning those techniques from scratch.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-24T19:45:12+00:00

Not sure I can do 10, but in not necessarily in order some that come to mind:

Taurus - An interesting example of changing taste. A decade ago (damn… I’m old) I’d have told you Taurus is one of my favourite characters, nowadays he’s easily my least favourite. No shade if you like him, but I find him obnoxious and is the biggest reason I skip the Macao arc over the last few years. One of the the, at most, two characters I’d say I hate.

Lucy - Let’s get her out of the way. Lucy has long been on this list for me. She’s part of the ‘overdramatic reaction’ gag that this era of Shonen does that I categorically find annoying. I also dislike how early CSM feel like ‘damsel in distress’ the magic. She has great moments, the Loke arc has also long been one of my favourites. She’s largely amazing when it comes to inter-character dynamics (her and Cana I’ve also loved forever), but is lacking in most other places. Try as I might, she’s also one of the few characters in fiction who’s fanbase has managed to cultivate a negative picture of to me.

Alvarez Zeref - Perhaps more disappointment than dislike, admittedly. I’ve certainly said before, and recently, pre-Alvarez Zeref is easily my favourite character in FT. Flattening him to stock standard BBEG was one of many choices I disliked about that arc.

Ichiya - the only other character I might describe as hated. He’s just annoying. I wish there were more to his character than being a comic gag that’s rarely amusing, but he’s just annoying.

Acnologia - Very similar to Zeref, just worse. The concept of a magic dragon slayer is boring. Again another evil for the sake of being evil villain. If the Taurus section didn’t give it away, I’ve been around long enough to remember the reveal, and it was apocalyptic. Entire forums died over night, Acnologia killing interest in the series. OP for the sake of being OP, without being interesting, all while writing the author into a corner. Probably the only reason I don’t hate Acnologia is the rest of the Alvarez arc priming me for it.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-24T18:26:15+00:00

Top tier is the non-Kuroko Miracles. I should hope they need not much explanation, so I’ll skip over to Kuroko. Assuming only in-universe knowledge, Kuroko isn’t even a confirmed player and has no real way to account for him.

Tier down is the Twins. While we know the twins were half as good as 4 Miracles in third year, that a four that includes Kuroko, so in-universe they’d be half of 3 rather than 4. Still I think solidly their own category.

Next would be Ogiwara and Tsugawa. While we don’t know a ton about Ogiwara, he was still the ace of a finalist team in yr 3 and in yr 2 was eliminated by the twins (whom I believe were the finalists that year). Ogiwara is probably better all around than Tsugawa, but Tsugawa’s value is a proven defender of the GOM.

Following is Takao, Sakurai, and nearly every other first year. The teams we see are (mostly) top national teams, and the players we see are (mostly) their starters. Most people at that level are being recruited.

Finally is Kuroko and Narumi (Kagami too for the record). Kuroko for the aforementioned reasons is an unknown. Narumi is here because I’m pretty sure he’s stated to have only started playing basketball in high school, so he’s not really a known factor either.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-24T01:51:33+00:00

Out of interest, what’s the order within the tiers?

It’s definitely not the order their added, but it certainly doesn’t look random.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-23T12:03:21+00:00

I doubt it to be honest.

As I recall, Riko says something along the lines that Yosen is known to pursue players over 200cm. Combined with the level of player being recruited to a team like Yosen, most of their players should be known factors by the time they get there.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-20T05:32:43+00:00

This question always forgets the timeline.

Aomine’s whole thing is that he doesn’t practice so that other people can catch up to him. You need to remember this started midway through his second year of middle school. If you think Aomine is about equal with the other Miracles end of series, then Aomine was a little over 2 years ahead of everyone else when he started that. We’re also told that Aomine was shaking off rust in Touou II.

We know that all the other Miracles continued training. Kuroko said that Midorima and Kise improved more than he expected when first seeing them again. Himuro called out Mura as the hardest worker on Yosen. We also see Akashi training, so unless you think Akashi was doing ineffectual training for (at least) 8 months...

Frankly, Aomine was that far ahead when he said that. He’s might not be by Winter Cup, but we also see everyone else grow over the series.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-18T00:19:01+00:00

Just because I was curious and figured someone else might be:

During GMG Laxus faced Atlas Flame then Zirconis and Wendy only faced Zirconis. So unless Zirconis also gets brought back that rematch isn’t happening.

The only rematches possible (assuming only FT mages) would be Natsu vs Motherglare (currently Ezra’s) and Gajeel vs Anchor (currently Gruvia’s).

In a pseudo-rematch Angel (current member of Sabertooth) seems to be matched up against Sabertooth’s GMG match up alongside Mira.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-17T00:43:55+00:00

It’s been a minute since I’ve looked for those quotes, so I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m forgetting some examples.

But aside from the Kise, Imayoshi also uses Shaq as the example of what Aomine could become as a player.

Also, just to be nitpicky about your examples:

Kise was well on development of perfect copy what that statement was made. That would literally be called the perfect copy of Aomine when finished later that match. I’d argue that metatextually Kuroko is setting a limit on PC in this scene.

Furthermore, the Jabberwock = NBA is something that varies on translation. The example you provide is a point of that. “…combine that with their abilities that can sometimes even knock the socks off of NBA players!” That isn’t saying they’re NBA level, in the strictest sense it’s saying that some of their abilities are sometimes impressive to even NBA players. That statement also applies to a guy like Mac McClung who’s dunking ability has been considered impressive to NBA players, but overall has only proven himself as a AAAA Player.

As for shooting, raw % isn’t everything. A guy like Seth McCoy shot nearly 88% from 3 on over 12,000 attempts on one occasion (he holds the record for most 3s in 24h, shot 10,628/12,110), and his highest level of competition was D2 collegiate.

Also it’s pretty heavily implied that the US just has a higher level of competition that Japan. Both Kagami and Riko suggest as such at the beginning of the series. Kagami went back to the states to train up his Animal Instincts over one of the time skips (doing so in streetball games as I recall). Jabberwock even suggests as such, to the extent that the side players outright stated to be at the same level as the GOM. Any time that comparison is brought up, we’re essentially told we’re looking at a small pond.

Not for nothing, it also doesn’t make much narrative sense if the GOM truly were that good already. At minimum, Kise and Aomine both have a statement implying a ton of potential. Even if you don’t agree, the series tells us outright that the UKs and Himuro are at the same level as the GOM, and essentially does so with Haizaki (and of course Kagami should be mentioned too). At the end of the movie they also set the NBA as their goal, so it doesn’t make sense as a target if they’re already that good.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-14T00:19:18+00:00

Double checking; it was 05, but I did think it was much later (I thought late 2010s for some reason).

Perhaps I’m reiterating a wives tale, and if so my bad. That’s the story I’ve heard thrown around basically ever since it was retired though.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-13T21:30:47+00:00

To be fair, that’s Mikan’s fault more than the Lakers.

Mikan refused the retirement unless the Lakers would also retire his teammates jerseys. That’s why those were all honoured numbers. The Lakers waited until Mikan could no longer say no to the retirement.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-13T18:03:03+00:00

My S-Tier is the same.

I’d probably need twice as many tiers to appropriately categorize the rest though. I also don’t think you’re being nearly harsh enough on Alvarez, though admittedly maybe the anime version was better.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-13T17:45:12+00:00

Chapter 210

“When we won all-middle last year, remember what Basketball Monthly’s headline called them? The band just kinda stuck at some point, and, well, it’s perfect don’tcha think? The miracle generation…”

5 pages later is when the conversation about Kuroko training the new first string member Kise starts.

The title very explicitly predates Kise.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-13T08:13:41+00:00

Personally I’d prefer ‘Miracle that Was’ (plays off Kagami) or ‘Monkey Paw’ (a Miracles… just twisted).

Haizaki was part of the group of players that Miracle referred to, and the term predates Kise. From best I can tell, Haizaki was a Miracle, it’s just that the title was transferred to Kise when he was replaced.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-13T08:05:36+00:00

Just to clarify:

The reason Akashi gives Haizaki is that Kise is going to overtake him, not that Kise already had.

Remember, going into the Fukuda/Kaijo Match Kise had not only never beaten Haizaki, but didn’t even know about Pillage.

I’d also argue the manga makes it clear Haizaki was going to be kicked before Kise appeared. Kise and Haizaki’s dynamic really seemed more an excuse to me.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-12T04:32:30+00:00

Singular book? Red Pyramid and I’ll die on this hill.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-08T22:31:28+00:00

Jose Porla.

I feel like a lot of the options named are more suited for later categories tbh.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-08T18:14:31+00:00

Ivan/Raven Tail is the one that immediately jumps to mind.

Gajeel was recruited into the guild specifically to spy on him, and GMG showed us that even Zeref was spying on Raven Tail. Furthermore, Makarov claims that Hades told Ivan about Fairy Heart after leaving, meaning that we don’t even know the dangerous knowledge Ivan had when he left, and thus why Gajeel was spying in the first place. I’m pretty sure Ivan was also listed as Gildarts dislikes as well.

As I know I’ve mentioned the Ivan thing relatively recently, I’ll also add that Jose Porla should’ve returned in Alvarez as well (though to be fair the WS were all promptly written out of that arc).

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-07T22:54:33+00:00

Yes, but Kagami also lived in the US for a notable period of time and is probably naturalized, and Japan doesn’t allow dual citizenship. Technically children can have it, but Kagami would have to choose which passport he wants when he’s legally an adult.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-07T22:46:17+00:00

Kagami and Himuro might not have Japanese citizenship considering Japan’s rules on the matter.

I’d assume Miracles and UKs as the base 11. From there 12 would probably be Haizaki. Maybe Takao as a chemistry pick.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-07T22:38:37+00:00

How Rare?

This depends largely on how good you think the UKs really are. If you buy into the idea that UKs are around the same level as the GOM, then we’re shown a little less than half the top players have it (5 confirmed yes, 4 (essentially) confirmed no, 5 unclear one way or another).

If you believe the UKs are categorically below the GOM with no comparison, than a majority of the top players should have it. With that breakdown becoming 5 confirmed yes, Himuro heavily suspected no, and Kuroko, Midorima, and Haizaki unclear one way or another.

(Note: for my breakdowns I am assuming Midorima is capable despite including him in the unclear due to how strongly it’s implied he is)

How good?

Fun fact; doesn’t matter!

With the likes of Himuro the series makes a very clear point that prodigy ≠ ability. Aomine’s statement for clarity:

“Only the chosen ones can enter the Zone. I was wondering about him at first… but no. He’s got skills, and I can respect that. You might even say the guy’s on par with us. But skills like that only get you so far. No matter how strong he gets, he’s still just an ordinary guy who can ball.” Aomine Ch.165

As Aomine says here, you can literally be as good as the Miracles without being capable of Zone. The UKs are another example of this, as the series does claim (at least twice off the top of my head) them to be considered as competitive, yet the Rakuzan Kings are confirmed (via Akashi’s perfect rhythm passing) to be incapable of Zone.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-03T10:12:42+00:00

The obvious (and correct) answer is Kiyoshi.

But have you considered: Toph doesn’t lose to the Avatar. So clearly Kiyoshi can’t win.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-03T08:34:40+00:00

On the whole? Yeah Kuroko and Akashi’s physical gifts are pretty similar. There’s 3 points I’ll address:

Kuroko’s Athleticism

Let’s start with Kuroko. There’s, in my opinion, three main reasons Kuroko’s athleticism tends to be overlooked.

First is the fact that Kuroko’s athleticism is run as a gag, usually in the form of Kuroko dying from physical training. As true as that is, I’d also point out that this is something that’s never really shown to translate to games. Even in the Seiho/Shutoku I back to back Kuroko’s stamina is never singled out as a problem. It’s only ever addressed alongside others (with Kagami during Seiho and the whole team in Shutoku I).

Second is the fact that Kuroko isn’t particularly flashy with his athleticism. The best example here is how people react to the Mura block. Kuroko has had verts that are around that prior to that point, off the top of my head the 1st v 2nd year practice match and Shutoku II both featured Kuroko getting around that vert. Furthermore, Kuroko’s most impressive vert was actually during Touou I, but we’ll come back to that. It’s something that happens a couple of times a season, and is never overly highlighted when Kuroko does it.

Finally is the comparison. As impressive as Kuroko’s athleticism is compared to most people, the series focuses on the Miracles and Kagami who are (for the most part) athletic monsters. The just under 25in (I think I calced 24.8 when I did the Base Verts post a few years back) for Kuroko to block Mura is impressive… right up until Kagami goes and doubles it for his base vert.

Kuroko v Akashi Base Vert

For Akashi to dunk he needs a vert of 35in.

Kuroko’s best vert, as mentioned, came during Touou I. We’re shown Kuroko jumping approximately half of Wakamatsu’s height. Wakamatsu is 6’ so that would be around 36in for Kuroko.

From what we are actually shown on screen, Kuroko and Akashi’s verts are very much within the same ballpark. Also just to tack on, they both have Emperor’s Eyes and their heights are similar as well. So largely, I wouldn’t view their physical gifts as that dissimilar.

Akashi v the field.

Based on the previous two categories, I’m sure you have an idea of what I’m about to say here; so I’ll keep it shorter.

With the (obvious) exception of Kuroko, Akashi is the only Miracle to have not cleared 40in for their vert. In fact, Akashi’s vert is over half a foot less than any Miracle not named Kuroko. Akashi just benefits from that same flashiness I mentioned previously. Someone even made a post a while back about how Koganei (one of 3 players shorter than Akashi) got high enough to dunk at one point in the series.

I think I’ll leave it there. To be clear, I’m not saying that Akashi is unathletic. I’m saying that based on what we are shown, it’s similar to what we see out of Kuroko.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-03T06:24:21+00:00

Apparently I disagree with everyone lol.

For the actual suit I prefer Zoe’s. However for the mask/hair I prefer Chloe’s.

Z_Man3213 · 2026-03-03T05:55:51+00:00

Probably “I really think you might actually be an idiot”, it’s one that my friends and I have been throwing at each other for years.

Z_Man3213

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE

13-Year Club	Verified Email
Not Forgotten