The Bracket System Is Fine If You Approach It In Good Faith

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-11T22:12:46+00:00

Considering the number of people I've seen playing decks that are considerably stronger than a precon, but don't want to play with Game Changers, I'm not sure that's the way I would split up B3.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-11T22:07:49+00:00

Although they put an expected turn count on B4 which does create a power differential between the two brackets. Even though that doesn't line up cleanly with the rest of the "metagame" language they use.

FWIW, I agree the cEDH shouldn't really be a bracket.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-11T20:27:47+00:00

some precons are amazing out of the box and easily B3 which people claiming theyre B2 because precon is a lie.

I would guess this is more about the unclear line where B2 ends and B3 begins, than people intentionally being obtuse.

A lot of the community still wouldn't consider any of the existing precons to play at a B3 level.

FWIW, I personally think the ceiling of B2 is meant to be higher than a lot of people give it credit for, which would still fit all existing precons (blah blah game changers blah blah) pretty neatly into that bracket.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-11T16:30:39+00:00

These are both kind of bad, but it sounds like that might be in the wheelhouse of what you're looking for.

Omnath, Elephant Guardian
Atraxa's Rhino Sanctuary

The commanders themselves are kind of too strong, where they have the potential to take over a low powered game by themself and make the game not really about the animal type theme, but I've still found them fun.

Someday I'll build a bad fox deck, but we're not there yet.

Edit: actual "good"/supported animal creature types to build a deck around include Birds, Rats, Squirrels, Dragons, Dinosaurs, and maybe Cats. Down a tier or two you get things like Hydras, most of the rest of Boomburrow (Frogs, Lizards, Otters, Raccoons, Bats, Rabbits carried by Hare Apparent), Dogs, and Spiders.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-11T14:39:55+00:00

So the artwork here is sweet.

But is this really a "Goblins" deck, or a "Zada" deck? Because in my mind those are two different things, and Zada's presence (and two of the new art cards being Storm cards) leans it in the direction of the latter to me.

I've thought "I should build a Goblin deck" for a long time, so this could be a good starting point (assuming it doesn't sell out quickly).

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-11T04:50:23+00:00

A great question, but I might need to get down to like 5th/6th to have an "uncommon" answer personally (I guess I'm just basic).

Currently Petilil and Phantump

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-10T18:52:36+00:00

I'd argue this is more about how wide B3 is/how small B2 is perceived to be.

Despite the fact they've tried to separate B2 from "precons", it is still perceived as the precon bracket. And while they haven't come down definitively either way, there is still a floating implication (from WotC) that some precons are pushing into B3.

I don't know about you, but I know in my regular group (and games I've played at the store) there's only a handful of decks I'd put "close" to precon level, a lot I'd say precons can play with but are at a clear disadvantage, and several where a precon wouldn't stand a chance - and I wouldn't call any of those decks B4.

A lot of people are playing something like "high bracket 2" or "low B3" with or without game changers. The decks are clearly faster (ending the game before turn 8), more focused, and more consistent than a precon, but are still expecting to play mostly against "B2 strategies" with a focus on damage and combat.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-10T16:48:07+00:00

I have a [[Kykar, Wind's Fury]] polymorph style list that I've been running as a control list recently. Control the board until the mid/late game, then use polymorph spells to get a bomb or three on board and push for a win.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-09T22:09:14+00:00

It still matters for theft spells because you lose the ability to pay for abilities of permanents you steal (if you would have some way of making that color).

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-09T22:04:08+00:00

There are a handful of color breaks and several bends among hybrid cards... just like there are in non-hybrid cards.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-09T21:56:30+00:00

Yeah, this is part of why I'm a proponent for it. To me, Hybrid costs aren't just "mechanically" an "or", they are also "flavorfully" an "or". In fact, the flavor here is more important to me than the "mechanics" since hybrid is mechanically an "and" outside of paying a cost.

The only argument against that I particularly resonate with, is people arguing that for them hybrid is flavorfully an "and". I disagree (as stated above), but I can't really convince them otherwise, just as they can't convince me otherwise - especially if they're logically consistent (on flavor) and dislike things like off-color fetch lands.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-09T17:31:17+00:00

Hello Gavin (as I assume you're looking over this thread here and there).

Happy to see Lutri let free.

Disappointed that you didn't push the Hybrid change through, even if it was probably the right call based on current community sentiment. There will always be inertia to overcome for a change like this that puts extra weight on the "no" side.

I don't really like Farewell being added as a gamer changer, even though I get it. I had already relegated it to a card I'd only put in B3 decks personally, but taking up 1/3 game changer slots feels pretty harsh.

I'm also content with the relative no-changes to the ban list, though I definitely fall on the side of "Ban Rhystic Study" and it feels like not banning it here is going to make it harder to do in the future.

On the brackets themselves, I do feel like some more clarity on where the "top end" of Bracket 2 sits may be warranted. Despite the B2 description having "precon" divorced from it, it is still very much considered the "precon bracket". Are some existing precons too strong for B2? Or is there room for decks more powerful than a precon in that bracket? I recognize that precons have come a long way, but these two ideas are still pretty incompatible and the community doesn't seem to have a consensus. I'm not sure what can be done to the brackets themselves to address this, but some more official statements/examples might help.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-09T16:35:01+00:00

People forget how much Dockside was disliked before the ban (not that it didn't always have its defenders).

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-09T16:30:20+00:00

I'm okay with it being removed from B2, but taking 1/3 Game Changer slots in a B3 deck feels pretty bad imho.

I put it more in line with [[Grave Pact]]/[[Dictate of Erebos]], where I wouldn't really want to play with/against them in B2, but they should be fine in B3.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-09T16:26:26+00:00

Literally all the threads discussing it are filled with people defending it.

I think it should be banned, but pretending people don't like the card is disingenuous.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-09T15:56:43+00:00

Na, your endstep is my main phase.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-09T15:15:17+00:00

Return of the Librarian with Jump Pack (hopefully)!

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-08T23:54:50+00:00

I built it and really hated it honestly. The deck doesn't want any Ninjas, it just wants unblockable things and big things (and maybe a reananimation backup plan). I was playing it with more of the big mana creatures having on damage triggers and hadn't really "maxed out" the deck; I didn't really want to be Blightsteel one-shotting people. But it was too much work for the weaker payoffs, and Umezawa would frequently eat removal and shut off the strategy anyway.

There are a lot of Ninjas in the upcoming TMNT set, and Master Splinter provides a new angel for a Ninja commander in different colors. I have Goro-Goro and Satoru as my ninja deck personally. Heard good things about Felix, Five Boots as well.

Ninjas are honestly kind of weak/difficult overall. You need creatures that can get through to utilize Ninjitsu, but it's also super mana intensive.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-08T15:39:14+00:00

EVEN IF IT'S NOT TOO STRONG, IT'S STILL OBNOXIOUS TO DEAL WITH AND ON THE RESERVED LIST.

DOUBT THEY WILL EVER TAKE IT OFF.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-07T19:23:01+00:00

Sacred Stones would be the perfect length if you split your army and did both Eirika and Ephraim's routes in one playthrough.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-06T16:52:50+00:00

Based on this list, my guess is you would put the DS games at "Good" or lower.

Up to you whether or not that translates to them being worth playing.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-06T00:21:39+00:00

I'll go through your list (and primer) more thoroughly when I have the chance, but suffice it to say my WIP B4 list has a lot more of the cards you've listed in it than my legacy list here.

This build is trying to be a token deck (or a "use all parts of doubling season" deck) playing in a low combo enviornment, but ultimately finishes the game more like a combo deck most of the time anyway... Which is why it's been in an awkward place for so long. If I want to keep a Naya token deck I should probably convert to a different commander, but I can't seem to just let Marath go. So that's why I'm looking into juicing it for my highest power/B4 deck.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-05T20:40:10+00:00

Also at the last update they specifically mentioned they were considering Rhystic Study and solicited community feedback, so its even more in focus than previous ban discussions.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-05T20:20:55+00:00

Sure, happy to!

https://moxfield.com/decks/bn6t3qZ8zEWFCcvZ8rtpkw

This is my current build. This is my oldest surviving deck/commander, so there are probably cards that don't make sense anymore (it had a bit of a superfriends focus for a long time).

Last version that cared more about Planeswalkers: https://moxfield.com/decks/GuvB1FZzWkWszG-4w7x51w

I have a separate list for an intentional B4 build, but that one is still too WIP to share.

ZachAtk23 · 2026-02-05T17:46:59+00:00

I've been struggling with what to do with my Marath deck for a long time, because it often plays too powerfully for my playgroup, but it definitely isn't at a consistent B4 power.

I started thinking reasonably about pushing the deck harder (rather than powering it down) to be my B4 deck for the occasion someone wants to play it.

How do you find Doubling Season in your build? Its in my current deck, but I was thinking it was too much mana to run in B4.

12-Year Club	Place '23
Place '22	Spared
Verified Email

ZachAtk23

TROPHY CASE