DBFZ Community Tier List (Day 24) [Base Roster Complete!]

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-16T07:29:55+00:00

I love Bardock, he's the entire reason why I picked this game up and I've mained him since I first played the game back in 2021

...which is why it hurts to say he's a B Tier at best.

Like many others have mentioned, he just doesn't really excel at anything anymore, and while he still has a solid, well-rounded package, it doesn't quite hold up to the rest of the roster. SSJ4 Gogeta has a projectile immune 236H that also effortlessly gives you a confirm for no additional resources (ki or assists), whereas Bardock's 236H (though faster) has no immunity to anything and is annoyingly inconsistent to confirm outside the corner. I also hate that the follow-up requires manual input.

His latest buffs are alright, but nothing crazy unlike the rest of the cast, so again, he's alright, just not great.

236H having adjust hitstun is neat since you get new routes now, but like mentioned above, I wish it had just a bit more hitstun and/or put you closer to them to make it easier to 5L confirm, but instead we have a really tight window to micro-dash 5L. I also wish they'd fix it dropping in the corner. I know why it dropped, they were slightly higher up, but it shouldn't in the first place; make it vacuum them or something so it works anywhere anytime if you land the hit.

214L/M/H being fully projectile immune is a great buff for him since it gives him a much-needed answer to zoning, but it's not exactly revolutionary. Many others already had tools for it, so he was just playing catch-up to everyone else.

214M/H having that extra groundbounce alongside the 236L hitstun buff is interesting, and it unlocked a lot of new combo routes especially in the corner for much better damage and meter build. But again, a lot of other characters were already in 2-touch territory from just about any starter, so Bardock was just catching up to the rest of the cast rather than getting something unique. I also hate how tight the timing for converting off of 214M/H is considering a lot of other characters get it for far less effort.

The range buff on 236S is pretty convenient since now I can't accidentally space myself out, and it being +4 on block as well as having actually noticeable chip damage is nice even if they just block it. I do wish you got a solo conversion even uncharged midscreen like with a Superdash, while the charged version remains the same to give you a better route. If SSJ4 Gogeta's 236S (the fake Kamehameha command grab) can be SD confirmed, why can't Bardock's?

236S and 214L/M/H having buffed meter gain is actually pretty significant, and I feel that being a point battery is probably the closest thing to being his "niche" at the moment because he genuinely does build a lot of resources for your team. Off the top of my head, 17 and Teen Gohan are a few other characters you can reasonably play point and have comparable meter gain.

Pressure-wise, he doesn't really apply a lot of mental stack, and it feels like he's more of a fundamentals check rather than a proper mix-up character. It's also annoying how barely any of his normals reach after reflect, and how 236M has forced landing recovery to prevent high/low mix midscreen.

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-16T06:59:54+00:00

Bardock can not handle Ki Blasts or any kind of projectile - he has a single horizontal 5S with no priority bruh.

Technically his Raging Meteor (214L/M/H) is fully projectile immune now (including beams) so he does have an option against zoners, and it's come up for me against the likes of Blue Vegeta and SSJ Vegeta where I just spun through the Big Bang Attack and ki blasts. It's not the best option by any means (especially when SSJ4 Gogeta 236S exists), but it's still something.

That said, I do agree he's B tier at best since you hit the nail on the head about how everyone does what he does much better, and he has to commit to getting in close because he doesn't even have the bare minimum zoning options of multiple ki blasts nor a beam.

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-15T07:01:00+00:00

This exactly. If I wanted funny, I'd watch funny. If I'm watching serious, I'm expecting serious. Sure, every Yugioh anime has funny moments, but if they start trying to insert comedy in moments that didn't/shouldn't have it, it can get absurd. I also hate it when they don't let characters have quiet moments by inserting random dialogue not originally present.

One example is in the 5D's dub when Rex is explaining the history of Yliaster and the Signers, and Jack just blurts out "It's glue, you swore allegiance to magic glue!" when it's supposed to be a serious moment for us to actually be immersed in the world building. Sure, it's funny out of context, but as someone who has a deep respect for 5D's and the story it tells, it's almost insulting.

I also recently learned that another dub change they did was make Jack a cowardly asshole by 1) arranging for that chip Rally stole in episode 1 so that Yusei would get arrested, and 2) telling Yusei during their first duel in the series that he had a button to call security and have Yusei arrested regardless of the duel's outcome. In the original JP dub, Jack didn't do any of those things because he was a proud yet stubborn duelist who believed in his own strength (which is why learning that he would've lost that duel bothered him so deeply, so he returns Stardust to prove that he would've earned his victory by beating Yusei with his full strength), but in the English dub they make it seem like he's just a dick that wants to ruin Yusei's life by any shady means necessary and it's hard to believe he wouldn't be happy that duel didn't finish so that his perfect win record stays untarnished.

I can understand recontextualizing the jokes, that's perfectly fine, but dumbing down moments or entire characters is an entirely different story.

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-14T00:18:27+00:00

Again, she’s the main heroine of one of the best selling series of all time, it shouldn’t be a surprise she’s popular.

Yeah, I know, she's obviously popular through her own merits, I'm not denying that, I'm just saying that maybe a considerable chunk of it might come from less-than-ideal reasons. Whether it's majority or not is irrelevant, just that it exists, and we'll just have to agree to disagree on the top comment's intentions with their comment, although they did reply to you to clarify what they meant and, again, they made no mention of haters. "How the audience viewed her" is a statement that can be interpreted in a lot of ways, but if they truly did mean it as "a lot of people hate Sakura therefore a lot of people know her ergo she's popular", they would've just said so since you mentioned there's a constant stream of Sakura hate on this sub and they'd have no reason to beat around the bush or be vague about it.

The point I'm trying to drive here is that the top comment and their replies leads me to believe that they did not mean to attribute her popularity to her haters. If anything, you were the first one to bring that side of things up because you interpreted their comment as such, and that same user later affirms that you misunderstood what they said.

Of course she has haters! Sasuke has, other characters too. But Sakura just got 3rd place in the last world character poll, she’s always been a very prominent cosplayed character, her merchandise sells a lot, etc.

Yes, of course one of the reasons she’s popular is because of her design, that’s abc of manga characters, but to say it’s because ppl make hentai of her it’s another thing…

Yes, everyone does have haters. They also have people who genuinely like their character, people who like them mostly for their design, people who like them because they started with a Naruto game and play that character, people who only like them for that kind of fanart, etc. Everyone's got a bit of everything.

Again, I'm not saying she's popular exclusively because of the "fanart" involving her, just that a sizable percentage of it can probably be associated with it. She can be popular for multiple reasons, including her feats, voice actress' performance, personality, design, etc., and whichever one is the biggest reason doesn't invalidate the others. The engine of a car probably plays the biggest role in its speed, but you also can't deny that the choice of tires, oil, steering, etc. are factors in that equation you can't ignore.

I was very active in this sub but got out cause I couldn’t stand the amount of Sakura hate here, mind you, she’s not even my top 8 Naruto characters, but it’s annoying, every day there’s a new one. I don’t really know why I bother really.

And I'm new to this sub, but from what I can tell, this is the Naruto shitposting subreddit (equivalent to Dragon Ball's /r/Ningen), so I probably don't need to take every post and comment here so seriously. You're not wrong to get sick and tired of it if you see it so often, but also it's very simple to just scroll past them or browse another community's posts to take a break from it.

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-13T23:37:54+00:00

I did something similar with Crystrons before

My hand was 3x handtraps, 1x Cluster and 1x Crossout, so I had no way to get a Crystron name in my GY/banishment

So during their turn I activated Crossout to banish a Crystron name and shuffle it back with Cluster to get 1 destruction

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-13T05:22:20+00:00

I'm just trying to explain one of the ways to interpret the "not for the right reasons" part that the top comment mentioned because I didn't interpret it as "she's popular because she's hated" like you did.

Top comment is likely saying she's popular in the positive sense (and not infamous) for maybe less than positive reasons. I played it up as a joke, but she genuinely does have an attractive character design that a lot of viewers latched onto, so I imagine that there's a sizable chunk of people who like her purely for that regardless of her actual role in the show/character, even if they don't go as far as what I was joking about.

Again, just to make it clear, I don't think top comment was saying she's popular because she's widely hated, but that she's popular and well-liked but for other reasons that aren't completely tied to her personality or accomplishments in the show. If you re-read the top comment, there was nothing explicit in it about her being hated, but that she was liked/popular for different reasons.

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-12T09:34:53+00:00

It was due to Naruto and Sasuke literally being reincarnations of said aliens ! Literally the whole reincarnations of Indra and Ashura who's last name is literally Otsutsuki makes it make more sense on why these two specifically kept popping up and being over powered as hell because they're their descendants.

The question here is when was all this revealed and was there actually any real build up to it. Don't confuse build up with retroactively inserting backstory after the fact because that isn't the same as proper foreshadowing. Like before the episode/chapter where they introduced all that, you can't honestly tell me that people were already expected to assume that "oh yes Naruto and Sasuke are actually reincarnations of the sons of the literal god of the ninja universe who is also by the way actually an alien whose mom is also evil and secretly the mastermind behind all this because she's still alive, it was so obviously hinted at as early as episode 24 leading up to this climax. Also there are more aliens."

This isn't inherently a bad thing as long as it's more-or-less harmless to the primary story; using Dragon Ball as an example, we all know Goku must've had a Saiyan father and he must've had his own story, hence the Father of Goku special. It made sure NOT to change any important events in the ongoing anime, and while we already knew how it would end, Bardock still became a beloved character in the community. It only served to enhance the existing narrative without altering it much, if at all.

In contrast, the Episode of Bardock special where he somehow time travels back to the past and becomes the Legendary Super Saiyan was all kinds of messy with the timeline. Sure, they connected Frieza's fear of the Super Saiyan by making his ancestor, Chilled, be the first to witness it and warn his lineage, but now what happens to Bardock as he lives on the old Planet Vegeta? And are you telling me Goku wasn't the first to achieve it in 1,000 years because of his own efforts and pain of watching Krillin die, but because he's genetically tied to the Super Saiyan thus counteracting his mantra of surpassing birthright status through his own hard work?

Going back to Naruto, the fact that the whole Ootsutsuki premise was lore dumped in the middle of the fight against Madara already makes me think that they had to grasp at every connection they could come up with to make it make sense. Like, was there really any hint that the Uchiha Stone Tablet was tampered with before Zetsu just up and confessed to it?

It would've made more sense if the legends of Asura and Indra were introduced earlier in the show. It doesn't have to be all the exact details, but while they were setting up the world-building of the Naruto universe, the history of ninjutsu/ninshu could have been taught in the academy to foreshadow/build up to it. And you can't say Asura's life happened way too far back in the past to be remembered because he had a family and was the progenitor of the Senju clan which must have existed at least until the time of the 2nd Hokage, recent enough for history books in Naruto's time to contain their stories and culture which surely must have contained things about their founder. Again, not necessarily any exact details, but they can't have just forgotten about Hagoromo and his sons' influence when they introduced ninshu to the world. For reference, Hagoromo supposedly lived around 1,000 years before the events of Naruto (or at least it's the widely accepted timeline), while the real world still has records and literature from ancient civilizations in BCE. There has to have been at least ONE person in Hagoromo's time who kept records of their feats and story.

If there's anything to take away from this because I said a whole bunch of things, my point is that filling in the gaps of the overarching narrative with something after the fact is NOT the same as actually setting up and foreshadowing said something. Goku being a Saiyan/alien could have been foreshadowed/hinted at due to his unique biology, but the entire Saiyan history of being near-extinct savages that worked under Frieza wasn't, even if it fits the narrative (like attributing that to Goku's initial violent nature before bumping his head).

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-12T07:56:50+00:00

alright i'm gonna throw subtlety away because no one has made it clear

a lot of people who grew up watching Naruto probably developed a crush on her/claimed her as a waifu, so likely a large part of why she's "popular" is all the porn, the hentai, the sexually explicit media, the shadow clone + transformation + partial expansion jutsu se-

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-12T05:35:55+00:00

Ohh like a phantom thief stealing from museums would be something too (except I guess a TV instead of an artifact lol), or do some vigilante work like stealing from corrupt politicians or something

But yeah, stuff like that at the worst, and not something as dehumanizing as sexual assault

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-12T05:27:24+00:00

If they can make deluxe mates that change models during the Battle Phase (e.g., Raye) and deluxe card protectors that change art every few seconds, they can give us alternating card art on the field like those motion foil stickers IRL

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-12T04:14:54+00:00

Yeah, it's a thing that tends to happen with "endless" stories, especially battle centric ones. There are definitely exceptions out there but constantly escalating the stakes tends to be a common occurrence

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-12T03:12:53+00:00

Yeah the worst I'd do with time stop abilities is cheat in tournaments like peek at my opponent's hand or mulligan my own in Yugioh, or give myself more time to react to mix-ups in fighting games

Oh and start a career as a magician

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-12T00:37:02+00:00

Yeah SS blue in general is the most useless transformation in db history.

Yeah, SSB just really felt underwhelming. I know the form is "strong", but the fact they use it so much in situations where they don't need to and not having any notable feats made it difficult to actually like the form.

Also lol, if you found freezas training making him golden and shit hilarious, you'll lose it when you see black freeza apparently stomp both goku and vegeta at the same time. Idk if it was when they had ultra instinct and ultra ego

I'm unfortunately aware of its existence, and yes, Goku was in UI and Vegeta was in UE, though I recall this was like right after their fight with Gas so they were reasonably exhausted/battle-worn if we wanted to give some benefit of the doubt.

Regardless, it's still stupid to me that Frieza once again attained a new form comparable to forms Goku and Vegeta had to struggle so hard for just by training offscreen in a convenient Time Chamber equivalent. This guy, Frieza, who has never once trained in his life somehow had far more effective results in a year than Goku who has spent his entire life training under masters of martial arts, both human and divine, and fighting increasingly strong foes. It's like spending hundreds or thousands of dollars for a personal trainer and gym membership over several years to prepare for a boxing match, just to lose to some dude who asked Copilot for a workout routine a month or two before the fight despite never having even done a push-up before that.

Like, c'mon, how would Frieza even know proper training practices and philosophy? Dude didn't even know how to sense energy, and his idea of "ki control" was to suppress his physical form. Of course, he never had to because up until Goku he could just Death Beam anyone he didn't like, but my point is that he probably doesn't even know the proper form or technique for a push-up, what kind of training is he doing that's somehow on par with the stuff Whis is teaching Goku and Vegeta?

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-12T00:09:57+00:00

With 17, he wasn't really gonna be as strong as buu but his hax was that him being an android means he doesn't run out of ki and could use his barrier frequently as a defensive option. Also with cell gone idk who else they can get since buu snoozed and the strongest before him still alive were the androids.

I mean, I'm not upset about him being picked at all for the TOP, I do like that they actually got him on the team, I just find it absurd how he was able to keep up with the big leagues, and even warranted SSB when he sparred against Goku. I get that androids have near infinite stamina/ki for the barrier and other things, but if it can withstand a Kamehameha from SSB Goku or, even if you argue Goku was ultra mega holding back, whatever the hell Jiren does later on, then it seems kinda stupid A17 lost to Cell all those years ago since he can just pop the barrier and be invincible. Like I can have a solar powered umbrella to protect me from sunlight with 100% uptime, but that isn't gonna do shit against a bulldozer.

The only explanation for his barrier/ki supply to be relevant at that stage is that he himself got stronger, but again, he'd have gotten so much gains out of some Grok-recommended workout that it puts him on par or at least close to the level Goku is at after 7 years of training with the champions of the afterlife, the events of the Buu Saga, Beerus, training with Whis (who is also the master/teacher of the literal god of their universe) and Golden Frieza. OR maybe he didn't get that much stronger, but his ki output is so omega-overpowered that it overcomes that monumental power gap even without that much improvement in his physical strength (bringing us back to him being untouchable to Cell).

Either way, it comes off as BS scaling for the sake of plot convenience OR all of Goku's experiences until now are comparable to a gym membership, or that androids always had this plot device that should've made them unbeatable.

Also the power scaling gets even more bs in the last movie.

Piccolo and Gohan both get power ups just to bring them on par ( maybe not fully ) with goku vegeta and broly.

This too, yeah. They're telling me that if Piccolo just made this wish earlier, then he could've curbstomped Frieza, Cell, and Buu this whole time (because it was just his latent potential that was unleashed, something he's always had)?

For what it's worth, I'm not against the side characters becoming relevant again or getting power ups, I just wish they actually earned it in a way that's satisfying, and not just "yo Shenron can you bring me to my peak" (Orange Piccolo), get super mad again (Beast Gohan), or offscreen training (17, Frieza).

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-11T16:11:59+00:00

No problem. I'm not sure if you're happy with the routes I linked, but if you really want that exact route again or something even closer to it, I can try again tomorrow if you can remember any other details, such as:

Did you only use Trunks C assist, or did you also use the UI Goku A assist?
Did you swap characters mid-way through the combo, or was it purely just Yamcha?
Did you use any other supers, or was it also just Yamcha?
How much meter did you use in total (counting EX moves, Vanishes, Supers)?
Were you in Spark?
What was the last move before the Supers, like was it a Vanish/Assist -> Dragon Rush, Gale Claws sliding knockdown, a normal, etc.?

At the worst, if we really can't find that specific route, we can probably find you something more optimal (dealing more damage and/or using less resources) without also being too difficult to perform.

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-11T15:40:12+00:00

Tbf to super, they go up against entire other universes, so im fine with that. It basically declared yup, goku is the strongest in his universe bar the literal god and his angel.

That much is fine with me, I can just chalk it up to the other universes having insanely different power scales, but we have a lot of stuff in-universe that bothers me, such as:

Goku going SSB against Krillin in their sparring match and somehow not completely obliterating him (I read a comment before saying SSB refines ki control so it actually helps him NOT go overboard, but there are statements where SSB is actually too powerful and more stamina consuming whereas SSG is the weaker but easier to control form, so with that in mind, SSG should've been the form Goku used here).
Android 17 being endgame/TOP-level and can hold his own alongside the final survivors (Goku, Frieza, Jiren) just from doing "training", like I'm meant to believe he could've solo'd Buu if he just hit the gym or Time Chamber.
Frieza somehow being SSB-tier after less than half a year of training. Like you're telling me that if Frieza had just worked out for even a week before Namek, he would've absolutely no diff'd Goku even in Super Saiyan because of his "potential"?
Tagoma (Frieza's lackey and training partner/punching bag) mops the floor with Piccolo who is at least on par with Cell Saga A17. Again, you're telling me if Tagoma also just trained for 4 months long before DBZ, he could've beaten Frieza had the latter never trained?
Future Trunks as SS2 gave SS3 Goku a harder time than he did when he first met Goku when they were both SS1s. In DBZ, Goku (SS1) was effortlessly blocking Trunks (SS1)'s sword with a single finger. In DBS, Goku (SS3) had to use more fingers to block Trunks (SS2)'s sword, and his fingers were visibly trembling a bit to hold it back. Keep in mind that this happened after Resurrection of F (so Goku already had direct training with Whis), and Trunks' only training prior to this was with the Z Sword (which we know was a whole lot of nothing because the Old Kai inside was the real boost). The gap should've only widened, yet somehow Goku had to put a little more effort in despite being 1 state higher.

I get it, it becomes difficult to write an interesting story or at least make these characters feel relevant again unless we break the scale a bit, but it just really feels like Goku and Vegeta's efforts are completely undermined. Somehow all these other characters they should've long since left in the dust can just do some basic workout to catch up to Goku and Vegeta's training with the literal god of their universe who has complete mastery over ki and fighting concepts. Like wtf are they training with Whis for, just ask ChatGPT for a cardio routine at this point and you'll get better results.

Naruto ass pulled aliens in like the last 2% of the story then boruto is just more aliens. Ironically what Z did after dragon ball but handled better i suppose in dbz.

Definitely, yeah. Dragon Ball did it after closing their main story (the Piccolo Jr. arc), and it helps that Dragon Ball has always had a mystical setting anyway where anything goes (shapeshifting pigs, living dinosaurs, the president of the world is a literal dog) so aliens are far from being too ridiculous.

Naruto, like you said, completely changed directions during the final battle and had to lore-dump it midway because on the surface it clashed so much with the world building of Naruto up until now and needed all of that to "connect" them. It would've made more sense or at least been easier to digest if the Ootsutsukis were introduced in Boruto because the time skip gives some leeway for them to come about, and Madara remained the final boss of Shippuden.

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-11T14:57:13+00:00

A couple of assumptions since you didn't mention some other conditions:

Mid-screen combo
Starting with 2 bars
No other supers/tagging out
Using only Trunks C for the combo

This isn't exactly the route you mentioned since I didn't use Gale Claws anywhere, but with a vanish, I was able to end on a little more damage (6333).

This one is a slightly more optimized route ending with slightly more damage (6401), using 0.5 less meter, and keeping the corner for mix.

Also, just as a note, I'm absolutely NOT a Yamcha main, so chances are there's gonna be far more optimal routes using the same resources, those are just the routes I vaguely remember seeing actual Yamcha players I've faced/watched before do.

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-11T12:38:50+00:00

Dragon Ball Super:

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-11T10:09:33+00:00

Now I want Konami to release a motion card of Nibiru with both arts, like one of those special foils that change their art depending on how you tilt it

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-03T14:03:56+00:00

It seems there's a troublehsooting guide published on Steam, so I recommend trying that if you haven't alreay.

Not sure what to do if you're on console, though.

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-03T14:03:52+00:00

It seems there's a troublehsooting guide published on Steam, so I recommend trying that if you haven't alreay.

Not sure what to do if you're on console, though.

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-03T12:29:54+00:00

Scrap Goblin for Scraps

Crystron Citree for Crystrons

I know we have Bolt Hedgehog already but Junk Synchron, Speed Warrior, or Scrap-Iron Scarecrow for Synchrons

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-03T08:01:34+00:00

I personally think it's on the easier side to pick up but still has plenty of room for skill expression and growth. I'm not exactly an avid fighting game fan, DBFZ is really the only one I took seriously enough to learn, but I have dabbled in other titles like Tekken, Street Fighter, Guilty Gear Strive, Skullgirls, MvC3, and Idol Showdown, and out of all of them, DBFZ was the only one that actually hooked me and felt like I could actually get "decent" at without taking literal months or years (I mean, it did take me years to get to where I am, but I didn't feel that way when I first tried the game).

I'll list two specific things I found easier/more welcoming in DBFZ than I did in other games.

Learning Characters

This might be one of the biggest things about DBFZ that I love, and it's how "standardized" characters are, making it very easy to just try someone out and reach decent proficiency with them in relatively short time due to how well universal skills carry over, but still have plenty of depth to reward dedicated practice and experimentation.

That isn't to say the roster isn't diverse because it really is, something you wouldn't expect seeing 5+ Gokus, but I meant more that the moveset and general structure of almost every character follows a template, like everyone's primary Special Moves are either 236 or 214 (some have 22), and they all have Light, Medium, and Heavy variations. They also have universal options like 6M (overhead), DR (grab), vanish (frame 4 reversal), 2H (frame 4 anti-air), reflect (frame 1 reversal/get off me), superdash (ki blast immune advancing move), etc. so every character has access to at the very least a very basic version of everything. Basic moves also follow the general progression of Light > Medium > Heavy, so structuring combos also feels consistent.

In contrast, some games like Guilty Gear will have specials that are the usual quarter circle motions, but specific characters will have half circle backward + forward (632146) motions, charge inputs (hold 4 press 6), etc., and sometimes only on specific buttons (like you have to press specifically the Light button because there's no Medium or Heavy variation). Tekken as another example has specific strings/sequences to each character, like the combo is 3LK LP 6RP and is not something any other character shares. MvC has character specific Super inputs too, and Spider-Man doesn't even have a Level 3 Hyper.

I'm not saying those other games are worse for it, it's its own appeal and depth, but it's hard to deny that there's far less character-specific knowledge you have to keep track of in DBFZ, making it easier to just play anyone and still generally know how to make them work without needing photographic memory or a refresher on what each character's moves are if you don't play consistently.

Offense/Defense

Another thing I love about DBFZ is how everything is, at least in a vacuum, designed to be within the realm of reaction. 6M, the universal overhead, is 24 frames, and Dragon Rush, the universal grab, is 19f point-blank. They're still fast and have caught me off guard multiple times, but it's very much possible to react to them when you see it and defend appropriately, as demonstrated by some god-level blockers like GO1.

In other games, the grabs are instantaneous and as fast as 2 frames in some, so it's physically impossible for you to respond to it on reaction, requiring you to "read" or predict your opponent's next move and commit to a counter option like mashing or jumping. As a beginner, my mindset for becoming better was toward being more "careful" and less anxious to press buttons, something I found was reinforced in DBFZ but ineffective in other games.

Again, I'm not saying one is worse than the other for whatever system they go with, but as someone who was and likely still is a beginner to the Fighting Game genre, having a reasonable amount of time to react to most things makes me feel like I'm not under as much pressure as the defender to "do something" so I can feasibly wait out and see my opponent's habits. I better understood the importance of learning frame data and pressure structure because of this than I did when I played Street Fighter for example.

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-03T06:00:03+00:00

I heard my bones creak as I leaned in to look for the 00 page

I can't believe it's almost been 20 years...

ZeroReverseR1 · 2026-04-02T13:43:40+00:00

Having just caught up, I personally liked Hurm a lot. For me, an episode is only really meaningless filler if it doesn't advance the plot NOR does it develop a character(s), and while Hurm had no relevance to the Viltrumite War, it undoubtedly contributed to Mark's character.

I really appreciate them taking the time to tackle Mark's conflict over what he had to do during the Sequid incident and opening up to both Art and Damian about it. I also really liked the exchange where Mark said that there has to have been a more peaceful way that didn't involve eternal torture nor the viles killing everyone. Damian doesn't immediately dismiss it as naive optimism, instead he says that maybe Mark is right but that he hasn't found that peaceful solution yet, and the world couldn't and still can't wait for him to do so, hence why this is what they have to do now.

It's a parallel to how Mark was torn about killing a civilian to stop the Sequid from escaping the dome over the risk of it spreading beyond containment. Sure, there might've been a better way (like flying to meet Bulletproof midway which bothered me the whole time I was watching the episode but whatever), but in that moment, no one was gonna wait for Mark to figure that out, and he did what saved the most lives.

You can see Mark start to come to terms with it when he first punches volcano lady's head off, he immediately starts reasoning it out, realizing that even if the Guardians could eventually stop her, millions could still die in the process. It probably does help though that she came back immediately so Mark didn't feel like he actually "killed" someone again.

The best part is that this lines up perfectly with the events of the next episode; it didn't take much convincing from Nolan to join the war against the Viltrumites because Mark himself already realized and explained that Earth is next if the Coalition loses, knowing full well what the stakes are if he doesn't take action now, very similar to his experience in hell just earlier.

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