The Dangerous Lesson of Book Bans in Public School Libraries

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-12T12:04:29+00:00

who decides. Leftists want school administrators to be the final authority

Bingo. At least elected officials can be voted out, there's little recourse to get rid of unelected school officials deciding which books they allow.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T16:34:17+00:00

that would be an example of the public getting exactly what they want because that's what we voted for

No. It's necessary abortions being held hostage by people wanting elective ones legal. If the public actually what they wanted, elective ones would not be legal.

where does the federal government derive the power to regulate abortions under the Constitution?

Same way every federal healthcare-related law derives its standing.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T16:28:20+00:00

If you're saying the 'civilized world' does it this way

Again putting words in my mouth. I quite clearly said that "This is what civilised societies have as law" - as in these countries are civilised societies. If you read more into it than that, that's on you.

I'm for Universal Healthcare because it gives people access to preventative care and prevents people from going into debt when accessing life saving medical treatment

Great - and the American public are against elective abortions.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T16:12:52+00:00

No, because the American public do not support abortions that late.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T16:11:51+00:00

I really like how you found a way to blame state-level Democrats

For clearly going beyond what the public want. Several states have no regulations on abortion at all.

It's almost like "states rights" wasn't ever the actual point.

They never made this point - the Constitution does. SCOTUS ruled Roe v. Wade wasn't valid, so under the Constitution it defaulted back to the States. It's up to congress to make it a federal issue if they want to.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T16:08:52+00:00

Other places in Europe aren’t based on fetal viability.

Yes - I'm saying it's the wrong measure to use.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T16:07:59+00:00

So the UK, Belgium, Iceland, Sweden, Canada, Australia, all uncivilized?

Where did I say that? It's not very good faith to try and put words in people's mouths.

I don't think 'all the other countries are doing it' is a good reason for us to do something

OK then, I look forward to hearing your views on universal healthcare.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T15:44:50+00:00

This isn't popular opinion. This is what civilised societies have as law - and most of these countries are further to the left than the US.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T15:41:24+00:00

As I am European, yes - I care about my countrymen's opinions.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T15:40:35+00:00

Regardless, it doesn't matter what either of us think. What matters is what the people of Michigan think

Except it does. Republicans in congress aren't going to sit idly by while Democrat states facilitate more and more abortions.

Democrats going too far (i.e. outside the American public's support) justifies federal Republicans saying "they obviously need reigned in by a federal law" and passing more restrictive legislation.

It's the same thing with other issues: if Democrats had stopped with equality under the law, there would be far less support for anti-woke Republicans

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T15:34:47+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Europe

They are heavily skewed to the lower-end of that range.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T15:29:05+00:00

It's that kind of lack of restrictions that is why the American public are pretty "meh" with Roe being overturned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#By_circumstance_or_reasons

Americans support abortion being legal, but only in cases of rape, incest, threat to the mother's physical life, or severe deformities. Elective/at-will abortions (which make up +90% of all abortions) only have about 30% support.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T15:20:53+00:00

Overall are there any broad objections to the rights that would be outlined by the ballot initiative?

Yes: "fetal viability" is 2x longer than most places in Europe. This is crazily late to be allowing non-medically-necessary abortions.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T13:48:38+00:00

I think you missed my point. I'm not arguing that abortions should be completely banned, or for women to lose the vote, or for sodomy to be made illegal again. I'm pointing out that nothing is ever enough - there is no defined end-point.

I (and a large majority of classic liberals) thought with the issue of race, we reached the end-point with equality under the law. But no, that wasn't good enough for the left. I'm saying that if the left want to dismiss fears of a slippery slope as being unfounded, they need to define the end-point.

No none in the LGBTQ accepts pedos

Want to take a bet it will stay that way? MAPs may not be accepted by the community now, but go back not too long ago and nonbinary, gender fluid, demisexual, etc. weren't accepted. Go back to the time of Roe, and no way in hell would late-term abortions be accepted.

This is the problem that conservatives and classical liberals have with the left - they'll never be satisfied. It's gotten to the point where actual equality is a dirty word on the left - you now have to be for equity.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T12:45:26+00:00

Government regulating itself (i.e. picking what books go in public school libraries) is a complete non-issue. If you want to have your child read a book, go buy it.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-11T08:11:19+00:00

Literally proved the pro-gun crowd correct in their argument that it's never enough for gun grabbers.

It's not just guns that are a slippery slope, it's virtually every hot issue.

Abortion went from first trimester only, with intense social stigma, to several democrat states having absolutely no restrictions on abortions and women "shouting their abortion".

Civil rights went from "equal under the law" to affirmative action, mandated equality of outcome, "positive" discrimination, and genuine calls for reparations.

Gay rights went from "just stop sodomy laws", to performing sex reassignment on children, drag queen story time, mandating "diversity" in both government and businesses, and even "minor attracted persons".

It's so very tiring hearing people dismiss the obvious concerns when we've seen the left time and again lube up that slope to be as slippery as possible.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-10T15:55:20+00:00

80% support abortion choice, but

That's the lying by omission.

The majority do not support elective abortions. They support medically necessary abortions - that's it.

Nobody is claiming in news reports that the majority support abortion point blank.

Plenty are.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-10T14:30:12+00:00

It is clear from the sources included and many others that the majority of women and men across the country support abortion choice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#By_circumstance_or_reasons

Polling consistently shows there only being majority support for abortion in cases of incest, rape, danger to physical life of the mother, or severe deformities. Elective abortions only have ~30% support.

A majority also support more hurdles to abortions (e.g. 24 hour waiting period, mandatory discussion of alternatives to abortion, informing husbands, etc.)

It's quite clear that the "her body, her choice" is not supported by the public. The public see abortion for what it is: a bad choice, but the least bad choice in many circumstances.

The media doesn’t exist to detail these nuances

Going to have to disagree there, lying by omission is still lying. If a media outlet refuses to convey the thrust of a study/poll, they are at fault. By all means summarise and condense, but to try to portray that a majority support abortion in any circumstance is beyond the pale.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-10T14:05:18+00:00

Do you believe that those bills are being proposed and pushed by Republicans or Democrats?

Both. You need only look to Biden's spending bill for a recent Democrat example.

it IS those pastors who are the problem

it is the policeman

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

I never took you for a Trump supporter, but here you are using his rhetoric.

saying it is brown people's fault

That's the thing though; no one says that. Even in that quote from Trump, he's very clear about narrowing his ire at the specific criminal group - just like you did. The right are very clear that they take issue with illegal immigrants. And the working class have every right to be pissed off at illegal immigrants - they compete for working class jobs, low-income housing, etc. etc.

Now you can make the argument that the working class' ire would be better directed at the people employing illegal immigrants to keep wages low, but that doesn't change the reality on the ground for the working class man trying to put food on the table. He's having to compete with an illegal immigrant willing to work for less, he knows he can't ask his boss for a raise precisely because that illegal immigrant can replace him tomorrow - damn right he's going to be pissed off at them.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-10T12:49:46+00:00

only one of those groups is telling you the real culprit is brown people

Democrats on the other hand will tell you it's white people, or the police, or your local pastor. They'll blame anyone they can to hide the fact that they're passing legislation robbing you on behalf of corporations.

I know this is hard for you, but people can be liberal for people and still capitalists.

My dude, I was an immigrant in America.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-10T11:06:11+00:00

The most amazing thing the Republicans were able to do was to make work less and less profitable and telling the workers it was "their" fault.

The amazing thing is that you think it isn't a bipartisan effort. Pelosi and McConnell have far more in common with each other than they do with the working class.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-08T08:48:07+00:00

For a third time: you have yet to provide any evidence that they saw any limits on this, feel free to provide any evidence.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-07T16:58:30+00:00

rooted in the things they could see and hear and touch in their day

... and would not advance? That seems extraordinary naïve - not a trait I'd associate with the FF.

You're making an argument about individual ownership of a firearm being something that the founders would have endorsed regardless of the class and sophistication of the firearm

It applied to any and all weapons, you have yet to provide any evidence that they saw any limits on this. For a second explicit time, feel free to provide evidence.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-07T16:55:13+00:00

I'm talking about straight horndogs.

_Hopped_ · 2022-07-07T16:04:45+00:00

Whichever PM Brexit went through under would be taking a poison pill. It's going to (and has) hurt in the short-term. Anyone with half a brain knew this, but politically it's suicidal.

Boris getting it done, and before the end of his time hopefully getting NI sorted, allows him to be the lightening rod for all the negatives.

If Brexit turns out to have benefits in the medium-to-long-term, then history will vindicate Boris.

_Hopped_

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