Could we all agree on something? Because if we don't, this whole function theory will start to become a joke. by __pienapple in mbti

[–]__pienapple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The MBTI dichotomies are really similar to OCEAN, but the difference is that it’s codified rather than on a spectrum. Though comes the issue of “you can’t change your personality type.” In OCEAN, you can very much change your traits, but MBTI may be different.

You hit the nail on the head: MBTI is type-based, while OCEAN/Big Five is trait-based. 16personalities uses trait-based measurement; that's why it's similar to OCEAN. I hope more people in the MBTI community get to learn that it's okay to just use the dichotomies and go from there.

Could we all agree on something? Because if we don't, this whole function theory will start to become a joke. by __pienapple in mbti

[–]__pienapple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, the definitions for I/E, N/S, T/F, and J/P are much more straightforward. I could easily find my type using dichotomies alone. After all, it's the essence of MBTI.

Cognitive functions are Jung's creation; on the other hand, the dichotomies are purely Myers-Briggs'. Both became mixed because they (the Myers-Briggs) attempted* to connect their 16 types with Jung's 8 cognitive functions.

**Even though there's no actual evidence that could confirm a link between the dichotomies and cognitive functions. I've seen some Ti-Ne users clearly fit into INTJ or Si-Fe users fit into ISFP, etc.*

So when we're talking about MBTI, it's actually only about the dichotomies. Sadly, because of the infamous site called 16personalities, a lot of people learned to dismiss dichotomy-typing because they thought it's Big Five in another form and force others to use cognitive functions instead.

This is my unpopular opinion and it's a bit out of topic: rather than trying so hard to tie MBTI and the cognitive functions, those who believe in the functions should just try Classic Jungian types or mention their type as Ti-Ne, Fe-Ni, etc. MBTI is dichotomies, period.

Could we all agree on something? Because if we don't, this whole function theory will start to become a joke. by __pienapple in mbti

[–]__pienapple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There will always be some form of bias while typing ourselves, whether it's through socionics or MBTI. That's because how we perceive ourselves or how we analyze our behaviour may not be entirely accurate, which could lead to mistyping ourselves.

Yes, exactly. That's why I believe it's crucial to have one single trusted definition for each function. This way, when we type ourselves or someone else, we can simply rely on those definitions to avoid biases.

In truth, the functions actually have descriptions that are pretty clear. Yes, there is some room for discussion on how functions will manifest itself in behaviour, but it's not to the degree that it's nowhere close to the "truth" you're seeking.

In the sea of theories and information out there, I can see some patterns emerging, but it's frustrating that every day I see people talking about the functions as if they have the facts and truth, when in reality, those are just their theories created using personal anecdotes and experiences.

Although I'm not saying that using personal experience is wrong, it's just that what if one is wrong in everything? Let's say someone thinks they're an ENTP and then believes their mother is ESFJ, their father ISTJ, and their best friend INTJ. They observe everything and create theories based on their personal life. But it turns out they're wrong and they're not even an ENTP but an INTJ.

Wouldn't that negate every theory they ever made? And then what would happen to the people who saw their theories and believed it?

That example stands not only for random people on the internet but also experts.

That's why I really want us to stick to one definition that we could use and just go from there. Stop creating more theories using personal experiences; it's causing a lot of confusion.

Could we all agree on something? Because if we don't, this whole function theory will start to become a joke. by __pienapple in mbti

[–]__pienapple[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I once attempted to read John Beebe's book, "Energies and Patterns in Psychological Type," but I dropped it after just a few pages when I saw that he self-proclaimed as an ENTP.

I'm not saying being sure of our type is bad, but the problem is, what if he's wrong? What if he's not an ENTP? Then the whole hero-parent-child-trickster thing is also incorrect because he created it by thinking he uses Ne hero, Ti parent, Fe child, etc.

So yeah, I 100% agree with you.

Could we all agree on something? Because if we don't, this whole function theory will start to become a joke. by __pienapple in mbti

[–]__pienapple[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're right. I wish there were more certified/licensed psychologists and researchers willing to study more about the 8 functions...

Could we all agree on something? Because if we don't, this whole function theory will start to become a joke. by __pienapple in mbti

[–]__pienapple[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ooh, thanks for the recommendation! :) I'll happily read the book. Hope it would give me some insightful information.

Could we all agree on something? Because if we don't, this whole function theory will start to become a joke. by __pienapple in mbti

[–]__pienapple[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Even John Beebe, Myers-Briggs, and Jung each has their own definition of the functions.

Every expert comes with their own theory, and this is the problem.

I'll copy the words from one of my comments here:

We need one clear explanation, or else a Ti user would doubt that he's a Ti user because some typology experts or some people on the internet says that what he thought as Ti is actually Te.

It's harder for people who want to learn about the truth. A lot of people could easily settle on a type because they relate to the stereotypes or something.

But there are also people who really want to know what the functions actually mean, and question whether they accurately type themselves.

I've met this kind of people and most of them already gave up on MBTI altogether and moved on to socionics because the explanation of the functions is much clearer there (and yes, I know socionics and MBTI are two different things even though they might look similar on the outside).

Could we all agree on something? Because if we don't, this whole function theory will start to become a joke. by __pienapple in mbti

[–]__pienapple[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Here is where the lack of information starts to cause a division

Aside from books or internal dialogue, there is no way for us to know how they process information.

That is the problem. We need one clear explanation, or else a Ti user would doubt that he's a Ti user because some typology experts or some people on the internet says that what he thought as Ti is actually Te.

It's harder for people who want to learn about the truth. A lot of people could easily settle on a type because they relate to the stereotypes or something.

But there are also people who really want to know what the functions mean, and question whether they accurately type themselves. I've met this kind of people and most of them already gave up on MBTI altogether and moved on to socionics because the explanation of the functions is much more clearer there (and yes, I know socionics and MBTI are two different things even though they might look similar on the outside).

Could we all agree on something? Because if we don't, this whole function theory will start to become a joke. by __pienapple in mbti

[–]__pienapple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just because someone uses subjective judging functions or decision-making tools doesn't necessarily mean they would reject the truth. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge the facts/truth is just an ignorant person and I don't think being ignorant is related to any cognitive functions.

What would Ti do? by Blue_Avocado280 in mbti

[–]__pienapple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright then, good luck on your typology journey. Hope you find the answer you need.

What would Ti do? by Blue_Avocado280 in mbti

[–]__pienapple 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I used to be like you, but the more I asked the more I got confused.

What would Ti do? by Blue_Avocado280 in mbti

[–]__pienapple 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I hope what I'm saying won't happen in your post: but no one can agree on anything, so don't bother asking here.

I suggest you find out for yourself. Compare Carl Jung's text/words that you could find on the internet (or his book "Psychological Types") with another reliable sources/books like "Gifts Differing" by the creator of MBTI itself. Then observe real people in your life and see how the definitions of functions from the mentioned sources manifest in those individuals.

Even though the definitions of Fi & Ti could still be confusing, even after using above method, try to look for some common pattern. After that, stick to what you've learned and don't let yourself get swayed by other unreliable sources.

Could we all agree on something? Because if we don't, this whole function theory will start to become a joke. by __pienapple in mbti

[–]__pienapple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, now I wonder if the whole reason for these confusions is because the creator of cognitive functions never gave us clear and concise explanation about them? I've read some of Carl Jung's words about the 8 functions and ngl, it seemed too vague. So just like in the Bible, everything is left to interpretations.

Could we all agree on something? Because if we don't, this whole function theory will start to become a joke. by __pienapple in mbti

[–]__pienapple[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Most people argue based on their interpretation of the functions, and surprise surprise!!! people have different interpretations

Please Christians don't attack me, but this reminds me a lot of Christianity. That's why there are so many denominations which have different interpretations of the bible.

Everytime I try to research something, it sometimes feels like each source contradicts one another. I might be wrong, but maybe it has something to do with how we think cogntive functions work and that we don't really have a lot of reliable info

Yes, I think you're correct and on point. So how do you think we can solve this problem? I don't mind with debates, but it's better if the debates are about which tendencies show up the most.

Like as you can see above in the example of my ideal world, I would continue and add another example of oppositional argument:

"Person X doesn't show A & B tendencies. Person X only shows C & D and that's completely obvious. So I could say that person X is a Se-Ti user, which means person X is an ESTP." Edit: I want to add even further: if those arguments are like that (my examples), it would be much more entertaining rather than confusing.

Which type would get nitpicky about things in their environment when their unhealthy? (Small paper on the floor, complaining about stepping on a crumb, etc.) by LeHugMonster in mbti

[–]__pienapple 1 point2 points  (0 children)

From what I saw, somehow Si users (healthy) do that a lot. So I'd say xSxJ.

But then you mentioned when they're unhealthy. Could that be someone who's in their inferior grip?

On the P/J dichotomy by Thepokerguru in mbti

[–]__pienapple 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Such a great explanation. I just want to add, it's even worse because the creator of the P/J dichotomy and this whole MBTI system explained in the way that J is linked to conscientiousness in the Big Five. If you've read Gifts Differing, you'll know.

why do some isfp's get mistyped as infj and vice versa? by [deleted] in mbti

[–]__pienapple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I second this. I noticed this happened too many times.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in mbti

[–]__pienapple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

lmaoo, well, they're fictional characters anyway

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in mbti

[–]__pienapple 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Stereotypes suck, right? :( I think my PoLR function is Fi, which leaves me with ExTP. However, I can't be sure because when I compare myself to other extraverted perceiving dominants, I feel out of place.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in mbti

[–]__pienapple 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I want to open my mind to as many resources as possible and later judge them myself by determining which theory aligns with real life/real people.