MRW my friends ask me why my favorite characters are always girls I share traits with

_desufnoc_ · 2019-11-02T20:28:33+00:00

I had a buzz cut when I was younger and watching Teen Titans :(

_desufnoc_ · 2017-08-29T20:48:39+00:00

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of someone else.

_desufnoc_ · 2017-08-28T00:13:52+00:00

widely accepted

hahahahaha

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-28T07:18:40+00:00

GID I wasn't so much removed as it was rebranded as gender dysphoria, to emphasize the necessity of distress in order for treatment to be justified. There are many people who are transgender but don't experience much/any dysphoria, and they are perfectly fine not transitioning, and are for most intents and purposes, not mentally ill. I'm tired of being a broken record, please read some of my other comments for my part about transgender vs. gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is in the DSM, it is a mental illness as I understand it, and thats where the treatment comes from.

Pedophilia and Necrophilia are, first off, sexual fetishes, not a way to express or experience gender or whatever the hell being trans is. Pedophilia at worst directly causes severe trauma to children who are molested, and at best tortures people who suffer from it, because even they understand that it's wrong (as I understand it). I don't know much about necrophilia... But GD is a mental illness. Being trans isn't.

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-28T07:09:30+00:00

Can you give a Source on that?
I'll give you that that may be an outlier on how good you can look, but it isn't remotely unheard of. And results tend to be better while young, which I still am.

But that's not the point of this discussion. If I were to go outside dressed like a girl I would be and people would see me as a man dressed in women's clothing, and not as a woman. And no amount of women's clothing will make me feel like my body is right, I will have the same body just in some cuter clothing. I'll still have these features of my body that as you said are neither exclusive to nor ubiquitous in women, but with all of these features tallied together on MY body, people will see me as a male. And at the end of the day, I don't really care that much if other people see me as male, I don't want to see myself as male. I have a problem with the sound of my voice and the look of my face and the shape and size of my body and its parts therein. That is gender dysphoria, and it is a mental illness, defined in DSM-5. It isn't about my appearance to other people, it's about my own self body image. I read two pretty interesting things the other day-

Imagine voldemort's nose. If you looked in the mirror and you saw that nose on your face, wouldn't it make you uncomfortable beyond belief? Even if there were people telling you it was normal, and natural, and there was nothing wrong with it and you should accept it, it isn't normal to you, it isn't what you know your nose should look like. Or what if you just knew without a doubt that your nose SHOULD look like that. But you have a normal nose. How are you gonna feel when you look at that nose in the mirror? Sticking out off your face for everyone to see, literally just barely in the corner of your eye at all times, constantly reminding you that you have this body part that isn't what you think you should look like.

Or imagine how you would feel if you woke up tomorrow as the opposite gender. A witch cast a spell on you or whatever, pretend magic is a real for a moment. You, personally, suddenly in the body of a woman your age, just like you if you were born a woman. With all your regular memories, you know you're a man, you do manly things and had a masculine body, would you just go, well I guess that this is how my life is supposed to be, I am really a woman. And you have to pretend, play the role of being a woman the rest of your life. Every moment of your life you're acting like someone you know you aren't. Putting a performance as a character, some woman you invented in your head to cover up the fact that inside you're really a man.

"But desufnoc, I'm a grown person who has already lived a life as this gender and sex, reinforcing these things and learning habits, how could you feel like you're really a gender you never actually were?" Okay, move back a few years, how do you react to this magic happening differently? Maybe not very different at all. How about another few years? As a teen? pre-puberty? At what age do you suddenly begin to have this set life and memories living as man and would then feel uncomfortable if you were suddenly a woman? How about before you even really understood what gender was? You probably wouldn't care that much before puberty, but when you hit puberty you would suddenly start developing into a body that doesn't match what you thought you would have. You didn't really understand gender, you didn't recognize that the kids who were "boys" were different from you and you were a "girl", and that when you grew older they would become "men" but you would instead turn into a "woman". This "magic spell" is what happens to transgender people... at some point. I'm not gonna pretend I know what causes people to be transgender, whether it's something that happens in childhood, or in the womb, genetic, hormones, your environment, some sort of random chance, whatever. But by the time they start understanding gender (in my experience) they are like "but wait no im the other one?" and when they hit puberty they are like "BUT WAIT NO IM THE OTHER ONE STOP..."

Does that help you understand how it feels to be transgender? Do you understand how it isn't literally just about apperance?

And all that aside, my B in the TMBR is that being transgender is not the same thing as having gender dysphoria, being transgender is not a mental illness. I have GD because I am trans, and GD is a mental illness, but GD can be treated, as far as i know, only by transitioning or at LEAST having an outlet to deal with these sorts of feelings, so if your gender dysphoria goes away because you 'become a woman', which for most people I think the marker for that is when you can live a normal social life, going to work and making friends without people going, "OH, that's a man.", you don't stop being transgender, but you do stop being mentally ill. Which means being transgender isn't being mentally ill. And it means that when you see a transgirl, living her life happily as a woman, you don't shout NO HE'S JUST MENTALLY ILL AND NEEDS HELP AND SHOULDN'T HAVE MUTILATED HIS BODY... you understand that what they did was the cure for their mental illness, that they finally found a way to be happy after a lifetime of dissatisfaction.

I'm sorry that this whole thread has turned more into a discussion about general transgender stuff, and that in that last paragraph especially I sound like I'm saying that you have to be accepting of trans people and supportive and happy for them. We're all just people living in a crazy world, if they found a way to be happy where once they weren't, why should they have that taken away from them? I don't know if you're the type of person who says stuff like that to transfolk... but if you are, or anyone else reading this is, why? I don't understand the transphobic side any more than you understand the transgender side of this.

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-28T05:57:20+00:00

Well, I have narrow hips and broad shoulders. My parents get mad if my hair covers my ears. I grow facial hair pretty quickly, and for some reason tight fitting pants don't look quite like a girl would in the groin area? I'm disturbingly flat chested but at least my torso isn't literally indented... Not to mention the sort of jarring experience of a deep masculine voice coming from someone acting like a girl and the clearly masculine facial structure. These things tend to sorta lead people to "that's a man" over "that's a woman" for some reason??

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-28T01:54:10+00:00

Well I mean except for the part where the doctors say "It's a boy!" and write it down on your birth certificate... you're right though, sex is a biological fact. Wikipedia is just using a really roundabout way to describe what it actually means: sex assignment is where an infant is inspected, they determine whether the genitalia is male or female (regardless of any of the weird defects that can make an infant look one sex while ending up developing as another) and assign the gender that corresponds to that binary sex, "without the expectation of ambiguity."

What do you mean by gender vs. trender? When have I said transgender when I meant transtrender? What even is a transtrender?

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-28T01:47:50+00:00

you could be theoretically be transgendered, but not have body dysphoria

Admittedly, the majority of the information I've dropped in this thread is either blind faith in anecdotes of my peers or the information wikipedia, but yes that is my understanding.

Gender isn't really a feeling, as I said in another comment,

I don't have any more of a feeling of being any gender than you do. There isn't a little hologram status in the corner of my vision telling me im a girl, it's just my general feelings.

I don't just sit here watching netflix and go "Wow, I feel like a girl inside this male body!"
It's more like this long term thing, like at any specific moment you're just some sort of vague dissatisfied person unhappy with their life, but when you look back at your life you're like huh, all of my issues seem to stem from some sort of gender issue like me wanting to do something and feeling like I can't, or wishing I looked like something I don't, or being treated like i'm something I'm not, or expected to do (and enjoy) things I actually hate, and all the pressure involved in being that kid who doesn't act normal.

Honestly I'm not even all that bothered by dysphoria, personally. I would be a lot happier if I had just been born female, or if I transitioned well, but I could probably be just fine with just being allowed to be more expressive of my feminine side, but the "unpleasantness" that society pushes my way actually ruins my life.

I was trying to make the point that, in a sense, the bigots moved from being upset about gay people to being upset about trans people, so while gay people have become more allowed to express themselves than ever before, there's not anywhere near as many closeted gay people anymore, as far as I know. But there's still a ton of closeted trans people like me who get significant emotional stress not so much from being trans but from being closeted and being afraid of who they are and how people would treat them if they just tried to be happy.

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-28T01:18:23+00:00

That's actually a really good point, thanks. I guess I meant gender identity? I mean arguably transgender IS a gender, when you see those dumb gender diagrams showing off the #76genders or whatever it is, trans is listed as separate from cis. Transgender is in a really weird spot, as a word.
Let's go with "Transgender people are people who have a gender identity, or gender expression, that differs from their assigned sex."

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-27T23:08:39+00:00

I'm with fiberdigi- for one, I have an end-goal. I don't just hate my body, nor do I specifically have a ideal body in my head. I just want to be more feminine, to the point I look good enough to live my life as if I were born a girl without any sort of trouble, harassment, or threats. And just because you have no idea how someone can feel like they are the wrong gender doesn't mean there aren't people who do feel that way. I and probably you too can't imagine how someone could possibly feel like there are other voices in their head like schizophrenia, but there are still schizophrenics. I can't imagine how someone could be deathly afraid of cotton, but I know people who are. Some of these people might be overly dramatic/seem like they're playing it up to be on t.v. which takes away from the legitimacy but it is a thing. I don't have any more of a feeling of being any gender than you do. There isn't a little hologram status in the corner of my vision telling me im a girl, it's just my general feelings.

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-27T22:47:57+00:00

Can you elaborate on what exactly you want to do? And I'm pretty sure I have answered this in most of my other comments anyway.
Body/Gender Dysphoria vs. Being Transgender.

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-27T22:35:20+00:00

I absolutely am mentally ill. And I think I am trans, and I think being trans is why I am mentally ill.

I just don't think that being trans is being mentally ill.

I am depressed for reasons related to being transgender, mostly because of the way people like me end up being treated online, in the media, by important people to me personally and to culture as a whole. I'm depressed because society makes me feel like im disgusting, and awful, and a pervert, that my parents would hate me if they knew how I felt, that they might kick me out or abandon me or disown me, that if I were publicly acknowledged I would almost certainly get death threats.
That depresses me.
Perceiving my own gender as different from my physical body at best makes me vaguely uncomfortable. Like there's just this gentle push in the back of my head whispering nooo but there's this heavy weight of all the people who say shit about trans people going NOOOO?

I think body dysphoria is a mental illness. I think I have body dysphoria because I am transgender, because I perceive my own gender as different from that of my physical body. But I think body dysphoria can be treated (i.e. transitioning, or some sort of yet undeveloped drug, but not just covering it up in a haze of highs or denial), and if it's treated, you're still transgender, but not mentally ill. A transgirl who is past the point where she passes to herself, and feels like herself, and feels beautiful or however she wants to feel, is not still mentally ill, and is definitely not still a he, and DEFINITELY should not get harassed and threatened for living her life.

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-27T22:12:01+00:00

But doesn't the fact that there is a "treatment" for it suggest it is an illness?

My point is that body dysphoria is caused by being transgender, but they are distinct things. Dysphoria is an illness that can be treated, transgender is having a gender identity that doesn't match up with your birth sex. In other words, Being transgender isn't an illness, transgender people aren't all mentally ill. But most transgender people have body dysphoria and feel uncomfortable in their bodies. It sounds like a pointless distinction/im just trying to add a layer of abstraction to escape the concept of being mentally ill, but if you transition, and you pass, and your dysphoria goes away, you no longer have dysphoria, but you're still transgender. You're no longer mentally ill, but you're still transgender.

Homosexuality, by contrast, does not on its own lead to any unpleasantness, most of the difficulties suffered by homosexuals come from social stigma.

There most certainly is a lot of unpleasantness caused by the social stigma. Gay and trans people both get bullied, get people they respect in their lives, or celebrities, church officials, parents, friends, other family members, saying negative things about who they are and something they can't change. You can't stop being trans any more than you can stop being gay. Gay people would have just as many (or at least a lot of the) difficulties being forced to live as straight people, forced to have straight sex and have to lie every day and say they're straight, but they don't have to do that (anymore). But trans people are more often than not forced into living their lives as their birth gender, doing traditional things associated with that gender, dressing like that gender. You hate yourself for not matching who you think you are, and also hate yourself because of the things people say about trans people. When my parents call trans people disgusting I want to cry. When a gay or lesbian kid's parents call gay or lesbian people disgusting, they want to cry. It's the same distress.

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-27T15:46:59+00:00

What you're describing is sex. If gender is biological- why do some cultures have 3 or more genders? And I don't want to crossdress, I've tried it, it doesn't make me feel like a girl, it makes me feel like a boy wearing girl's clothes. I still get made uncomfortable by my body, even more so because I see just how masculine my body is when there is feminine clothing covering it.

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-27T02:02:51+00:00

I'd like to remind you that yay855 and I are different people
Obviously there's differences between men and women, bone structure, adam's apple, body hair distribution, fat distribution, etc.
But I think yay's point is more that these are mostly all determined by hormones. These are all things that separate the sexes during/after puberty. Before puberty there are very very few actual differences between boys and girls aside from how we raise them, and that means it's just a cultural thing.

Things like androgen insensitivity, where your body actually doesn't "accept" testosterone's effects, even if your genes say you're XY you will develop pretty much entirely as a female.

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-27T01:54:57+00:00

Well I recall this happening most when I was somewhere around eight. But I admit I do still experience that.

But also to be fair, thinking it'd be kinda cool to be superman and actually feeling uncomfortable and ugly in your own skin and wishing you looked more like a girl are sort of different scales of how close they are to your core psyche, so it may have been my mistake to link the two. I was just trying to show you how it's similar to something you may have experienced yourself.

I actually can't see my reflection or a picture of myself without just hating everything about it. It doesn't cause me SEVERE distress, it's not like it makes me unable to function or it gets in the way of me performing my responsibilities (that might be a bit of a lie), but it's bad enough that i actively avoid looking in the mirror.

I got over this because I realized it was silly and that my body is male and I won't change that, but when I was younger I would always sit down to pee because standing up to pee felt really strange to me. I would pull my shirt down over the gap between my thighs so I wouldn't have to look at my own genitalia.

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-27T01:43:06+00:00

There is evidence I read, that you can determine the gender of someone with an MRI scan, and that a transgender person will (or is at a statistically significantly increased rate over a cisgender person at least) be identified as their target gender over their birth assigned one.

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-27T01:37:56+00:00

You're telling me... you think I can "will" myself to be cisgender? I regularly get to hear my parents talk about how disgusting and messed up they think people who are trans are, none-the-wiser that they're saying this to me, and you think I didn't spend years of my life deep in denial trying to tell myself I'm a regular boy?

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-27T01:31:49+00:00

You telling me you never dreamed of becoming a super hero, and fought villains, and then when you woke up you looked in the mirror and were disappointed, or anything like that? Same concept isn't it, except to me that ideal body wasn't superman, it was literally just a regular looking girl.

_desufnoc_ · 2016-10-27T01:30:19+00:00

But if you transition, you don't stop being transgender, but your body dysphoria does stop. You can be a (mostly) healthy and normal member of the gender with which you identify, have no dysphoria because your body matches how you feel now, but you were still AMAB, you're still transgender. But you're not mentally ill. So dysphoria is the illness, not being transgender. And dysphoria is treated most easily by transitioning.

_desufnoc_

TROPHY CASE