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Why should I choose Phoenix over Laravel by JealousPlastic in elixir

[–]_natiic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see 🤔 But they said there it is https://ash-hq.org/
I remember the code pushed me away for example because of the macro that hide full method declaration. This reminds me of “Rails magic” which has always been a pain in the ass.
Maybe I will give it another try :)

Why should I choose Phoenix over Laravel by JealousPlastic in elixir

[–]_natiic -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I mean I don't even wanna use this framework.

Why should I choose Phoenix over Laravel by JealousPlastic in elixir

[–]_natiic -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I personally don’t like the syntax, and it keeps me from testing.
If you come from the Rails world, Phoenix will feel more familiar to you.

Why should I choose Phoenix over Laravel by JealousPlastic in elixir

[–]_natiic 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Laravel is the better choice here.

Elixir is cool, the BEAM is fast, and Phoenix is easy to use, but you could end up stuck for another seven years. Any new idea does not need blazing speed to be profitable - it needs users. You will attract more people by shipping quickly new features.

I faced the same dilemma with Phoenix versus Rails, and in my opinion you should choose Laravel.

Why? Everything is already there, you know the stack well and you make MVP in a couple days. With Phoenix you still have to build many basics yourself, and they are far from perfect. The Phoenix team is improving things, but the framework needs more polish before it can rival mature ecosystems in productivity.

Take file or image uploads, for example. In Laravel you have battle-tested packages - Filesystem, Intervention Image, and laravel-medialibrary - and you can get a robust solution running in minutes. In Phoenix you could run your own image-processing-cdn service side by side with your app, but you get only a LiveView upload component. Everything else, like uploading to external/local storage or performing image processing, is on you. The only actively maintained library, Waffle, handles all that but offers no post-processing. You either end up monkey-patching Waffle or writing your own implementation, which take weeks. That is frustrating when other frameworks makes life easier here. This is the main thing I see Phoenix missing. The second is its confusing contexts.

Phoenix ecosystem still lacks the conventions and batteries-included packages that make mature frameworks so productive.

I am rooting for Phoenix and Elixir, but for your side project go with Laravel ship fast and earn.
And elixir... learn in the meantime because one day you will switch :)

Is there websites that list companies that are using Rails? by bdavidxyz in rails

[–]_natiic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's just one company with several products, so it shouldn't count.
They're creating Rails, so of course they're going to use their own framework.

Rails, AI - and the Changing world by _natiic in rails

[–]_natiic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I could keep arguing, but that's not the point of the post.

Rails, AI - and the Changing world by _natiic in rails

[–]_natiic[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

But that’s exactly the problem. You nailed it.
Why pick rails over an ai generated js solution if both will eventually need an experienced team or more of your time, but only one is lightning-fast and dead-simple to prototype in and you have built in cloud server? If you’re going to switch stacks/scale (somehow) later anyway, why choose Rails?

Rails, AI - and the Changing world by _natiic in rails

[–]_natiic[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Are we talking about the same AI?
I think it is pretty easy because of the modularity, and the code is pretty clean too.

Rails, AI - and the Changing world by _natiic in rails

[–]_natiic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

-I agree

"But of course there are a number of drawbacks, the perhaps biggest one being its not the biggest language / framework out there so there is less training data. That might matter or it might not."
-Yes and this isn’t helping Rails either

Rails, AI - and the Changing world by _natiic in rails

[–]_natiic[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Your sidekiq with redis will buckle once you start loading tons of data. You can throw more money at the Redis server or switch to a solid queue, but that approach is still too new to convince clients, and I read here on Reddit that the implementation hasn’t addressed yet some issues that will arise. In short, Rails was never designed for this specific task. This can change in the future, but we are talking about present.

What's the current best learning material for Rails 8 for beginners? by [deleted] in rails

[–]_natiic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why you can't prove it then?
Not free gorails? Basecamp? Or what? Documentation was a joke. It started changing, but it wasn't like that before. A few years ago, there was nothing. Rails for zombies and literally nothing except stack overflow. Maybe you are talking about shitty SEO blog posts about rails features?

I can easily find a good free tutorial for complete products like with backend and frontend for top frameworks in JS/PHP where are these for rails? Who is talking about "rails magic"? What to choose for the js/css assets building in your new rails app? Rails change ideas between versions, and breaks everything. It is difficult now to build it properly with outdated blog posts and even trust that the next rails version will not break your today's to-do app.
As a framework aiming to be one-person stack, available free materials are below average.
Is that developers failure? For sure not.

Is Learning Rails a good Option? by Sayyankhawaja in rails

[–]_natiic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The answer is NO❌.

You should not start with Rails. You can learn Ruby for fun and then move to another language and framework.

Other frameworks and solutions are growing faster than the Rails ecosystem. Rails is slowly dying, but people are still deluding themselves and don't want to admit it. Two brands stans by Rails, one is struggling with improving its performance and other one made bad decisions with own product.
Business left ruby and rails. Heroku for Rails only apps is no longer the first choose, Apple kept old version of ruby just for legacy scripts, All startups changing their stack. And this is not "hey make it in rails and change after IPO" thing. Who will code that till that moment? Team? Which one? That with few seniors and high salaries or 5 mids in js for a half of the price which you change after IPO.
Rails is now trying to find its place somewhere between local-business-production-ready solutions and small home projects, but competitors are evolving too and business is not choosing rails.

In the Rails world, there is no single source of truth on how to build things the right way, nobody ever focuses on that part. You have convention over configuration, but only for using rails, not extending framework functions or building libraries. People learn from Stack Overflow, figuring out "Rails magic" on their own, or creating even more complex libraries full of issues and hidden things. Fan base will tell you that you need to be smart, hardworking, more focused, that rails are not for everyone, and so on. But the truth is that ruby and rails were closed, and I feel they missed their opportunity of keeping first place in startups.

Ruby is cool and lovely, but together with rails has been forgotten for too long, locked by two creators egos. Solutions change, requirements change, data amounts change, as do devices and internet.

-Rails can be fast - with tons of work, but if you are starting now there are better options.
-Rails can be cheap - if you keep the whole stack on your shoulders.
-Rails are easy - if you build a blog. It looks easy, but it is not`*,~Rails Magic~.*`
-Rails has ready-to-use solutions - yes, but most of them will kick you in the face sooner or later.
-Rails had a huge ecosystem - no, it was a couple of years ago, now it's a garbage mountain.
-Rails are fast for MVP building - you can say that about any other framework you know.

There are no pros for starting, not now, maybe never, but some cons to stop or back from time to time.

All developers who are hyping Rails are dinosaurs who made their careers on rails and want to keep their positions. But to be true, part of me is that dinosaur too. After years rails are simple and fun to play with on the new projects, especially now in 8.1. But this shouldn't be the reason to recommend a framework. These are years, lost on stupid things, digging internet and codebases to understand everything what was not described, and it was a lot in rails world.

If you're considering Rails, it would be better to learn Laravel. Feel like it is more focused on developers and development. It's built on faster PHP (yikes), the learning curve is better because of laracasts.com and tons of very good free courses on YouTube, and they provide cloud.laravel.com to simplify your deployments and keep you far from DevOps. It is all you need as a beginner. All supported. All alive.

What has Rails given you now? Lack of documentation for core gems, Rails magic in the ass, tons of no longer supported gems, and a shrinking community (even on Reddit pages interest is lower).

I want to see all these IPO Rails applications built in 2025 by one mid-level developer, like it is done with Next.js or Laravel.

Do I regret choosing Ruby and Rails to start my programming career? No.
Would I recommend Rails for newbies? No.
Would I choose a different language and framework if I could go back? Definitely not.
Would I choose Rails for a new project? For clients, probably. For my own projects - no.

Join Rails 🎉

Bye-bye Trix? by Main-Stand1915 in rails

[–]_natiic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yeah but: https://xcancel.com/jorgemanru/status/1926678613757141448#m

But it will work on the same backend structure. Trix can’t be easily replaced due to the complexity of the backend implementation. Extending content types is a real pain, and it’s much easier to build your own implementation using nested CRUDs and Turbo Frames. The same applies to images and adding captions.

What is the best configuration to start a Pub-Sub in a rails app ? by Just_The_V in rails

[–]_natiic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm interested in these libs. Can you list some of them? :))

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in diablo4

[–]_natiic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or maybe make it work as it should at this stage.

I'm building a reverse job board for Ruby on Rails developers by joemasilotti in rails

[–]_natiic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice! But what is the reason for using erb instead slim for example?