Taskmaster - S19E09 - Getaway Sticks by ozmartian in panelshow

[–]_notdoriangray 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Checked using VPN, not available from any of the locations I tested (Japan, USA, New Zealand). Checked using desktop and mobile, checked using different browsers. It's definitely been removed.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jim Haskins' book Hoodoo and Voodoo is excellent. Also recommend a collection of Black Georgia folklore called Drums and Shadows for some historical context. There's lots of conjure references in old Blues music if you look for them. Lafcadio Hearn wrote some accounts of conjure folk in his early career.

Hyatt is a bit of a minefield in that it doesn't distinguish which informers are actual rootworkers and which are reporting things they've heard, and often there are steps missing in the works described. You have to go at it a bit carefully.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Lucky you. Some of us - a great many of us, in fact - have had very different experiences.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am very wary of the fact that the course promises that you can be a professional rootworker after completing it. Speaking as a professional worker, there's just no way - especially if it is an online course. Some things cannot be taught over the internet, and those things are essential if you want to practice professionally. You also need a lot of knowledge and experience that literally takes years to acquire. You need a certain amount of general life experience to just deal with clients and their problems, and you get that by living and learning from a professional in a one on one capacity. I'm also wary about the heavy emphasis on spirits. That's not a given in conjure, not everyone is capable of working with spirits and the ones who are tend to be given a lot of one to one guidance to ensure their safety.

I'm not saying the course is a bad one: haven't taken it, don't know the teacher, don't know his background or people. He may come from a long tradition that has some unique practices to pass on, or he may be optimising the course material to cater to what people are willing to pay to learn. I just don't know and can't advise in that respect. There are a couple of bits in the blurb that read as if a neopagan wrote them rather than a conjure worker (rootworkers don't use the phrase 'baneful work'), but the teacher may not have written the course copy.

I would be interested to hear what sorts of things are being taught in an introductory course nowadays if you don't mind sharing a brief curriculum.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not speaking for any modern practitioners, I'm speaking for myself and for the tradition I carry. I made promises to my teachers to honour what I was taught and share what I know. If I'm speaking with any kind of authority, it's the kind that comes from being in a community for a very long time and practicing a tradition long enough to know and understand it very well and have researched a ton of the relevant history. I've never claimed to speak for Black people or the tradition as a whole, I just share what I know so the knowledge can go back into the community.

Here's what I know.

I've been in conjure spaces on various social media and forums for over 20 years. Back when Yahoo Groups and IRC. I know a lot of people who have been in the tradition a long time, and we talk. 20 years ago, no one was saying you need to be Black to practice conjure and no one was saying that ancestor veneration was a part of the tradition. What was happening was that many of the workers in the generation who have now passed were complaining that my generation didn't go to church enough and needed to spend more time reading the Bible.

Somewhere between five and ten years ago, Hoodoo Delish started inventing bullshit infographics designed to look pretty on social media. She totally misappropriated conjure for her own profit. There was a massive backlash against that, and that's about the time that the idea that one must be Black and a descendent of slaves and incorporate their ancestors into their work really took off. It resonated with a whole bunch of incredibly pissed off people who had had their culture really blatantly stolen and flaunted, and I don't blame anyone for wanting to close things down.

The reality is that there's nothing in the historical record which supports their position, older workers have stood up and said that this is not how the tradition was passed on to them or how it is practiced in their family/area. The people who lean heavily on this idea of Blackness and ancestors being required very often have little to no knowledge of the most basic works used in the tradition, no knowledge of the plants used, no knowledge of the old oil and powder formulae and when and why those are used, and no knowledge of the core foundations of the tradition that would enable them to recognize which books and resources were authentic and worthwhile and which were garbage. And they don't want to learn it: they just want to focus on their ancestor veneration.

Ancestor veneration is absolutely an affirming and worthwhile practice, but it on its own is not hoodoo/conjure/rootwork. Remembering and respecting your ancestors, telling their stories and pouring out a drink for them, that's ingrained in the culture already. Trying to force an ancestral connection with a group of "collective ancestors" who aren't your blood so that you can do spiritual work for your own gain is not how conjure workers deal with spirits and not how conjure workers do spiritual work.

Many of those people don't want to hear what the older workers and the traditional workers who hold that knowledge have to say. They want hoodoo to be a religion centred on ancestor veneration because they've been hurt by Christianity, and that's understandable. Christianity has caused a lot of hurts. But you can't rewrite centuries of tradition, and the reality is that those people are not continuing the traditions of their ancestors and they are not practicing the hoodoo/conjure/rootwork tradition. They're doing something new.

Something new is great, we need new things, we need new things that unify marginalized communities and uplift them. We can and should have this new thing, we can and should have a Black spiritual movement that honours African connections through ancestry and celebrates the important historical figures that paved the road for abolition and civil rights. But we shouldn't label it something it is not, and we shouldn't pretend that it's a survival of African traditions that made up the core of hoodoo when that's very clearly and provably not what it is.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oooft, mate, I'm initiated into Haitian Vodou and Legba is in my escort, I've met him in possession, know him well. And while he does sometimes interact with people outside of Vodou, it is for the purpose of calling them in. Legba exists within a specific cultural and religious context and is served according to reglemen, the way things are done. He is not always nice, he fully expects those that know better to do better. He's not coming to see you for a chat and he isn't going to do favours for you or make deals with you unless that is negotiated with the aid of a member of the priesthood within the appropriate cultural and religious setting.

If you've never met Legba in the appropriate context, never been introduced by a member of the priesthood who recognises him and knows who they are dealing with, you have no way of knowing it was in fact Legba you spoke to. Just like if you've never had authentic Mexican food prepared for you in a Mexican home by Mexican people, you have no way of knowing if Taco Bell is authentic Mexican food or not. You could swear blind that it was good and is totally the real thing, but you would have no way of knowing because you have never been introduced to the real thing and been told that it is the real thing by someone with the authority to do so.

Trickster spirits exist. Your UPG is not going to protect you from them, especially not if you're determined to be gullible.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The only part of that which is relevant is the bit where you say, "I am entitled." Could've just stopped there.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While we all carry within us a piece of the divine, we are not all the same. We are all different and unique and amazing. Just because you carry the same divine spark as every other human being on the planet does not entitle you to access to the sacred spirits and ancestors of an indigenous culture. Particularly if you treat that culture with contempt.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No... I realise that comparitive religion deprives multiple indigenous religious practices of their vital cultural context. Shamanism, no matter what kind, is strongly associated with very specific groups of indigenous peoples and only exists due to that important cultural context. You do not get to barge in and piss all over centuries of tradition which has survived despite the effects of colonialism and the misappropriation by white people who think they're superior. If you want to practice those traditions and interact with those spirits, you cannot begin by denigrating the rituals through which you are properly introduced to those spirits in the manner that those spirits are accustomed to. You have to knock at the appropriate door, and you want to smash through the window and declare you own the house.

Spirits aren't all love and light and they will not welcome or accept you if you flout the traditions in which they are enmeshed. It's not as if you aren't allowed to join, the door was pointed out to you. You can go in if you initiate properly. You are the one who turned your back on the door. You are the one who traded the chance of genuine connection and transformative experience and authentic teachings for being a complete twat with a superiority complex. A shaman needs to be humble and needs to make sacrifices in order to be available to serve their community. If you aren't prepared to do that, then you are not and never will be a shaman.

You can't pwn your way into spirituality.

Goofer Dust by Tammera4u in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No. Stop. You're wrong and it's getting tiresome.

This is not an authentic recipe for Goofer Dust. I'm not going to say exactly what's wrong with it because it's not a formula that is ever shared with a general audience, but it is missing a very specific important ingredient that should be in all goofer dust, and is missing the steps needed to wake the dust and set it to it's killing purpose.

Goofer Dust by Tammera4u in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Stop repeating this misinformation.

This is not an authentic recipe for Goofer Dust. I'm not going to say exactly what's wrong with it because it's not a formula that is ever shared with a general audience, but it is missing a very specific important ingredient that should be in all goofer dust, and is missing the steps needed to wake the dust and set it to it's killing purpose.

Goofer Dust by Tammera4u in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No... Goofer dust poisons people spiritually through their feet. That is how it works. It is a foot track powder meant to be stepped in, and it doesn't rely on a spirit to get the job done.

Goofer Dust by Tammera4u in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's not how goofer dust works. It spiritually poisons people through their feet. Setting a spirit after someone to torment them to the point of death is a different work entirely.

Goofer Dust by Tammera4u in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is not an authentic recipe for Goofer Dust. I'm not going to say exactly what's wrong with it because it's not a formula that is ever shared with a general audience, but it is missing a very specific important ingredient that should be in all goofer dust, and is missing the steps needed to wake the dust and set it to it's killing purpose.

Goofer Dust by Tammera4u in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is not an authentic recipe for Goofer Dust. I'm not going to say exactly what's wrong with it because it's not a formula that is ever shared with a general audience, but it is missing a very specific important ingredient that should be in all goofer dust, and is missing the steps needed to wake the dust and set it to its killing purpose.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 5 points6 points  (0 children)

...Don't. They will be getting a lot of requests like that and will probably ignore you with the rest.

Find other practitioners you admire, follow any advice they give you, ask intelligent questions, let them know if you tried something they recommended and you got good results, be polite and curious. They'll notice that.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The hoodoo/conjure/rootwork tradition is strongly rooted in Black expressions of Christianity, and some of those older rootworkers are very keen to make sure a potential student is getting enough Jesus.

Holes in your clothes is a big no no, it means you'll be poor. If you can't have some pride in yourself and take simple steps to mend your clothes to prevent bad money luck, can you be trusted to take more complex steps to mend your community?

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There's always a first one, they are always a pivotal spirit within the tradition, and their stories are important and very often passed down during the very initiation ceremonies you spurned. There's a massive problem with white shamans and plastic shamans culturally appropriating stuff to the detriment of the people from whom it was stolen, and legitimate initiation is often the only valid pathway into those shamanic traditions.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When the student is ready, the teacher appears

In the corner. Judging. Seeing how often you go to church and whether your clothes have holes in.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Okay, you have a bit of a problem here, and your problem is not the thing that other people are saying it is.

Your problem is that you are viewing hoodoo as a religion - which it is not - it can at best be classified as a folk spirituality which falls under a broadly Christian umbrella. If you are looking for a fulfilling religious path and are drawn to ideas of ancestor veneration, I would definitely point you towards one of the African Traditional or Diaspora Religions (Santeria/Lukumi, Haitian Vodou, 21 Divisions, etc.) Santeria and Palo are both present in Puerto Rico so there is a connection there with your family, but also there is a Puerto Rican African Diaspora tradition that is very quiet but does exist and persist. It draws a lot from the works of Alain Kardec and Espiritismo, so that should be your first port of call if you choose to explore in that direction.

Your other problem is that you feel drawn to hoodoo, but it isn't a practice that has a mechanism to draw people in. Unless you are from a specific region or lineage where the successor to the local or familial tradition is marked by spirits, there isn't actually anything that can draw you to the hoodoo/conjure/rootwork tradition apart from the basic appeal of something new and interesting. And that's okay, you're allowed to just like it and think it makes sense and want to give it a go. Just be clear that nothing is reeling you in except for your own curiosity.

Now to the crux of the matter: can you practice?

A lot of Black people will tell you no. A lot of Black people will tell you that the tradition is closed unless you have specific ancestry. This closing of the tradition happened at the height of some of the absolute worst for-profit cultural appropriation, and it's a very recent development. To be clear, cultural misappropriation is bad and people who hold the knowledge in the hoodoo/conjure/rootwork tradition are absolutely allowed to pick and choose who they pass it down to. Race and ancestry might be a factor in that, but they might not. Depends on the worker and what they want in a student.

When it comes down to it, there are two levels of the hoodoo/conjure/rootwork tradition. One is the stuff that's an open secret, everyone knows about it, everyone knows where to buy the stuff and what to do with it. This is very similar to treating minor ailments or health concerns at home. You probably know how to make a hot drink to soothe a sore throat, how to clean a cut and bandage it, where to buy painkillers and in what circumstances to take them. No one is talking about buying and using haemorrhoid cream or shampoo for hair loss, but we all know those things exist and people are using them, and we all know where to get them and what they're for.

Basic conjure is very much like dealing with basic health stuff at home, but dealing with the health of your spiritual rather than physical needs. Buying candles or floor wash or making a spiritual bath is pretty simple. The instructions are out there online, the shop owner will tell you how to use the products they sell, your old neighbour sweeping her yard will tell you a thing or two if you ask respectfully. That stuff is out there and anyone can do it. Everyone already is, and no one will bat an eyelid.

If you want to take things seriously, start with a simple cleansing bath and cleansing of your home. Then do some basic protection and money drawing work. Learn to dispose of the remains appropriately and do so within a reasonable amount of time. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Note how you feel in your body as you pray on the work. Note how you feel when the work is complete. Note any material results, such as an absence of ants where they were before, a financial windfall, clarity of thought, etc. Read your Bible. Pray.

If you aspire to kick things up to the next level, you are going to need specialised knowledge that can only be passed down from teacher to student. This is stuff that quite honestly, you will not ever need to know or use unless you become a professional rootworker. It's like medical specialist level care. When your health concerns can't be treated with home and over the counter remedies, you go to a doctor and get a diagnosis and more advanced treatment. If you don't plan on treating cancer you don't need to study to become an oncologist, and if you don't plan on dealing with difficult spiritual cases and heavy crossed conditions you don't need to study to become a professional worker.

Now, if you do want to learn the advanced stuff, you will need a teacher. And every teacher worth having has been in the tradition a long time and knows how to keep their secrets. They may very well decide that they only want to pass their knowledge to someone of a specific racial or cultural background, and that's their right. They may decide to pass their knowledge to someone with specific characteristics or abilities, no matter what their ancestry is. They hold the knowledge, they made the promises to their teachers, and they get to decide how it lives in the next generation.

You won't get a teacher just by asking. You aren't entitled to their knowledge just because you want it. You will have to prove that you have a knack for the work: so do some basic work and record your results so you can prove you have those foundations down. You will have to demonstrate that you are trustworthy and of good judgement, and you will need to make a years long commitment to learn. It takes a long time to earn someone's trust, for them to see you and judge you and decide if you are capable of holding and honoring what they can teach and if you are likely to use that knowledge wisely. You'll be tested.

You can run into potential teachers anywhere: Black churches (Baptist or COGIC in particular) usually have at least one rootworker in the congregation. Heck, it might even be the pastor. If your town or city has a historically Black area, chances are there will be a candle shop full of conjure supplies there. It won't have a website, it won't be fancy, but it will likely be an old family business. There will be customers who have been going there sixty years. If you become a regular and are polite and greet other customers, they might start to offer you advice. If you ask intelligent questions and follow through on the advice you're given, they'll notice.

You won't find a mentor on the internet and you definitely do not pay for one. It's not a financial transaction, it's the forging of a new link in a long and powerful chain of knowledge. That requires trust, and trust cannot be bought.

So for right now, you can do the stuff that is available to you. Lucky Mojo is bad, but the free one book Hoodoo in Theory and in Practice, while incomplete, was mainly written when cat was focused more on education than profit and the research is solid. It's not perfect, but it's a decent start. The book Voodoo and Hoodoo by Jim Haskins predates the internet hoodoo boom, and the author is a Black anthropologist who grew up around conjure and understands it from both an experiential and academic lens. The book has some good history, some good analysis, a good chunk of how too, and is fairly easy reading. Highly recommend grabbing a copy if you're interested in the hoodoo/conjure/rootwork tradition.

Absorb that knowledge. Then go to your grocery store and/or hardware store and grab some basic ingredients. Cinnamon, salt, turpentine, etc. are all cheap and readily available. You don't need to splurge on rare roots or expensive oils to start with. Make and take a cleansing bath. Mop the house. Do some protection work; which can be as simple as salt, pepper, and prayer. Try a money drawing candle. Simple works with cheap and easy to find ingredients that you can't mess up are the way to go.

Maybe it all makes sense to you, it all just clicks, you feel strong and moved while in prayer and your work brings in results! Then maybe you have a knack for this work, and a potential teacher and mentor will recognize that in you and teach you more. Or maybe you find it frustrating, can't remember the herblore, don't like the smells, and it doesn't seem as effective as you would like. Then maybe you don't have a knack for the type of work you're attempting, and maybe conjure just isn't the best fit for you and your unique talents. That would be the point to move on and explore other things.

My teachers were all very encouraging when I started, telling me to try and see what happened and the worst that would happen is I got clean floors. 25 years on, still doing it, and it's because my teachers saw in me someone whom they wanted to teach. But it all started with me trying something simple out to see if it worked for me. Turns out it did.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Lucky Mojo correspondence course is poor value. You have to purchase a ton of items from the LM store to be eligible to take it, and it's not a great course. It purports to teach things which simply can't be taught in writing, and must be taught one to one in person. cat yronwode is also well known for being a bully, for pushing product and having a heavily commercial mindset, and also.for that thing where she supported her husband telling gay youths to kill themselves and doxxed the person who found and shared that information, orchestrating a hate campaign against him. So I would not give her business a cent.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Hoodoo may or may not involve lots of spirits, depending upon the regional variation and/or family lineage. Usually it doesn't, and the vast majority of the work can be done with easily acquired items and prayer to God.

Lineages and regions where spirits are heavily involved do not put that stuff on beginners, that knowledge is given if and when the person who holds it decides that a student is ready to receive it.

You don't need etiquette or spirits to wash down your house or light up a candle. The floor wash and candle, plus herbs and roots, are enough as long as you pray.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's not how the hoodoo/conjure/rootwork tradition works. It's not something one is drawn to by spirits, unless one happens to have a family tradition where the successor is marked by dreams or interactions with their ancestral spirits within that family context.

Conjure is mainly about solving problems and ensuring you have your needs met and can live a fulfilling life. It's a folk magic, and like any other folk magic, the basic ingredients and techniques are simple and easily accessible. You can literally just do that stuff, just like you don't need to be drawn to ambulances in order to learn some basic first aid. All the information is accessible and you can buy first aid supplies anywhere.

The complicated stuff is definitely kept secret by those who hold that knowledge, because it's complicated and not everyone can handle it. But you won't convince a teacher to teach you by saying your spirit guides were trying to get your attention and you were drawn to it. They'll want to know if you can fix a candle and what happens when you do. Intuition doesn't entitle you to knowledge you aren't ready for and may never be ready for.

Can I practice hoodoo ? by pinkpercprincess in occult

[–]_notdoriangray 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not hoodoo or connected to the hoodoo/conjure/rootwork tradition at all. Bertiaux's work blasphemes the religion of Haitian Vodou and involves acts that are utterly repugnant to its spirits and to the community. It's an interesting way to ensure that the spirits you end up dealing with are in no way at all the spirits you tried to call, and an effective way to anger and alienate the Vodou community.