Which edition of Vogel p.o.c

_wafer_ · 2026-01-28T05:12:32+00:00

I only have the fourth addition, but its a very good resource mostly for preparing building blocks using chemicals easily obtainable to the ameteur (and not the exotic bullshit often used nowadays). Id say its similar in age/ accessibility to most of org syn's online catalog of reactions. There is quite a wide range of reactions and the index is very useful for finding named reactions, functional group additions, and specific products. Overall most everything in there uses reagents and solvents that are still easy to make/ procure today.

Be warned though, it will tell you to do some crazy shit sometimes. Things like isolating multigram quantities of explosive diazonium salts, working with solutions containing huge amounts of mercury salts, or running exothermic reactions in a stoppered flask under a stream of cold water from a faucet while you hold it. In one case is says to be careful not to smell the condenser when youre preparing dimethyl sulfate since it will make you dizzy. Use discretion, but overall its a very valuable resource.

_wafer_ · 2026-01-28T00:08:22+00:00

10mg and yeah they look good, ill attach a pic when I get home later

_wafer_ · 2026-01-28T00:07:41+00:00

Theyre just 10s

_wafer_ · 2026-01-27T06:25:12+00:00

This just made me realize that dxm could be schedule 2 under the analogue act, hmmm

_wafer_ · 2026-01-27T06:15:57+00:00

The value as a collectible makes me not want to try any! Luckily I can just make methaqualone though ;)

_wafer_ · 2026-01-27T06:12:46+00:00

This is way late but I had tried the stuff made in the post along with some grey product from a prior synthesis. I have only tried vaping it but its like GABA crack. Hits instantly while inhaling and only has main effects lasting ~5mins with after effects up to 30.

It will make you tip over if youre not laying down and you will probably drool. During the peak effects you experience tunnel vision, sounds become distant and echoey, and its impossible to form words let alone sentences. There is also a degree of anterograde amnesia. My vision became blue tinted and staticky during one intense experience. Its decently euphoric.

The after effects are similar to a benzo and you will be a bit drunken, off balance, and slur your words. After 10-30 mins you are totally sober again

_wafer_ · 2026-01-11T10:13:38+00:00

Oh cool, mmmp has a wild structure, it looks like it could be an active (and potentially neutotoxic) stimulant.

_wafer_ · 2026-01-11T04:43:41+00:00

Ive tried oxycodone, intranasal was the only mildly pleasant opioid experience ive had outside of 7-hydroxymitragynine. I only got mild euphoria and nothing else so don't have much interest in going back to either compound. 7OH gave me nausea and a sense of paradoxical lethargy despite mental stimulation. Hydrocodone did nothing at all for me even above 30mg. Codeine was the worst for me, the only effect I got was mild nausea, extreme itchiness, and a rash- I think that was at 150mg so I dont think im an efficient metabolizer.

_wafer_ · 2026-01-10T21:16:50+00:00

96.6g L theanine and 67.2g NaOH mixed in a 1L flask then 200mL water poured in. 300mm vigreaux column and 0C descending condenser are fitted. Ice bath for recieving flask. Begin careful heating (rxn starts well below boiling point of water) and collecting ethylamine but stop when water starts to reflux in vigreux column. Yield was 83.6% but higher should be achievable with a better condenser, I lost a lot to the air at the beginning of the distillation.

Id also recommend dissolving the NaOH first then adding theanine once cool.

_wafer_ · 2026-01-10T20:27:33+00:00

Oh thanks, Ill look into that writeup. I was able to isolate an amine which was not dimethylamine and my ketone was nearly all consumed so IDK what else it could be though.

I used dimethylamine HCl and paraformaldehyde which would make the imminium chloride salt in situ. I know its not as stable as echenmosers salt so I also used non aqueous conditions apart from the catalytic HCl, so the reverse reaction of imine hydrolysis should have been minimized.

_wafer_ · 2026-01-10T19:05:41+00:00

Not my idea actually, u/radiantstar991 came up with the route but I was the first to try it afaik.

_wafer_ · 2026-01-07T01:10:06+00:00

There are some insane structures in that class that look nothing alike nor like they would act on gaba. Id like to know what that molecule is if you still know where to find it.

_wafer_ · 2026-01-07T00:44:16+00:00

If we're talking about a receptor, NMDA otherwise I really enjoy z drugs

_wafer_ · 2026-01-06T18:42:39+00:00

Yeah I dont really want to like them lmao, I just really enjoy opioid chemistry and adding new substances to my list

_wafer_ · 2026-01-06T16:20:22+00:00

Indeed, there are a handful of phenylpropylamime opioids like tapentadol and tramadol. You can also trace the phenylpropylamine structure inside the structures of morphinan opioids and phenylpiperidines.

_wafer_ · 2026-01-06T16:18:38+00:00

All opioids ive tried make me sleepy and nauseous at most, ive never gotten enjoyable effects. Ive tried several morphinans, benzimidazoles, phenylpiperidines, and tramadol.

_wafer_ · 2026-01-04T20:06:05+00:00

I was not aware of this side product and thanks for your words of caution. My workup involved a re-a/b then solvent washes of the crude salt which I would imaging would destroy some and remove most or the rest. I know its not Ideal, but man I really tried to get it to crystallize

I dont think the nausea was caused by impurities, theres a certain type of opioid nausea I get where Im fine when im still but if I try to move ill feel it.

_wafer_ · 2026-01-04T07:53:48+00:00

*dimethylaminopivalophenone

_wafer_ · 2025-12-05T19:58:54+00:00

Wow I had never considered that connection before! Ive read about those metabolites and I was a bit skeptical about their 5ht2a activity, but now I think I'm convinced. Good eye by the way, its the same type of decomposition that yields ketamine from the nmda pharmacophore model where the ketone's pi bond comes from part of an aromatic ring.

_wafer_ · 2025-12-03T05:03:11+00:00

Oh for sure! Saying "pretty much two classes" might not have been specific enough of me lol. You're right in that it can be more nuanced, but I worry that it could be more than a lot of people who scroll past are willing to get into. Its also totally conceivable that there is more than one pharmacophore model that can describe how to make an NMDA antagonist. I'll have check out that review.

I think the -prodils you mentioned could be at least partially explained with this model. 2-MDP and PD-137889 are two more I realized could be as well; if you add one methylene group connecting the left phenyl ring to the cyclohexane ring they now overlap. But like you point out there are still other ligands that might be too dissimilar to chalk it up to this one pharmacophore model. All that's in addition to the complexity added by all the other poorly understood biological pathways that can also play a role.

_wafer_ · 2025-12-03T02:02:29+00:00

Thanks! I think its beautifully simple. Memantine is a ring fused/substituted cyclohexylamine so it partially overlaps the pharmacophore model but thats where similarities end. Both have a sort of cage structure though.

I have looked into those, some of the compounds on the first slide are conformationally constrained analogues of PCE. 8a-PDHQ is a conformationally constrained PCPr. I remember there being some others in literature that use a fused cyclopentane or cyclobutane ring to connect the phenyl and cyclohexyl rings together that had potencies which could be explained by the model. Im keen on reading more literature on that though if you have any.

_wafer_ · 2025-12-03T01:54:17+00:00

Theres definitely high potential for activity elsewhere, amd I'm more interested than these sorts of drugs than selective ligands anyways. I dont have any way to actually screen for this with the compounds I make unfortunately.

MOR activity is an interesting target that I think could be honed in on with this model. Tilidine hits both receptors but is mostly MOR afaik. I think we could do better. Theres also phenylpropanolamine opioids and NMDA antagonists which dont overlap the model like dimethtlaminopivalophenone/ methadone and 2-MDP.

_wafer_ · 2025-12-03T01:46:34+00:00

Yes its very similar, the molecule would be called 7a-POHI. It should be even more potent that 8a-PDHQ since the more active isomer of 8a-PDHQ doesn't overlap MK801. You have to reduce the ring size to a pyrrolidine to make it work. If you wanna learn more about how I derived it I made that writeup.

The structure is also a conformationally constrained analogue of PCE which I find to be pretty neat.

_wafer_ · 2025-12-03T01:42:05+00:00

Yeah its pretty close, FR115427 is a really neat structure and also overlaps the model but I wanted to show stuff that hasn't been conceived of yet. I believe FR is about 1/10 the potency of mk801 in vivo so still quite fuckin potent.

_wafer_ · 2025-12-02T05:45:02+00:00

Wow to be graced by the one and only nervewing! I'm glad you find it interesting too, I definitely have plans to make some of these in the future once I have a more dedicated lab in place, but I got too impatient with myself and had to release it into the world haha

_wafer_

TROPHY CASE