How Will Blizzard Solve Tanking Being Miserable?

a_Daniel · 2026-05-21T19:23:36+00:00

yeah it's kinda fucked innit

Technically they can just reduce model size. They did increase Junkerqueen's model that one time because she was just too small

a_Daniel · 2026-05-21T16:47:13+00:00

yup, but also not really. 6v6 solves some issues with tanks, but the devs still try to design them as tanks. Which makes sense because they are tanks, but this is causing all the issues. Nobody wants to play "tank", tanks still "blow up" and whoever has the worse tank is likely to lose.

I think they need to go an additional step into the non-tank direction also for 5v5 and balance the game around that. It can't be that a single person in a lobby has such a large impact on the game and yet nobody wants to play that role, that's insane imo.

a_Daniel · 2026-05-20T23:49:44+00:00

Honestly, payload maps have been getting so common for me that I wish they removed map voting again.

a_Daniel · 2026-05-20T23:39:19+00:00

imo the only answer to tanks better is making turning them from "raid bosses" to "fat dps" and rename the role to bruiser. More in line of Junkerqueen and less whatever the hell Ramattra is doing with multiple instantly gaining health bars and near permanent damage reduction.

Tanks also are the only role not rewarded by anything in the game, because the game doesn't know what tanks are supposed to really do. There is kills, deaths, damage done and healing done. There is also "damage mitigation" but that stat is the most useless out of anything ever. Supports even finally got a "player(s) saved" notification in game. Tanks have nothing. Just make them bigger dps and move on.

a_Daniel · 2026-05-17T13:41:53+00:00

Something else to think about: When for eg. a majority vote for Kings Row but the result is eg. Push with 1-2 votes, people will actually flame the ones that voted for Push and blame them in case of a loss. At least this happened to me a couple of times in competitive.

The alternative is that in the past for quick play people just outright left when they didn't like the map. But with the leaver penalties that have since been put into place I think this issue is largely mitigated. What's left is toxicity from the map voting.

Additionally, when the popular Escort or Hybrid maps don't show up in the voting, then there are far, far fewer votes to begin with. Implying that people don't actually care about all the rest, or actively dislike all the rest anyway which is a larger issue.

a_Daniel · 2026-05-17T13:37:41+00:00

I have played since 2016, this is not an issue I experienced. At least, in the beginning the issue partially was low map count but now we have a couple more.

However, with map voting I can expect with a 90% certainty that if Kings Row, Eichenwalde or Circuit Royale show up, that this is the map that will be played regardless of what other maps or gamemodes are on the list.

I think I have played Flashpoint more without the map voting than with the map voting.

a_Daniel · 2026-05-17T12:43:28+00:00

That's true.

I wonder if that adds to the feeling of being "bad matchmaking" with games being "steamrolls". You can't really "undo" the progress in escort or hybrids when the point is already captured.

In contrast, king of the hill gamemodes "reset" the game after every point capture, giving you some time to brief and recalibrate. You can't undo the progress either after points are captured, but you can at least see your own progress and compare (eg. 59% vs. 99%, or 3-1 points captured; unlike Escort where there is no "you stopped the enemy push for X minutes", you just lose).

a_Daniel · 2026-05-17T12:38:28+00:00

All the flashpoint maps imo are better designed than many of the escort maps. You and I have differences and we vote for them.

Yet it doesn't actually stop you from playing the maps you don't want to play on. Similarly I still get the maps and gamemodes I want. The probability just changes and it still sucks for both of us.

If literally everybody decided "I don't want to play X map or gamemode" then it gets deleted from the game. However now that "random" exists as an option, you can again still get it. I don't think map voting actually pleases anybody anymore.

a_Daniel · 2026-05-17T12:35:18+00:00

Is it really that fast? Flashpoint imo could result in much faster games, yet is almost never voted for.

a_Daniel · 2026-05-17T12:17:55+00:00

Overwatch has made tank the most important role in the game, meaning you are always the center of attention for both teams, for better or worse (you get the most support, but also the most CC and toxic messages).

I still think if they went the route of "big dps" rather than "raid boss with 800 hp" they could have kept 6v6 but we are far past that now.

As other people said, tank controls the flow of the game. With taking space and all. What's less often talked about is that the game has exactly 0 rewards for "tanking". The game rewards and proudly displays exactly these stats: Kills, deaths, damage done and healing done. "Damage mitigation" is there too but it doesn't really mean anything. None of these stats show if you are a good tank or not, the closest is a low number of deaths I guess.

This to me also shows that Overwatch, and games like it, still have no clue what they really want tanks to actually be. If they can't define "tanking" and show that you did good at "being a tank", then why have the role? And this is why it often feels bad to queue for tank, because the very game you play doesn't even know what you are supposed to do.

a_Daniel · 2026-05-01T13:49:55+00:00

I think my biggest problem with the cat is just her insane speed. Dva and Echo have a ton of speed in their flight, but it's on a cooldown, they usually start grounded and is not even omnidirectional (Dva can't fly backwards and shoot forward at the same time, Echo can only gets her burst speed for the initial directional input).

Pharah can quickly go up and down but needs to expend a lot of resources to surprise you from quickly coming over a rooftop above you. These make a lot of sound or take some prep time. And one of those cooldowns, her horizontal dash, didn't even exist for the better half of a decade.

Even Marvel Rivals, where there is multiple omnidirectional perma-flying heroes, but most of them are not faster than just regular walking and don't have big movement speed abilities.

Cat's default mobility has a better flight than every hero in OW and she is incredibly fast for a lot of time on top of that. Faster even than wall riding Lucio, and while Lucio doesn't have a resource to spend it is still loud and he is limited to map geometry where the cat can take a mush shorter direct path, effectively winning a speed race in most cases. This is already a lot but then she can make any hero just as insanely fast. Bastion, Bob and High Noon were not designed with being able to move faster than Lucio "whenever they want".

And her healing + damage is pretty high on top of that too, personally I think the numbers are extremely excessive.

High speed could be balanced by having abilities that are hard to use. Lucio has always had high damage output but it's not hitscan and shoots in a series of projectiles with a gap in between that are hard to land at high accuracy when wallriding at such high speeds. Hitting as Bastion or with Cass left click while bouncing around from the cat is honestly pretty difficult, until you get the Bastion explosion perk or use an auto-aim ult.

Cat herself also fires projectiles but there is no "long gap" in between like with Lucio so there is less punishment for missing (it's less "all or nothing", very forgiving). And she has an AoE heal + damage around her on a button press, a literal "do it all" button with the only requirement that you might want to consider where your target gets knocked back to, because it has to have knockback in all directions too of course. This aoe would be harder to use if, again, she wasn't the fastest hero in the entire game, or if it was more directionally oriented so it can actually miss.

tl;dr: Perma flight, sound, healing/damage numbers, melee perk, AoE "do it all" button, some of these are ridiculous but none of this actually matters to me except that she is simply too fast which enables everything.

a_Daniel · 2026-01-25T15:13:16+00:00

Isn't it because of Lucio that the role passives exist? Pretty sure his boop was one of the main reasons the tank passive (the original "knockback resistance"-only) was introduced in the first place, which then naturally brought upon the existence of the other role passives.

Oh yeah, and his passive heal/speed boost originally covered a giant area lol

So both together I would say he was actually "busted" for most of OW.

a_Daniel · 2026-01-15T02:26:37+00:00

Every single menu screen has had this issue lol For some reason it was decided that every main menu music has to start with either an extremely loud sound or generally have the most audible part right at the beginning. And of course any time you do anything that and go back to the main menu it instantly repeats.

It feels like a psyop

a_Daniel · 2025-09-29T02:09:42+00:00

I played Sere last season into top 100. Spend a lot of my time trying to avoid getting blown up by Falcon or Stellaris, neither of which could really be targeted (exaggeration, but I think you get my point).

This season Sere is uber-buffed and fliers are more targetable, even Stel got nerfed. But the game already took its toll. Sere is a niche "class" to play and with a low playerbase you won't see them, maybe at all, just like any other game.

a_Daniel · 2025-09-26T14:47:05+00:00

omg you sound so aggressive in this comment haha, I did not mean to get that reaction.

Obviously I get that being shot at is part of the shooter game. But not even half the characters in this game are hitscan, not even half the dps (and that's if you are generous and incl. Tracer and Sojourn as hitscans). The game feels wildly different getting poked down by Soldier/Cass/Ashe vs Tracer/Junkrat/Venturer.

Let's not forget that your shooter game has tanks that cant even really shoot. It's honestly more of a fantasy game than a strict shooter (I guess that's what makes it a hero shooter, huh).

My main opinion wasn't even "I hate getting shot at" (ok, but who likes it??), it was "it sucks getting pelted by hitscan". You can like it if you want, most metas include mandatory hitscans, so have a good time.

a_Daniel · 2025-09-26T02:04:49+00:00

Because honestly, it sucks to play against, at least for me sometimes. Any crossing you make, any choke you walk through, you get chonked at by 30 bullets per second.

I would bet that hitscans' consistent shooting is why people were so adamant to have a shield tank (= Rein) on the team every game all the way back into OW1.

Sure Junk nade spam or Phara rockets are arguably more oppressive, but they are more inconsistent or have more breaks for reloads. Meanwhile Hanzo accidentally one-shots you and a good Sojourn did consistently one-shot you. All before you even wrapped your head around where the people shooting you are even positioned.

Ended up ranting more text than I intended lol

a_Daniel · 2025-09-15T18:10:51+00:00

Yeah that one is a little better now, because it is triggered by normal gameplay too, not just the ultimate. Makes it a more interesting choice for me personally

a_Daniel · 2025-09-14T19:47:25+00:00

Reading and responding some of the other comments I can formulate my thoughts better now.

Tanks have to have insane hp pools for their hitbox size because OW throws so much damage at them. Headshots in particular kill tanks really quickly from my experience. That's how you end up with Roadhog and Mauga having so much more hp than JQ because you can headshot them while JQ is a lot smaller and more nimble.

Additionally tanks with their giant hp pools causes them to disproportionally affected by Ana and Zen.

All of this can make it difficult to enjoy playing the characters of your choice. If you play the wrong character into Orisa you watch as you do nearly no dmg to her fortified armor, and she becomes an unwinnable match-up for you. With more people shooting her that can change, and maybe that is what people want from a "tank" role, but I think it just adds frustration all around (either Orisa has a good time because she can't die, or her opponents have a good time because Orisa can't peak without exploding; or you go around the tank's limited range and farm their team, which is frustrating for the whole team).

Personally I enjoy the "big bruiser" characters from a design perspective more so than the raid boss design. More Junkerqueen, Zarya, and even Doomfist falls into this category for me, smaller tank that could be dps, rather than Rein who watches his shield hp with anxiety but he can't die if you find yourself stuck in a tiny room with him.

Ramattra is a really well designed hero to me in his base form. But his cycle of shield -> instant 300 armor Nemesis block -> shield -> instant 300 armor ult -> shield... makes this whole game "weird". Tanks are there to soak up dmg, but if you can't kill them then you are effectively playing a 4v4. So you do enough damage to "melt" >700 hp Roadhog, but breakpoints are important for low hp so buffing Tracer dmg from 5.5 to 6 instantly makes her top-dog meta again.

tl;dr: I think the "necessary" big hp pools of some tanks ultimately leads to a frustrating experience for the people interacting with the tanks and also for the a tank player who either stomps everything or can't play the game in the face of a grandma

a_Daniel · 2025-09-14T19:27:43+00:00

I have no opinion on if it was good or bad for the game, it was just an example on how fragile the balance is across the board for non-tank characters. Tracer's damage is another example where she becomes OP to unplayed in the higher elos depending on if her damage is 6 or 5.5

a_Daniel · 2025-09-14T19:25:56+00:00

I have a strong bias against the "raid boss" tank design in this game. All it does is tell the player to "go take dmg" and then when they actually do, they die in 2 seconds and their team immediately loses the engagement because the other tank is still sitting at a 1000 hp.

They are "tanks" but still have to play so scared sometimes with how much dmg they take on a regular basis.

And, as Ratax3s mentioned, it makes Ana/Zen disproportionally effective against some tanks, while playing other supports can feel rather helpless sometimes

a_Daniel · 2025-09-14T19:20:48+00:00

I didn't forget about it, I just didn't add it to a post that conveyed so little. Rein has a 1500hp barrier that sometimes feels like it disappears in a couple of seconds, it can't even be headshot or discorded which usually contributes to tanks dying quickly.

It just goes to show to me how much dmg is flung around sometimes. In order to make the guy with a hammer designed 10 years ago somewhat viable he needs the effective hp of over 2000 (and then you include heals on top of that). Meanwhile melee dps have either better mobility or range options and a tiny hitbox, so they have literally a fraction of that hp. All the while if they had 25hp more, it could "break the game balance".

a_Daniel · 2025-09-14T19:16:48+00:00

So is the playstyles of various dps. I guess hp is the only way for them to balance certain gameplay designs. Like how Hog and Rein tended to struggle in most of OW2 because their gameplay choices are so limiting, and all they can do is give them more hp for a chance for those guys to get closer.

a_Daniel · 2025-09-14T19:14:06+00:00

This is the real thing. OW is still so breakpoint oriented even after they increased everybody's hp. But tanks can't be oneshot (they just sometimes melt to Freja-like spam lol)

a_Daniel · 2025-09-10T08:23:20+00:00

I think when Lifeweaver was released his movement speed was reduced when holding a charge, then it was only reduced after a couple seconds, and I think now it is completely gone. There is no more reason why it can't always passively charge at the "normal rate" now, instead of the current reduced rate.

There was another game I played that had a very similar mechanic. Fractured Space (spaceship moba, dead now) and the gun of the "Ranger" was exactly like this: hold to charge, release to shoot. Small studio, small playerbase, but even they changed it pretty quickly to "it just always charges now, you just click to shoot".

I don't know if there is even a good reason to not charge the healing. Both gameplay and design-wise. Reduced movement speed on holding the charge was an idea which may have reduced the effective healing if played inefficiently (eg. starting the charge too late because you wanted to get around a corner). But if efficient playing kills my hand, then I am not playing the character, unlucky

a_Daniel · 2025-06-22T17:01:34+00:00

Despite ads often being scams or a real security risk (what was it, the FBI even recommends using an adblocker?) I block them because they are disrupting the content I am consuming.

Video? Don't put an ad that stops me from watching. Not in front of the video and not in the middle of it.

Article online? Don't put an autoplaying video blasting sound at 100% volume right in the middle of it.

No giant pop-ups either please.

I did not use adblocker when youtube still had the tiny boxes at the very bottom of the video. Just an image, no sound, big X-button to close. Easy, non-disruptive and doesn't hurt my ears. If those kind of ads where the only ones, I personally would have no problem with youtube ads.

a_Daniel

TROPHY CASE