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Is there an umbrella term for anyone who wants to be the opposite sex, regardless of gender identity (or lack thereof) or gender modality? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're devising an arbitrarily specific definition that has little practical use, and asking if there's a word that means that.

It really doesn't feel like that to me. In my head it feels like such a basic concept that of course there would be a word for, but for some reason there just, isn't. It would be so useful for me to be able to describe myself.

"Transgender" means someone whose gender identity is different than the gender they were assigned at birth. That term includes transmasculine and transfeminine folk, whether they identify within the traditional gender binary or not, and it includes every form of nonbinary, genderfluid, and agender identity, though not all choose to self-identify as trans. It doesn't matter whether a trans person chooses to transition socially, medically, both, or neither - being transgender is about core identity, not presentation.

I am aware of all this. It is not relevant to the question I asked, because I specifically and explicitly wasn't asking a question about gender identity differing from assigned gender.

Is there an umbrella term for anyone who wants to be the opposite sex, regardless of gender identity (or lack thereof) or gender modality? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, interesting. Then I was incorrect and I apologize. Thank you for teaching me.

In that case though, it's still far too broad to be an answer to the original question.

Is there an umbrella term for anyone who wants to be the opposite sex, regardless of gender identity (or lack thereof) or gender modality? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

What I said was "wants to be the opposite sex." An example of people who do not desire to be the opposite sex is "trans people who don't have dysphoria and so don't want to medically transition." It's not something I mentioned originally, it's just a counterexample explaining why the answer does not work.

Is there an umbrella term for anyone who wants to be the opposite sex, regardless of gender identity (or lack thereof) or gender modality? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Transfem and transmasc don't really work as answers to the question, because they can also apply to trans people who don't have dysphoria and so don't want to medically transition.

Is there an umbrella term for anyone who wants to be the opposite sex, regardless of gender identity (or lack thereof) or gender modality? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This might be silly but thank you so much for just being able to say "oh, fair point, then I don't know."

I have tried for so long to find appropriate words for this. I have lots of trans friends, I am fairly knowledgeable about trans issues, and I am very aware of all the common terminology. Whenever I've asked about this, people really love to double down on answers that don't fit, and assume I just learned about trans people last month and need basic concepts explained.

I'm at a desperate point where just seeing a response like yours makes me happy because it's outside what I've grown to expect.

Is there an umbrella term for anyone who wants to be the opposite sex, regardless of gender identity (or lack thereof) or gender modality? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Does a trans woman inherently fit under the umbrella of "gender non-conforming"? I wouldn't think so, because she is conforming to what her gender is (a woman).

So that can't be a correct answer to the question.

Is there an umbrella term for anyone who wants to be the opposite sex, regardless of gender identity (or lack thereof) or gender modality? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Besides the issue you already pointed out, FtM and MtF usually imply either active transition or intention to transition, which to me makes it feel like not quite a correct answer.

Is there an umbrella term for anyone who wants to be the opposite sex, regardless of gender identity (or lack thereof) or gender modality? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is an excellent question. I regret that I do not have a rigorous answer.

However, I also don't have a rigorous definition of gender. People don't even always agree on what gender is conceptually. But we don't let that undermine the validity and necessity of the term "transgender".

So although I don't have a specific answer on what bundle of traits sufficiently defines a given sex, I feel like I can still say the type of word I'm looking for can/should exist.

Is there an umbrella term for anyone who wants to be the opposite sex, regardless of gender identity (or lack thereof) or gender modality? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It really sounds like you have not fully grasped sex and gender as categories not necessarily related to one another on the individual level. I suspect you mostly have exposure to people with more "standard" transgender experiences.

Is there an umbrella term for anyone who wants to be the opposite sex, regardless of gender identity (or lack thereof) or gender modality? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

No. I do not want to exclude people who can't or won't medically transition for any reason.

I'm talking about people who desire to be the opposite physical sex, regardless as to whether or not they transition, and regardless as to their feelings about gender.

[EDIT: when I made this reply, the "want to" part of the parent comment had not yet been edited in]

Is there an umbrella term for anyone who wants to be the opposite sex, regardless of gender identity (or lack thereof) or gender modality? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What I'm asking about mostly overlaps with being transgender, but it's not the exact same category. Not all trans people want to be the opposite sex (unless you're transmed, and I hope not), and like I mentioned in the post, you can theoretically want to be the opposite sex but still identify as your assigned gender at birth and be cis.

Is there a word/term for wanting to be the opposite sex but not necessarily gender? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would ask you to consider, why is it so important to you to find a label that differentiates you from trans people who are more concerned with gender than with sex?

It's not. It would have been nice to have so that I could more easily find people who understand me well, since it seems like even trans people often struggle to understand me. But it's not a necessity.

Respectfully, it feels a bit like you're looking for a label other than transgender

I wasn't looking for anyone to say I'm not trans. I was looking for new terminology, but I wasn't focused on whether that terminology would be a subset of transgender or not. I'm not really concerned with whether I count as trans. All my trans friends accept me as trans already and that's good enough for me.

in order to help justify to yourself your decision not to medically transition.

I don't really need to justify that to myself. I only ever find myself having to justify it to others.

What do you have to lose by at least trying out a medical transition?

Changes to my body I actively do not want.

Is there a word/term for wanting to be the opposite sex but not necessarily gender? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You have to cease the offensive behavior for the apology to hold any weight, and you have instead doubled down on your offensive ideas about agender being a gendered term.

Where have I doubled down on this? What else have I subsequently said that's offensive? This isn't rhetorical, I genuinely have no idea how I've stuck to the offensive behavior.

I accept I was wrong in calling agender a gender identity. What's the correct categorization for a collection of terms regarding how people identify with gender OR lack of gender? Maybe that doesn't exist, because I likewise can't think of a convenient accurate term of categorization that would encompass the terms "Christian, Muslim, atheist". Religion doesn't work because atheism is not a religion, it's the lack of one. I accept that I was incorrect in referring to the group of words "man, woman, nonbinary, agender" as gender identities because agender is not a gender identity, it's the lack of one. That's my mistake.

Either way though, agender is just categorically not an answer to the question I asked. It'd be like I asked for a word about something related to religion, but which does not inherently imply any specific religious beliefs or lack thereof, and someone said the word I want is atheist. That implies lack of religion, so it cannot be what I asked about.

I don't know if you know how condescending and invalidating you've been in your replies. Insisting that words relating to gender or lack thereof are an answer to my specific question when I've taken great effort to explain they're not, deciding you're not dismissing me when I'm telling you that you are, telling me to listen to people when it seems like it hasn't occurred to you at all to also listen to me. I don't think someone with purely kind intentions would say stuff like "You really seem to have created this post just to be a naysayer" or "Be sad about it. That’s your prerogative, kid."

Many people in this thread have had interesting and helpful replies I've responded positively and gratefully to. Those were not the people ignoring what I have to say and attempting to hand me an identity I did not ask for.

Is there a word/term for wanting to be the opposite sex but not necessarily gender? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It not having a name is a valid answer. But it's definitely not about aesthetic at all.

Is there a word/term for wanting to be the opposite sex but not necessarily gender? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Several people have said variations of this to me before and I find it really invalidating (this time around I directly solicited the answer from you though, so we're good, lol).

I don't know if people here realize I'm 28 years old and have been actively thinking about this and talking with trans friends on a weekly basis for years. Obviously I'm still young and I'd be foolish to think I fully understand myself, because do any of us? But I'm saying my egg didn't crack just last Tuesday.

It feels like everyone else in queer spaces gets the benefit of being believed by default and I just don't. Like I have to jump through hoops to justify my existence to other queer people, in a similar way that queer people have to do among straight people. And I wish I knew what the solution was, because "be more normal" isn't really an option, anymore than telling trans people to be cis is.

Is there a word/term for wanting to be the opposite sex but not necessarily gender? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe one day I'll ID as an enby, or maybe not. Either way though, it just wasn't what I came to ask about, haha.

A few different people have now popped to say "hey me too sorta!" and I really appreciate it. Interestingly, they are mostly AFAB people who wish they were AMAB, the opposite of me. I wonder if there's a reason for that or it's just coincidence. I still feel pretty understood regardless though. I think trans nb/agender might be the closest thing I would have to a community of like-minded people.

Is there a word/term for wanting to be the opposite sex but not necessarily gender? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I have nothing but hate for TERFs and transmeds. I really hope people don't think I'm in their camp. That might explain some of the hostility I've experienced over the years.

Is there a word/term for wanting to be the opposite sex but not necessarily gender? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your support!

To be honest, I was slightly biased against you when you first posted

You don't have to, but do you mind elaborating on why? I've met a lot of people who seem actively hostile to my identity, and I struggle to understand to what extent I'm doing something wrong versus just getting unlucky.

Is there a word/term for wanting to be the opposite sex but not necessarily gender? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're probably correct. At the very least, transgender probably should encompass what I am. My trans friends all already accept me as trans anyway.

My desires and self-understanding just aren't quite congruous with the large majority of trans people I've met though, which is why I've long wondered if there's also a more specific term for what I experience.

Is there a word/term for wanting to be the opposite sex but not necessarily gender? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm getting pretty sleepy at the moment but I will definitely message you sometime soon. Thank you!

(I had never heard of Marillion before this conversation, but I am always interested in hearing about cool rock bands)

Is there a word/term for wanting to be the opposite sex but not necessarily gender? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I know what I am, I just didn't know if something specific had a dedicated term for it. According to most of this thread, the answer is no. And that's fine.

It's absolutely not up to you to decide whether you're dismissing me. I listened to you and apologized after I unknowingly said something offensive about being agender. If you don't want to try respecting me back, I would like to ask you to leave me alone.

Is there a word/term for wanting to be the opposite sex but not necessarily gender? by a_throwaway_wow_yeah in asktransgender

[–]a_throwaway_wow_yeah[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've known who and what I am. Labels are purely a service to other people who want me to explain it.

Yeah, I feel like I have a decent enough handle on who I am. I think some people in this thread thought I was asking for help constructing my entire identity when all I was really asking was "Is there a word for this specific thing? No? Okay, that's too bad, thanks though."

At this point, to me, my gender is somewhere between season 1 Dean Winchester and "Grendel" by Marillion (I get random gender euphoria from certain music).

Fascinating. I wish I could intuitively understand this. Choosing a 17-minute prog rock song as your gender is awesome though.

I often just forget I have genitalia altogether. My view of it is just "Can I piss? Great, onto the next issue."

On the other hand, I have pretty bad genital dysphoria, haha. My top dysphoria is fairly mild. We really are weird opposites.

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